Lunging in side reins?

[Dreamchaser]

Dolly has been coming along so nicely in our dressage lessons. She's starting to bend nicely and is coming into an outline. My coach suggested I start lunging my horse once a week in side reins. I've always been anti-gadgets, but I also do really trust my coach as she has I have seen great progress in the short time she has been coaching me and she feels it would help us progress. Is there any harm in lunging a horse in side reins? Will they do any good for us?

[xxxkristinaxxx]

Personally I don't think there is any harm in using them. I use them on my pony because otherwise when lunging with no rider she just sticks her head out long, but with side reins she brings her head in and uses her back end more. So it helps to work the right muscles that they should be using.

[moonglow]

i use side reins nothing wrong with them :)

[Shadowlark]

I actually find them to be very counter productive. If you are trying to create a soft supple horse who bends.. why would you set their head with un yeilding side reins? But rather than rant for a bit.. I will just give you my fave links :)

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/gadgets.php#siderein


Consider a Chambone or DeGouge instead - they will actually help to soften dolly as well as encourage her to raise her back and engage the hind and by releasing preassure when she yeilds correctly.

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/gadgets.php#chambon

[Flony_Pony]

I personally prefer my pessoa, as Jess doesnt work nicely in side reins, she fights them. However Flo works beautifully in side reins and really works into them.

I think all gadget lunging wise is personal preference!!

[Nik-n-Kia]

I use the side reins both at the side and now as a replacement for my harbridge (which a friend borrowed and her dog chewed it :rolleyes:) while I wait for her to buy me a new one.

I find them a very useful tool as they are elasticated so not really 'rigid' the horse can still play with them as he would a contact.

Nikki xxx

[RachelEvent]

I won't lunge without sidereins.

They aren't a gadget per se - their purpose is to recreate the feel of the riders hands, and create a very steady contact for the horse to be able to work into. You can adjust the height and length depending on what you are trying to achieve - but never pull them so short that you are constricting the horse's neck.

My preference is for elasticated side reins - but not too elasticated, as then you don't get the consistency.

[gordysgirl]

I don't like them much tbh, much prefer my pessoa - my horse sets against side reins & leans on them.

[charlotte+jill!]

agree with rachelevent.

I wont lunge without sidereins/pessoa. (dont attually see the point without, all your doing is making your horse go round willynilly as they like)

But as stated by RE they must be fitted correctly :D im sure your instructor will tell/show you if you ask

[LMayhewtx]

I do hunter jumper, not dressage, but I try to lunge with side reins about once a week. (Although I haven't been doing it very regularly lately). My girl is built very downhill, and working with her butt tucked underneath her is really hard for her right now. The side reins made a very big difference very quickly - most noticably in upward transitions. I use the ones with the rubber donuts.

I also have found side reins very useful for dealing with spookiness. There's an evil forest along the round pen and the jump ring, where my girl often spooks. I find that if I longe her with the side reins past the spooky areas, she stays pretty calm, and continues to be calm in the scary areas when I ride through the area.

[Dreamchaser]

I won't lunge without sidereins.

They aren't a gadget per se - their purpose is to recreate the feel of the riders hands, and create a very steady contact for the horse to be able to work into. You can adjust the height and length depending on what you are trying to achieve - but never pull them so short that you are constricting the horse's neck.

My preference is for elasticated side reins - but not too elasticated, as then you don't get the consistency.

That was going to be my next question: which type of side reins are better? I know there are the elastic ones and then the ones with the donut and possibly other types.

That makes a lot of sense RachelEvent and sounds like exactly why my coach wants me to use them. I am not able to keep the most steady contact yet. My coach was hoping for me to find a way to work my horse into a contact without me getting in the way.

[pedilia]

I use sidereins when I lunge as I find all of mine work better in them

[Meovcorz]

Can someone post a link to a pessoa. what is it. or a chambon. I have bought a roller. But am interested in hearing more about these other types.

So Shadow lark, and Flony Pony, I don't really see how the pessoa or the chambon is any better than the side reins.

What is a Harbridge?

Shadow Lark, did you see at the bottom of that page they had about rider gadgets :D. I was laughing so hard.

[Dreamchaser]

I actually find them to be very counter productive. If you are trying to create a soft supple horse who bends.. why would you set their head with un yeilding side reins? But rather than rant for a bit.. I will just give you my fave links :)

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/gadgets.php#siderein


Consider a Chambone or DeGouge instead - they will actually help to soften dolly as well as encourage her to raise her back and engage the hind and by releasing preassure when she yeilds correctly.

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/gadgets.php#chambon

I actually do own a chambon, but found it didn't really do any good. She acted exactly the same as she would on the lunge without anything on her. Maybe I just had it on too loose?

[julia gulia]

I actually find them to be very counter productive. If you are trying to create a soft supple horse who bends.. why would you set their head with un yeilding side reins? But rather than rant for a bit.. I will just give you my fave links :)

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/gadgets.php#siderein


Consider a Chambone or DeGouge instead - they will actually help to soften dolly as well as encourage her to raise her back and engage the hind and by releasing preassure when she yeilds correctly.

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/gadgets.php#chambon

Completely agree.

[Cupcake]

I really dislike side reins, because I've only had bad results with them.
Try them if you like, and then make up your own mind.

[Nik-n-Kia]

[QUOTE=Meovcorz;1717862]
What is a Harbridge?
QUOTE]


A harbridge is this>>>>>>>>> http://www.hangmanshallequestrian.co.uk/shires-harbridge-training-aid-322-p.asp

I used it to help Kia with his topline after his injury and to cure him of his giraffe-ness after he hurt his leg.

Nikki xxxx

[fluffy_betty]

Ive used side reins and a chambon on my mare and had good results with both, however she started to lean on the side reins so I switched. With the chambon you can really see all her back muscles working and her belly lifting and she comes into a shape without anything pulling her nose in. So another vote for a chambon!

[Skib]

It depends what you want to do.
My experience is the same as Rachel and others. I wouldnt lunge without them because that is what I have been taught.
Side reins are a normal part of lunging equipment - used all the time by my classical RI, used by her when she taught me how to lunge and now used for lunging at another dressage school.

But training aids that go round the back end are a different matter because you are cueing the horse with extra pressure - and again that is not how I have been taught to school a horse.

Edited to add. In a later post someone talks about long lining - long lining one does not use side reins. I wrote the above assuming lunging was defined only as single line lunging.

[MPR]

I longe my miniature horse with two long lines. Each line is attached to one side of the halter. One line goes around his hind end below the butt and above the hock. This encourages him to get his hind end under himself and round up. If I just longe him the regular way with one line, he travels with his nose out and back hollow. I don't use side reins because I'm wanting to engage the hind end, rather that get a head set. It may work for some horses. My mini is just very resistant to traveling rounded, and the two line method is what works for him. :)

[Shadowlark]

You probably had it too loose, the average Chambon is "horse" sized which means our more cob sized horses are small for them. I knot up a bunch of the rope close to the buckle on the side before the crown piece to help it fit my smaller horses.


Just because something is used by your RI, or has been used traditionaly - doesn't mean it's the best solution. I think drawreins are among the very best examples of that. When we look at the evolution of horsemanship and ridding, it can only come via questioning and investigating the traditional.

Sidereins and drawreins both make your horse look pretty but don't necessarily do any real work to help build correct flexion, top line or yeilding. When I lunge I am FAR more interestead in what the back end is doing then the front.. because if the back end is working correctly, the front end will fall into place. Trap a horses head into place, and they will seek evasions such as leaning or traveling on the fore.. or they will work despite the constraints.

The links I posted go into the why as well as the negatives of several peices of auxilliary equipment that are commonly used. And include anatomical data etc.

[chunky monkey]

I do have a chambon, however I have never used it. But I was thinking about getting some side reins for lunging it has made me have a rethink though and maybe I will get the chambon out. They only thing I remember reading in one of my books is that a chambon should only be used by experienced lungers. Hence I haven't used it as I am be no means experienced in this field.

[Skyhuntress]

I'm a much bigger fan of bungees or a degogue/chambon then side reins for the very simple reason that side reins are static, bungees are elasticized, allowing more freedom of movement.

I used to always lunge in side reins-and they work, if you know how to use them-but the problem is that it tends to lock the head. If you get something like bungees or a degogue, it allows the horse to position his head where he wants with minimal pressure on the poll.

[Dreamchaser]

Just because something is used by your RI, or has been used traditionaly - doesn't mean it's the best solution. I think drawreins are among the very best examples of that. When we look at the evolution of horsemanship and ridding, it can only come via questioning and investigating the traditional.

Sidereins and drawreins both make your horse look pretty but don't necessarily do any real work to help build correct flexion, top line or yeilding. When I lunge I am FAR more interestead in what the back end is doing then the front.. because if the back end is working correctly, the front end will fall into place. Trap a horses head into place, and they will seek evasions such as leaning or traveling on the fore.. or they will work despite the constraints.

The links I posted go into the why as well as the negatives of several peices of auxilliary equipment that are commonly used. And include anatomical data etc.

Yes, I do agree Shadowlark. I know that just because it is popular, does not mean it is a good option, which is exactly the reasoning behind this thread. I am finally getting Dolly to where I want her and I would hate some gadget to ruin that. I do very much trust my current RI as she is very focused on Dolly using her hind end more and does in no way want to see my horse just pull her head in, but I will still make my own mind up about anything relating to my horse, judging whether it is really the right and best way.

My RI is bringing out a pair of side reins for our next lesson and she is going to start the lesson off by showing me how to properly use them. I need to see them in use before I make my decision about them.

I was also looking into vienna side reins, since Scarlett 001 was raving about them a while back. I actually think I will attempt to make a set of them this week and also see how Dolly feels about them.

You are probably right about the chambon. It likely is too big. I was thinking about trying to adjust it in some way to make it work. I was also thinking about being a bit handy and making it into a Degogue.

[Shadowlark]

LOL and THAT my dear, is why I bothered to answer your thread. I knew you would listen and take all options to heart and pick what suits you both.

I look forward to seeing and hearing more about her progress :)

[Dreamchaser]

Well, that is the reason I post thread asking for people's opinion. I want to hear the opinions of many people before I make my own mind up about something.

For the past two days I've been doing a bit of long reining before I ride. I have tried long reining before, but didn't really find it did much for Dolly. Now that Dolly is far more supple and moving under herself more, I found long reining to be very effective!

I also fashioned myself a set of vienna side reins after reading all about them. They sound like just the thing we need. They were very very simple to make and pretty cheap. I even managed to make them in a way that they will be adjustable, just in case I made them the wrong length. I haven't put them on Dolly yet, but I have high hopes for them!

And then my lesson with the side reins is on Thursday, so this week will be all about experimenting!

[Meovcorz]

So, what aobut side - reins with long reining - where one side rein is not pulled into the inside?

Sorry for hijacking your thread Dreamchaser.

[Skib]

Where you own your own horse, you can have the luxury of choices. But there are some of us on NR who have been taught to ride with many hours of lunge lessons - in my case and OH's always with side reins.
When riderless on the lunge with side reins a horse can buck and leap and let off steam.

So let's be clear: my personal experience is that properly used side reins do not prevent my lesson horse spooking. Nor charging off from halt to canter if something startles him. Nor turning its head to the inside or outside (bend), nor lowering its head nor raising it. Nor do they prevent it slouching along on the forehand, if the rider and lunger allow that.
If you have lunge lessons, you can feel alterations in quality of movement in the back and hind legs, according to how you ride. The contact is not established, nor the frame dictated by the side reins, otherwise I wouldn't learn anything in lessons. One can do leg yield, shoulder in with side reins. And you can collect and extend.
But they do, to some extent, mimic reins held by a rider, so the student can ride with no reins in their hands. Very good for my OH learning rising trot. But also good for giving priority to feeling and working the back legs of the horse.
About the only thing you cant do is let the horse relax and stretch by riding at the buckle.

I agree that one should not do something because it is the custom. But one should also never discard custom without enquiring the reason something has been done.

The principle comes from the Spanish riding school in Vienna where riders were taught on the lunge for a year. The two old pictures which I have of lunge lessons at the Spanish riding school show the advanced rider's hands off the reins and the side reins tighter than I have consented to ride.

What are Vienna side reins? How do they differ?
I am assuming that the use of side reins prevented the horses being made crooked by so much routine work on a single lunge line. Using side reins must have prevented the damage to the horse which is the reason it has been so strongly opposed by Monty Roberts. This opposition to single line lunging is characteristic of natural horsemanship.

I am a devotee of lunge lessons, taught in the classical way. I believe lunge lessons produce kind, securely seated riders with soft hands, and are therefore for the benefit of all horses. In order to give these lunge lessons to riders, horses too must be taught to be lunged on a single line. And since dressage centres do not waste money on unnecessary leather, the conclusion must be that regular lunging with no side reins will be detrimental to the horse.

[lorna01]

With regards to side reins... I use them from between the front legs very loosly to encourage the horse to stretch down and under (NOT Rollkur by any means) I also use a bandage from a roller or girth behind their quarters to encourage their quarters underneith, thorughly streatch their backs in the correct way, i.e. like a pessoa but with a true reward if they stretch correctly.
I never use them to the side untill they are older and trained correctly to collect.(Collecting too soon can cause unneccesary tension)

Chambons and the other gadgets never go near my horses, I feel that there isnt enough give and it is very alike rollkur and over bending, especially if used incorrectly, very damaging to muscles and frame work for riding (from my experiences with them.)

My horses are much happier like this and work freely as asked to do so, I find alot of gadgets to be very forcefull and not giving to reward the horse.

Give it a thought, try everything and find what works for you

Best of luck XX

[Shadowlark]

As someone who has in the past used them - a lot Skib, I can tell you that I get far more out of my session either as a rider or on the ground with the Degauge or Chambon on. The time they save me in the horses understanding, as well as the riders is well worth the work they do.

It is a choice I make for me and my horse due to the research and experimentation I have done with my own horses, as an instructor and as a competitor. It is my very nature to question things, and see if I can find a way to better accomplish them. Handily for me, Sustainable Dressage seems to have found the same results I have saving me time in explaining my why's.

[kaytenherponies]

I personally am not a person for any gadgets of any description. However I always use side reins for lunging, and do not see them as a training aid, more of a replacement for rein contact. I think it gives the horse something to work into. I attach them to the highest ring on the side of the roller. If you keep the horse moving forward nicely there is no reason to think they will fall on the forehand. And by keeping them clipped higher you are not pinning the head, but using them to encourage them to use themselves.

[lorna01]

I would advise anyone to read Dr. Gerd Heuschman's book... Tug of War: Classical versus "Modern" Dressage

This book will explain my reasons for not using any quick fix gadgets for love nor money...There is no reason to ever use short cuts when training a horse...A lot of instructors or trainers like to say it doesnt matter how you get there so long as it works...My horses mean a lot more to me than that and I would rather spend 10 years training my horses through a correct method that is kinder and will build them up correctly rather than get there by what ever means necessary and possibly harming my horses physically & mentally.

Have think about it...another good one to read is Mary Wanless...Ride with your mind...Some thing for everyone to think about these days in my opinion

Best of luck XX

[Dreamchaser]

What are Vienna side reins? How do they differ?


These are Vienna side reins:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Cajunblue/Ned%20Devine/DSC_0063.jpg

They are supposed to encourage the horse's head to come down without the resistance of normal side reins. They are more suggesting to the horse and do not force anything. They are meant to be loose and the horse is free to move their head where they want.

[kaytenherponies]

These are Vienna side reins:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/Cajunblue/Ned%20Devine/DSC_0063.jpg

They are supposed to encourage the horse's head to come down without the resistance of normal side reins. They are more suggesting to the horse and do not force anything. They are meant to be loose and the horse is free to move their head where they want.


So bit like draw reins then???????

Have never come across these before :)

[Dreamchaser]

So, I've come back to report my findings!

I made a set of vienna reins. It didn't end up costing me very much and I liked them in theory. I only ended up using them once. I didn't mind them exactly and I think they might possibly have use in the future, but for now, they aren't what I need.

I didn't even put a pair of side reins on Dolly. I gave it lots of thought and realised there was no point. I know I'll hate them without even trying them. They are too restricting and I do not want to undo all of the good I have been doing recently with my horse. She's coming into a lovely frame when I ride her. I'd hate some gadget to force her into something and ruin what we have under saddle.

So, my third option was long reining. Its funny, I actually did attempt to long rein her before, but at the time, I didn't see the need for it. And now, I do. I had a lesson which didn't go very well, where my coach suggested I use side reins. I attempted long reining that week and in my very next lesson my coach commented on how amazing Dolly was looking!

What I hated about everything else I tried was just how little control I had over her while lunging, which was not the case with long reining. So, I've spent the last while long reining in combination with plenty of flatwork under saddle. It has seemed to get us over the issues I was having when my coach suggested I use side reins and so I've stopped long reining for now, but I bet it'll come handy in the future!

P.S. You may all look forward to pictures from me very soon of Dolly and I and our huge transformation in our flatwork. I barely am able to believe I own the same horse!

[BeachRiding]

Yay! another Long-reining convert! :) Good luck with everything, I am finding a MASSIVE change in Pete with just a couple sessions.

[fishiz3434]

i use side reins with elastic so that there is no jabbing in the mouth when i lunge, i do this once a fortnight, nothing wrong with once a week tho i just don't have the time and like riding more than lunging :P