me again ... what now?

[notpoodle]

angel's turnout is still rather restricted. she's only out at night, 2-3 times a week (stopped turning her out every night a couple of weeks ago as i was worried it would be too much). field isnt bit, theres hardly anything in it ...

the last couple of days she has been a bit of a pain to ride. very lazy and somewhat nappy :o (this is in the school)

it didnt feel like the sort of behaqviour she showed whenever she did have lami. when she did have LGL she would threaten to buck when asked to trot and kept pigrooting her head down.

she didnt do any of these things this week, she just didnt want to go. i asked someone at the yard to tell me if she looked in any way sore or lame. the lady said she didnt but that pony did look a bit like it was desperate for the loo:confused: (she wasnt eg she didnt pee or poo after riding. thats the pony, not the lady!)

hooves werent warm, no pulses to be found either and she trotted up fine on the yard.

shes gone out tonight. i think i will try lunging her without tack tomorrow and see if she is the same then?

aaaaaargh

julia
x

[martini55]

Was she lethargic? Could it be due to her feeling the heat?

[notpoodle]

very lethargic! mind you, she was also lethargic when i rode in the rain the other day (she hates riding in the rain in any case though and keeps sticking her bum in the wind, whether this means she will stay on the track or not!).

im just baffled. normally after 3 days of no turnout (she last went out monday night before today!) she would normally be somewhat speedy :o

and no change in hoof temperature before and after riding at all :confused:

her back and tack should be fine ... that hasnt changed and we have a treeless saddle. and usually, if her back isnt right, she will tell me in no uncertain terms when i tack up :o

the two other lami ponies (both very prone, one has cushings) are doing ok in that field at the moment (but im paranoid and careful because angel is not those other two horses of course! they could be lucky, she might not be!)

will see how she lunges tomorrow and report back ...

Julia
x

[kturner]

we had a lovely time with our mad ADHD teenage pony the other day. He was so quiet, would hardly walk on the lunge, because of the heat. So I put his novice sharer on. He normally gallops everywhere at full speed and I always have the leadrope on her.

She was cuddling him without getting bitten, had a lovely quiet walk on him. They both fell asleep with her on him bareback laying on him in the stable. Great. I am glad summer is here, as he is a loonatic in normal weather.

Roll on summer.

[martini55]

I would always be careful regarding her feet. But it could be something completely unrelated. If it's any consolation, the other day I went to longrein Martini and she wasn't up for it at all. Now she isn't on any grass at the mo so lami is a definite no-no. I just think it was the heat and I can't blame her for not being in the mood to work. We went for a nice walk up the drive instead, which she was happy enough to do.

[notpoodle]

@kateturner: i prefer the docile variety too :D angel is always overall docile though. sometimes you get a random burst of energy/competitiveness when she wants to canter round and round and round until she gets bored with it, but usually all good!

@ martini: this whole lami thing is turning me into nervous wreck/hapless bundle of paranoia. im forever feeling up her hooves and whatnot :o

she hardly goes out at the moment ... her poos are fine (started watching that too since i notice the other lami pony makes green sludge poos before she comes down with lami), all shes getting is soaked hay a handful of hi-fi lite with pink powder, magox and half a spoon of global herbs pollenex in it ... icant see her getting lami from that ... this is all so crazy!

doesnt look like its her breathing woes either (thats the second thing i investigated), as that seems ok at the moment (i gave her the ventilin anyway though .. you never know)

Julia
x

[kturner]

sounds like you are doing everything right. I worry when mine gets slow as well, my first thought is too much grass. He has had it 6 times and pedal bones dropped last two times.

I decide from day to day, if he is staying in at night, good grass during the day with muzzle or lean paddock without. My field mates owner is so fed up with me she doesnt know where mine is going to be. Sometimes in the morning I will tell her he can stay out that night, and when I get there at the end of the day, if he is looking tired or full from grass or sun, never sure which, I put him in.

Next morning she just frowns at me and shakes her head. But I would rather be safe than sorry.

Two weeks ago he was biting me to get in the stable for his hay because he was hungry. This week on better grass he has been a lot quieter and slower, which worries me again.

Today I decided they had eaten it so short, that tomorrow we are moving the tape up by 6 foot.

Constant worry. Just have to do our best and live with the consequences knowing we are doing a lot better than those that dont care.

[notpoodle]

hers is a lean paddock :o but then short grass is meant to be dangerous too :o ideally id remove the last blade of grass from the thing and feed her nothing but hay .... albeit, thats not possible ...

julia

x

ps: such a worry, isnt it?

[magicalmac]

she hardly goes out at the moment ... her poos are fine (started watching that too since i notice the other lami pony makes green sludge poos before she comes down with lami),

Julia
x[/QUOTE]

OMG Ive just gone all paranoid again-my lami shettie has just started doing those sort of poos I put it down to a drastic change of diet now Im worrying again. I hate this.

[notpoodle]

lunged very briefly this morning ... she seemed perfectly fine and even cantered a couple of times when nobody told her to :o

hooves not warm before or afters ...

Julia
x

[kturner]

Must just be the heat then.

Moved the tape out for ours this morning and then worried all day that I had moved it too far, so he's in tonight, just in case.

It is a merrygoround!

[mogadoga]

she hardly goes out at the moment ... her poos are fine (started watching that too since i notice the other lami pony makes green sludge poos before she comes down with lami),

Julia
x

OMG Ive just gone all paranoid again-my lami shettie has just started doing those sort of poos I put it down to a drastic change of diet now Im worrying again. I hate this.[/QUOTE]

Could well be the feed change, alex's change all of the time due to eating more hay or grass through the week. Unless you find the vital pulse etc then i would say it is down to the feed change :)

[notpoodle]

had a little ride in the school on saturday ... she wasn't keen :o

hooves aren't warm or anything still .... i'm still baffled :confused:

might try her on a hack to see if she perks up then ... she could be bored in the school.

Julia
x

[kturner]

when is the last time she had laminitis? there is a young girl on another thread saying that hers is bucking on corners in the school but not on the straight.

after lami a lot buck because they are sore and altough may not be big bucks, they are still trying to tell you to get off.

they are very sore on a tight circle when they have lami, and although we think they are better on a small circle, on a larger circle with weight on it can make them sore again.

mine got it last feb and pedal bones dropped, got better around about september but was still bucking till november and that was with a lightweight child in walk only. did loads of stable work in winter and started riding two weeks ago. no bucking at all. I think he just needed longer to get 100% better.

[eventerbabe]

so, when she's not turned out is she in a stable or a sand paddock? i'm just wondering if she's maybe feeling a little stiff and bumbly? bonnie got like that after box rest.

[notpoodle]

she last had it diagnosed in february.

there was a mild thing a few weeks back but by the time the vet came he declared her absolutely fine (i had kept her in for a few days when i had the feeling something wasnt quite right, that seemed to do the trick. not sure if it even was LGL).

she could be stiff ... but usually she's always been perfectly fine after being in :confused:

she went out overnight last night. friend got her in this morning saying she was a bit slow to come in :o

will check tonight.

the weather is driving me insane. i would really like her to be out 24.7 again soon (in this pretty bare little field with 4 others ....), because her sweet itch is so bad when she is in.

it feels like i can do whatever i can (she's slim, she's fit, the field is bare, she is restricted ....), but it feels like im just waiting for the lami to come back regardless of what i do. its doing my head in.

Julia
x

Ps: @ eventerbabe: she is in the stable as we don't have a suitable sandpaddock. there is a dirtpaddock where they can go for a bit under supervision but i can't use it for her in the summer as she will take out the rickety fencing trying to scratch.

when she is stabled she does get exercised pretty much every day though.

[AengusOg]

Is she eating and dunging (pooing) as normal?

[notpoodle]

yep, she's having her soaked hay/hi fi lite as usual and makes rather magnificent poos of perfect size and consistency :p

Julia
x

[eventerbabe]

and when she had laminitis in feb, was it full blown leaning back on heels laminitis or are we talking LGL? another thought, if they are/have been in pain and have been compensating it can often put something out. it may even be slight depression, not uncommon if she's having issues with laminitis and sweet itch.

[notpoodle]

she's only eer had the LGL variety, as i never left it long enough for her to do 'the stance' etc. eg i always caught it very early and she never needed more than 2-3 weeks boxrest. she was x-rayed when she had it the first time (which was the worst one i think), no rotation or anything.

she may well be depressed! she's stuck inside A LOT, she's itchy as hell, no other horses she can see are in ...

Julia
x

[eventerbabe]

it could well be depression. bonnie got like that when kept in an internal box and not seeing another horse til toby came back in overnight. is angel one for toys? has she got something like a boredom breaker? or you can get those new toys where you pop veg onto a metal bar for them to knaw at.

[kturner]

so exactly what is the problem because I have re-read this and it seems she is ok to ride, offers canter, etc. on one day she was tired but the other posts she seems ok?

is she lethargic or lame?

maybe she is depressed and needs turnout with friends and to have a more normal life. You may have to just bite the bullet, and think about her quality of life, by that I mean, being in and not allowed to mix much, may be affecting her behavior.

I have decided now to give mine as much turnout as I dare, so he can have a normal life if possible. Lami will probably get him in the end, but he has to be happy until that time.

I stable a few nights a week and let him out days and some nights alternating between muzzle in the day on better grass and no muzzle on very little at night. He was biting because he was not happy and was hungry. It is not really what is in their stomaches only, they have need to chew whatever little grass you allow and play with others.

I definately dont want mine getting it again, dont get me wrong, but I cant have him stabled, on his own in lami paddocks, etc and MISERABLE for the next 20 years, so I am trying now to make his remaining years fun, whether that be 3 or 20 years. He is only 10 now.

I dont want him to get it again, and I am doing what I can to make sure, but I have to have his mental welfare in the equasion as well.

Not sure how this is coming across, but he has been alone nearly 18 months due to lami and others getting haylage in winter, which he is not allowed. Now he has been with a shetland friend for nearly 2 months, and he is so much happier. He has had 6 years of stabling, limited turnout, and not often having friends.

It is better for him to have a shorter happier life than a long miserable one. Still keep as much restrictions in place to keep him safe though.

Does this make sense, hope I dont sound like I dont care, I have spent many weeks sleeping on his stable floor, watching him in pain, I DO CARE. Just need to keep him HAPPY as well.

[notpoodle]

@ kate ... the problem is that she's been very uncooperative in the schoo, for the last couple of weeks (eg not wanting to go forward at all. someone likened it to her looking like she is desperate for a poo eg she isnt lame or looks footsore but doesnt look right, either).

as for boredom breakers ... tried most of those a few years back ... the ball she emptied in two minutes flat, then kicked it into the waterbucket, the swede she ripped to shreds in about 60 secs, any sort of likit gets demolished, apples in the watertrough she located and removes in a second, veg on a string will be gone very fast ... she's a smart cookie :o

she doesnt seem stressed or miserable in her stable and is always keen to go back in (weird little lady that she is ...).
Julia
x

ps: *edit*

i do know what you mean about the quality of life issue. trouble is she is so blo*y lami prone she managed to get it twice in the winter, when she only went out 4 hours max and not even every day .... if she gets it again she wont be able to go out at all for a longer stretch of time than she spends indoors at the moment. she is going out at night times every other night and today she went out for the day for the first time this year, so she isnt cooped up all the time, but overall spends more time in than out at the moment ....

[kturner]

my boy loves his stable too, lord knows he has spent enough time in it, he would prefer to be in especially in bad weather. He would much prefer to stay in some mornings and it is a fight to get his head collar on and drag him out to the field. they do confuse us dont they.

If she's not lame, dont get yourself so stressed and worry about what might be. I know that is harder to do than say. 4 hours during the day and maybe a few other hours here and there should be an adequate minimum. Some horses stay in for 6 months in winter day and night and only get exercise when ridden. (I dont agree with yards like that though, but the horse seem to get used to it). I am sure ost would prefer to be out if possible.

Is there an area without too much grass that she can stay out on more and just give her hay and hi fi lite to fill her up. Maybe that area you mentioned that the fence is no good. Could you fix up that area. Could one of the other laminitics be company for her in there and split the hay bill.

Mine is going to be in for four nights now because it is going to rain and that sets off his nose running and coughing. He will go out with a rug for short spells during the day. He has had such illness in the past that I am careful with the rain as well. Cant win, it is either the lami, grass too little or not enough, copd, rain, sweetitch (flies and midgies).

Just keep doing your best and keep her with company and out as much as you can.

My fell mare was very sluggish after her last foal was weaned and we got her. We called the vet and he put her on a blood boosting tonic powder as she was anaemic. It is the same stuff they give to thouroughbreds for racing.

She went like a rocket the next day, my daughter was pleased and I was horrified.

Could the vet take blood and make sure it is not something llike this which is the underlying cause and then you could stop worrying about the lami so much.

What about a muzzle to give you peace of mind.
If she had little grazing when she got lami before , there may be another cause and not grass.

I have mine on Top Spec Anti lam everymorning before going on the grass just to make sure as a preventative.

I had better go and fetch the little blighter in now, because I can see clouds out of the window and if he gets wet he'll get a cold straight away. We had coughing last week because of the pollen and dust, they were cutting the fields next door. Rain this week.

[notpoodle]

''She went like a rocket the next day, my daughter was pleased and I was horrified.''

-> that made me laugh! you're like me :p

the mudpaddock really isnt suitable to leave anything in there unsupervised, unfortunately. it wouldnt be safe and i cant re-fence the whole thing (cant stick electric stake in there because its concrete, basically), so that one's a no-no.

the field she's in is a bare one and not very big (maybe an acre?! there's 4 of them out ...), so would probably qualify as a lean paddock.

she went out in the day yesterday and was fine in the evening, so she went out again this morning. if i keep up the exercise regime .... fingers crossed. she really is in nice condition. she does seem perkier hacking out, maybe she was just a bit bored with the school...

with blood tests, we've had several done not long ago ... but the vet advised against testing for cushings or EMS, because the results are very inconclusive and she displays no other signs of either.

julia
x

[kturner]

sounds like the bare paddock and hay, with hacking out.

Our mare got pretty fed up with schooling and went much better on hacks. At 20 she wouldnt even move on the lunge, she just didnt see the point, it was as if she was saying "been there, done that, 18yrs ago".

She had been used for eventing and had foals before we got her. But she decided she wanted to do cross country and hacking, but wasnt doing schooling or lunging anymore. Well at that age you have to respect their wishes a little as she had given all her whole life.

I didnt try lunging again, but did school about twice a month, just to stay boss, she didnt seem to mine that, as long as it was only occassionaly. She was a fell and very stubborn.

Stick to hacking for a while.

I've got my little un out 24/7 now in the bare paddock and on two meals and a little hay. He is going on the good grass muzzled from 7 till 2. He is much happier with this arrangement.

[laceyfreckle]

i would completely agree with kturner.

Lacey is probably not as restricted as some laminitics because living a complete laminitc's lifestyle would mean she'd be miserable (and her life shortened because of this as i couldn't keep her miserable, it wouldn't be fair and that would be worse then her getting lami again.

good luck with her thoug i;m sure you;re doing the best things already:)

[kturner]

laceyfreckle - I am glad you agree with me, I sometimes feel I may come across wrong, it is hard to explain when you are typing it.

At least you let yours out as well, and agree a short happy life is better than a long miserable one.

It is so difficult, because we blame ourselves when they get it, and I suppose we are in charge of what they eat, so it is ultimately our responsibility.

As they are grass eating animals, it seems so unfair to stop them having it, but we have to ???? :mad: It is like not allowing a child to have anything when sitting in McDonalds. Where does good and bad parenting stand with a horse which is " allergic" to its main staple diet???

[notpoodle]

i only have the field. which is quite bare but not entirely bare and i cant out hay in there because there's other people's horses in it (and one of the other parties is not prepared to chip in) and angel isnt meant to have dry hay (cant access haylage, no car!) in the first place :o

mind you, she seemed fine after 2 days out (eg in the day only) and, after a little dispute about the fact that we will be going where i say we're going at a speed chosen by me ..., she went quite nicely in the school last night.

shes going out overnight tonight ... fingers crossed.

@ kate turner: love the mcdonalds comparison! thats exactly it! it seems so wrong to deny them their staple diet! lami is such a design flaw, really!

Julia
x

[kturner]

If there is not too much grass anyway and four of them are on it and they need hay for extra feed, then surely there cant be TOO MUCH grass! She should be OK out 24/4 without hay or feeds.

If the some of the other owners want to give extra hay then there cant possibly be too much grass, and if one owner doesnt want to give hay then she obviously thinks there is enough grass for hers and doesnt want to overload with extra feed.

I will take pics of my paddocks tomorrow for you to compare, although all horses needs are different, it might give you an idea.

[notpoodle]

thats the thing, its so hard to tell when its too much grass/grass too stressed/whatnot. the other little pony in her field (out 24/7) has just come back in with sore feet AGAIN (about the 4th time since may!) :o

angel seems to be doing really well going out a bit more now though! she has perked up riding-wise and we had a lovely hack round fields this morning where she seemed to think she had been reincarnated as a TB :p chomping at the bit, cantering around the field quite merrily. we had a lovely time!!

Julia
x

[kturner]

sounds like you've cracked it then, more turnout, but continue to exercise to keep the weight off.

Looks like she's enjoying her riding as well. Well done you. Keep it up.

You can put her in the odd day or night just to make yourself feel better as well.

We moved the tape to give ours a little more grass this morning, and I took them off at 2pm from 9am when we moved it.

Bottom lips were on the ground, they were so full and tired. Will remove them at 2pm for another 3 days, and then it should be short enough to leave them on till 5 or 6pm. I love the calmness I get with him when he is full.

Probably wont sleep for worrying tonight though. They are on the 25% grass paddock everynight.

I hope he is calm again tomorrow and I will try to get my courage up to ride him. He is an ex-games pony and goes from stand to gallop whilst your leg is only half over. My daughters always used to just vault on, never made him stand still. I've got him standing and walking in the last few weeks. He still jangles my nerves if he speeds up though. He's 11.3 and I'm disabled. He is very hard to balance on. Far too quick for me. Shouldnt really be on him, thats why I wait till he is really quiet. Cant sell him though. His 11yr old sharer is away for the weekend so I have him to myself.

[notpoodle]

had another lovely ride this morning. she was fine on the little hack, but when i took her in the school she tried to make a beeline straight out the gate again and we went down the long side in an amusing banana shape :o

i'll try to leave her out altogether towards the end of the week i think ...

(going on holiday on the 29th for a week and it'd be a lot easier for my two pony-sitters if she stayed out)

Julia
x

[kturner]

mine is very footsore today on the gravel going out for a walk. Really worries me a lot because we moved there tape to give them more yesterday. They went on 9 to 2pm yesterday and 7 to 2pm today.

Think it may have been a bit much for him, so he is in tonight and on the short one for a few days before I put him back on long one. Other option is to put him on long one with friend, but to put muzzle on.

He was not sore on the road, but kept stopping and wanted to walk on the verge instead of tarmac. Not lame, on gravel, but again pulling to soft grass on side.

Just enough to worry me. After a day or two of less grazing will try him on gravel in yard again. He is fine on the flat concrete, so we should be ok.

Fingers crossed, because next time is probably last time.

[notpoodle]

oh dear, im sorry to hear that. at least you caught it early and he'll probably be okay after a couple of days indoors ....

Julia
x

[kturner]

OK this morning, but I am afraid I will be using his muzzle everyday and in at night for the whole week. Next week I will leave it off everyother day. At least he can still be out!!

Of course this was a great time for the YO to tell me they are running out of hay and I have to get my own till the winter load arrives.

He only used one every 10 to 14 days. Depends how much he is in.

I will walk him on the gravel every second day to check him, dont want to make him go on it every day. He has flat soles and no shoes to raise him up, but farrier is happy to leave him barefoot. He doesnt do a lot of roadwork anyway.

[kturner]

notpoodle -

this is the 25% bare field for night time with no muzzle.

http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk223/cammacbusby/?action=view&current=PICT0007.jpg

there is enough to nibble on.

in this next pic, is the same field, then another one in the middle the same, both are winter fields that dont grow very fast and never get fertilized. The far field, is partitioned with tape now, for the two lamis to go in with or without muzzles during the day. Will get a close up of that this evening. I was too sore to walk to it this morning, pulled my shoulder at the weekend. Will do it today. Promise.

http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk223/cammacbusby/?action=view&current=PICT0008.jpg

[notpoodle]

thanks, will look at your pics tonight (my work has banned photobucket!!!) and make some of pony's field, too! basically ours is an acre (maybe two?!) of not much grass and a load of dockweeds/thistles/whatnot.

Julia
x

[kturner]

Your field sounds perfect.

Good news for us but dont want to make it too long. We are on very,very steep hills with nowhere to ride. No bridle ways within walking distance for his bare, droppedsoles feet.

Found a new place today and moving in 2 weeks. A girl with a farm and 3 empty stables and 50 acres off road riding and fields. She is bringing her horse home and just wants company, so although he is 16 hands and will want more grass than mine, I can muzzle mine in the day and we can make paddocks whatever size we want as her dad is fencing off for her. He is building her a school as well!!! Cant believe my luck , it is cheaper than where we are but that will get taken up in petrol as it is further.

Lets hope nothing goes wrong because I have given notice where I am today.
I didnt take the pics tonight because we had to go see new place and were in a rush today.

Hope all is well your end. Taking Busby's muzzle back off tomorrow as he is OK I was just panicking I think.

[notpoodle]

your new place sounds great!

our field is weird in that one pony keeps getting lami and everyone else is dropping weight :o (well, angel isnt dropping weight, hers is nice and steady but then she isnt living out all the time at the moment)

Julia
x

[kturner]

I have buyers remorse. Panicking now about if I have done the right thing. There are so many threads about broken legs!!!!!

Mine is only 11.3 and his new partner will be 16.2. Have increased his insurance in case of any settling problems.

I also have to worry that they will cut the grass and fence off before we get there. I have given notice already. I will take my strimmer down if they havent cut it, and he can go in at night, and muzzle in the day, he should be OK with that.

I will have to see what the splint bones broken and other broken legs says about when to PTS and when not too.

Another new worry. I would rather give birth to my two kids again, than keep going through this every week, one thing and another.

(Having a bad day)

[notpoodle]

who has broken their leg?
wouldnt worry too much about the 11hh with the 16hh. in our field we have a tiny little section A and a 'big horse' arab (not sure how big but def well over 15hh i would say. mind you, anything over 13hh looks BIG to me!!). its actually the little section A that's picking on the big one :eek: he just stands there, with a worried look on his face waiting for someone to rescue him (usually angel!) and get the little critter off him!!


finally got round to field pictures ... cant photobucket though because im at work :o

it does look overall green-ish but half it it (by the gate) is more dried mud than anything else, the rest is overall green but grass is very short and quite a few 'mudgaps' in it, plus various clusters of dockweeds and stuff. you can *just* see the white electric fence in the background.

and excuse angel's tatty get-up in the first picture! she's still wearing the ripped old boett because she wont have the new one on when shes still coming in the stable (for she will shred it on the doorframe!)

Julia
x

[kturner]

that looks perfect for lamis. do you give a meal or hay as well? that is what my nightime one without muzzle looks like. other one he gets muzzle on.

[notpoodle]

shes currently in overnight with 2 soaked slices of hay (she never finishes that though, theres always a bit left). she gets a token hi-fi lite feed but tends to leave most of that because she hates the global herbs stuff that goes in it :o

Julia
x

[kturner]

Have you tried a little garlic to hide the global herbs. If I put too much garlic he leaves it as well, otherwise he will eat any medicines or wormers that you want to put in it. He is a greedy little ***. He would eat three big water buckets of hi fi lite, when the hay was short and then go and sleep for hours.

I will have to see how short the new field is going to be when we move, and have to change everything again. When to put in, when to muzzle etc,.

[notpoodle]

she hates garlic :p

have tried mint powder, she didnt fall for that one either. dissolving the whole concoction in speedibeet didnt do anything either. madame is a fussy little gourmet :o

Julia
x

[kturner]

try to make your own applesauce from liquidised or mashed apples?

slice small they cook quicker
microwave in a little water
mash
put in tupperware with medi and cross fingers.