Training a Youngster

[pengapenga]

I am currently working with my young foal (8months) getting her to lead etc. All is going well until now:rolleyes:

Here is the scenario........

I have moved her into a larger paddock to get into the paddock we have to walk down a laneway - which is not very wide but wide enough for handler and horse to walk down. Now taking her there is not a problem she leads like a pro, she gets lots of praise and is rewarded with a rub down her forehead or a scritch on the withers. However on the return journed she turns into a troll!!! Really strong and very very bargey:mad: yesterday she pushed me right into the fence! Once we are out of the lane way she really behaves like a troll on the rampage. She will not stand and goes around and around me. She will eventually stand quietly and will lead alright after that. Today I did some leading before going down the laneway and she led very nicely down the laneway when she was getting a bit bargey she was reprimanded and she behaved however just towards the end of the laneway she started to barge and I managed to reprimand her and get her to lean away off of me. Once out in the open again she behaved like a troll running right over me - luckily I did not go down and she got reprimanded and asked to back up (which she does usually with the jiggle of the leadrope) she backed up and then reared and started the circle thing again - this time I would not let her stop on her terms but on mine. Once she was standing quietly I led her into her yard no problems.

What can I do to improve her leading? Any help and suggestions would be gratefully recieved:)

[laceyfreckle]

what you are doing:)

my 7 month old foal is exactly the same, the backing up is good. i think its just a case of them trying to push the boundaries a bit

[posie]

you do everything i'd suggest i'm afriad!! sounds like you are on the right path with clear boundries - now persistance is needed.... good luck!

[Jen_e_Jen]

I agree w/the above. You are doing the right things, sometimes it just takes a bit longer w/babies. Just make sure she respects your space, don't let her crowd you EVER! For a bit my boy liked to go straight up, and I would pull him back down and back him all over. Everything I've read and been told says that it asserts your dominance and kicks their mind into thinking mode.

[pengapenga]

Thanks:) It has been a long time since I have worked with a youngster and I thought I may be missing something:o

Persistance it is then! Why can't she just be like her dad too lazy to think of being a troll:p

[TiggerthePony]

As the others say it sounds like you are doing what you should, persistance and consistancy are the key, you have to be consistant with what you do each time. My boy is now 3 and has started getting stubborn! I've had him since he was 6 months and it's taken him this long to start testing me, I think they all do at some point just some earlier than others!

How is she with food? Would clicker training help at all so she gets big reward when she does good?

[AengusOg]

I don't agree with reprimanding horses, particularly in this sort of instance............it's far better to correct silently (with a halter), then give much praise when the horse exhibits good behaviour.

Reprimanding her will only upset her.......I always maintain that harsh use of the voice just serves to further compound the problem. Horses respond best to calm encouragement, which helps them to recognise when they have done well.

It's usually fear which causes people to reprimand with the voice, and horses pick up on that very quickly.

Remember this is a toddler you're dealing with. She is acting purely instinctively, and not out of spite or badness.

Foals have a very short attention span, and no idea what is required of them until they have been taught (by repetition) how to behave.



:)

[laceyfreckle]

I don't agree with reprimanding horses, particularly in this sort of instance............it's far better to correct silently (with a halter), then give much praise when the horse exhibits good behaviour.

Reprimanding her will only upset her.......I always maintain that harsh use of the voice just serves to further compound the problem. Horses respond best to calm encouragement, which helps them to recognise when they have done well.

It's usually fear which causes people to reprimand with the voice, and horses pick up on that very quickly.

Remember this is a toddler you're dealing with.

Foals have a very short attention span, and no idea what is required of them until they have been taught (by repetition) how to behave.

She is acting purely instinctively, and not out of spite or badness.

:)

afraid i'd have to disagree:D

my toddlers are treated exactly like my foal:D;) both my toddlers will wait at a road and not cross it until i get there. (they are 2 and 1) not because they fear my actions but because they respect me and they know very clearly what is right and what is wrong. at a young age it is best to make things black and white. children and foals like consistency and to a degree authority/leadership.

if my foal encroaches into my space then yes my body language changes to ask her to back off. if she bites me i'm afraid she does get shouted at.

neither child or foal is trying to be 'bad' i agree but both need to be shown/told what is expected.

i will always be the leader:p (at least til they've grown up and can make decisions for themselves, then i'll just offer guidance.

btw i don't need to wallop either child or foal (unless they're doing something VERY dangerous) in part because they know what is expected of them. obvouisly expectations increase as does their age.

ETA: one thing that makes me cringe with kids in particular are those parents who praise their kids for NOT biting someone that day :P but refuse to tell their child it is not acceptable when they do.

every action has a reaction

good=praise/reward
bad= reprimand of some form (verbal, body language etc)

[pengapenga]

I reprimand by body language. If I have to use voice then it is a simple no in a deeper voice. In this instance she was asked not to barge by me putting my arm in front of her chest, she ignored the cue so was asked to stop and back up using just a jiggle of the lead rope. The praise is not excessive either mostly done silently with a smile on my face and a rub down hers. My trainer says that, and I think it has some truth in it especially after seeing him work with a horse, horses read facial expressions very well so if you are not happy with them make a grumpy face and vice versa!

However there are some instances as laceyfreckle has pointed out when a louder voice needs to be used.

Tiggerthepony she is very food orientated (that would be the friesian coming out in her:p) but at this stage I don't want her to think of food as a reward. I have done clicker training with her sire and he responded very very well!

[dizzybee]

Reading this thread has given me food for thought about a yearling I have just got thanks peeps sound advice as usual

[cwb]

While I would prefer to have a horse respect my space through gentle training and positive reward, I have no hesitation in a good hard punch in the chest or on the shoulder if they are going to trample me - after all, if they did that in the herd they would be double barrelled to teach them manners.

Scully had a moment the other day while I was leading her to the field, one of the other horses going out broke free from his handler and charged past us, so I swung Scully round into a side lane and then had to turn her during which she managed to stand on my foot - a quick punch in the shoulder and she moved instantly away.

[AengusOg]

While I would prefer to have a horse respect my space through gentle training and positive reward, I have no hesitation in a good hard punch in the chest or on the shoulder if they are going to trample me - after all, if they did that in the herd they would be double barrelled to teach them manners.

Scully had a moment the other day while I was leading her to the field, one of the other horses going out broke free from his handler and charged past us, so I swung Scully round into a side lane and then had to turn her during which she managed to stand on my foot - a quick punch in the shoulder and she moved instantly away.

But you should have been more careful and kept your foot out from under hers..........or perhaps it was a total mistake on her part.

Why assault her in either case? I genuinely would like to know the answer. :)

[kestrel]

Hi all
I've been starting my youngster (he's just turned 3) since Feb this year. He's quite cheeky at times & used to be a bit bargy. I did lots of groundwork with him & took him for walks. Now he leads nicely (although when the grass under his feet is really tempting he might try to snatch a mouthful). Generally he handles nicely. Coming from a previous owner who spoilt him with polos & never disciplined him, it's pleasing to have a 2way respectful relationship with this horse.
If he needs reprimanding i use 'no' firmly backed up with eye contact & body language. If he's really cheeky i lightly bump him with my forearm which is similar to how another horse would reprimand.
He's now being lightly ridden round the school with a friend leading us & he's doing brilliantly. I really believe that having developed a good trusting bond with him has made this process a whole lot easier for both of us.
Lots of daily consistant handling & responding to situations that arise in a calm reassuring manner without shouting & hitting can resolve most handling issues i reckon.

[Sexy Sietske]

You will never have a bargy, bad mannered, hard to lead horse unless you have a Nelson the Second :p Gosh he was rotten, jumped on you, biting, striking out, rearing up, crushing you into walls, spinning around 100mph, absolutely vile!!

2 weeks in a rope halter and he was an angel :p Any time he did anything wrong, back he went...waited for him to stop and relax then carry on. I dont think its a leading issue you have, i think its personal space and at the time Nelson thought personal space was his space :p Once that is established everything sort of falls into place and now we dont even need a halter to 'lead' him.

You need to make her think ahead of herself, so she learns 'if I do this wrong, *** is going to happen' if you get what I mean :o I believe alot of people have problems with horses because they get so used to telling them what to do that when a horse disagrees and gets 'punished' for it they lose all of respect for their leader, horses dont know how to be 'naughty' we humans are very fond of anthropomorphism :rolleyes:

[pengapenga]

SS she is definitely shaping up to be a Nelson:p

An update on my troll:p

On Friday she was a MEGATROLL:mad: but I think that was because I used a rope halter on her and she was not happy. She threw some mega tantrums, after a while when the penny dropped that she was not going to get away with her behaviour she stood quietly. I did some yeild work with her and some leading around the paddock before we tackled the laneway. She went down the laneway ok then tried to barge and spin around towards the end. She had to back out the last few steps and then behaved for the rest of her walk to the yard:rolleyes:

Yesterday she was a dream to lead:D No barging, striking and trying to kick me! As part of her handling yesterday we went up and down the laneway as calm as you please. She repeated this in the evening.

Ummmm this morning the MEGATROLL was back:rolleyes: she cowkicked me so was asked to back up and everytime she tried to come into my space she was asked to back up. Mmmm this was met with a tantrum, a few rears and a strike each time she was asked to back up. When she stood quietly she was asked to walk on and she got IT. If I am good we can walk on and if I am a troll I have to back up and stand still. We did the lane way nicely although she did barge through the gate to spin around and face me - she was again asked to back up and we then did going in and out of the gate in an orderly manner. Will see how she is this evening:rolleyes: Also this morning it is stormy and very windy so she was a very fresh young lady - once released into the paddcock she did some foalie acrobatics:)

As it always is with youngster 1 step forward and 6 backwards until the get it and are comfortable with it all:)

Usually she is a very sweet friendly little girl. Just at the moment she does not like to be told what to do. I want to get her really confident with leading so that we can tackle the next obstacle - Loading. Which I will get a professional trainer to do as I have a huge issue with loading:o