Advice on liver poisoning

[tillsmum]

Hi I have ahd the day from hell and need some practical advice. My mare went physco about a week ago and threw me off then threw herself on the floor while throwing enormous bucks and twists.
Since then she hasn't been eating and drinking properly so i got the vet out today and he saud she had a throat infection so gave her antibiotics and painkillers. He also took bloods to check weather the bucking fit was brought on by her tying up or something like that. Well he rang me this afternoon and the bloods have revealed that she has got a seriously damaged liver. Appaerntly the test should have read 20 and hers was 97. He said its not looking good but we can try giving her a low protein high energy feed and he can retest her and see if it has made any differnce but he isn't promising anything. Apparently her Ammonium levels are really high as well which proberly caused her to go physco as if affects them by making them go mad.
Have any of you experienced this before because I'm heartbroken. Is she in pain cause if she is I don't want to prolong the agony? What feed could I give her as never had to feed and low protein high energy feed before? What are her chances of getting better and will she be ridable again? I was in shock when the vet told me so forgot to ask all these questions.

Sorry its long any advice gratefully recieved even if its not good. I don't really want to rack up a massive vets and feed bill and still have a dead horse.

[lolahutt]

I think this is advice you need to get specifically from a vet. Call then first thing in the morning, even if someone gave well intentioned advice here, it is not something you want to get wrong, just to be on the safe side discuss it with your vet. I hope she gets through this, I worry about liver damage to Kazz as the meds she was on to save her life once, at the same time can cause fatal liver damage!

[suej]

Hi I have ahd the day from hell and need some practical advice. My mare went physco about a week ago and threw me off then threw herself on the floor while throwing enormous bucks and twists.
Since then she hasn't been eating and drinking properly so i got the vet out today and he saud she had a throat infection so gave her antibiotics and painkillers. He also took bloods to check weather the bucking fit was brought on by her tying up or something like that. Well he rang me this afternoon and the bloods have revealed that she has got a seriously damaged liver. Appaerntly the test should have read 20 and hers was 97. He said its not looking good but we can try giving her a low protein high energy feed and he can retest her and see if it has made any differnce but he isn't promising anything. Apparently her Ammonium levels are really high as well which proberly caused her to go physco as if affects them by making them go mad.
Have any of you experienced this before because I'm heartbroken. Is she in pain cause if she is I don't want to prolong the agony? What feed could I give her as never had to feed and low protein high energy feed before? What are her chances of getting better and will she be ridable again? I was in shock when the vet told me so forgot to ask all these questions.

Sorry its long any advice gratefully recieved even if its not good. I don't really want to rack up a massive vets and feed bill and still have a dead horse.

Had a similar prob a few years back, liver probs, that is, and searched for low protein feeds, and the best we found was Supa Barley Rings, our local feeds used to order them in for us. Also we used to feed vitamin B, I think it was compound vitamin B in particular, but I would check anything with the vet first. We managed for quite some time like this, about 5 years, but then George was in his 20's and had heart probs as well towards the end.
Good luck, I think it depends on how much damage is already done, but they can be maintained.

[laceyfreckle]

just wanted to say how sorry i was to hear about your bad day.

I can't help with the feeds but i know milk thistle as a supplement is beneficial (ask vet first though) also the vit B can play a big part.

Also remember the liver is one of those miraculous organs that can regenerate itself even if fairly badly damaged, although it can take a long time to do so and is more easily damaged in the future if affected once.

i don't know if its the same with horses but when my liver function test results are high (ALT level normal for a human is 31, mine sometimes go to 800) i get incredible itchy to the point where even myself have thrown myself on the floor itching.

[tillsmum]

thanks everyone i am trawling the internet looking for feeds but getting no where. Lady freckle she is a very itchy horse so thats another piece in the jigsaw.

[laceyfreckle]

thanks everyone i am trawling the internet looking for feeds but getting no where. Lady freckle she is a very itchy horse so thats another piece in the jigsaw.

can't say for horses but the 'liver itch' in humans is horrible. It's like a internal itch but it is helped with keeping cool, sitting in water (or being bathed i suppose for horses) worst effected are extremeties and odd places such as middle of my tummy, bottom of my hands and soles of my feet, my eyes and my nose.

i know humans can get meds (URSO) to help with this (also helps blood results) but don't know if theres a similar thing available for horses or not. I take vit K too but i don't know again if this would have any help for horses or just for people. oh and in people it makes you really tired and grouchy, again can't talk for horses;)

hope you find something to help and a suitable diet for her (my diet has to be high fibre low fat but unfortunately i don't eat horse feed:p)

[LisW]

We've just literally got our pony Charlie back "from the brink" with liver failiure.
Fantastic vets saved him - after first vets gave up.
You would need to check for your mare , but we had to give Charlie 100ml of Lactulose twice a day (used for constipation in humans) to get the toxins out of his systm whilst his liver wasn't doing it naturally.
He was also on antiobiotics - but that may have been specifically for him
He's on 30ml of Vi-Sorbin too - this helps the process of liver regeneration.
His results were in the high hundreds. Now it's about 70 one month on & he's so much better.
Hope this might help.
Simple Solutions do a feed supplement for convalesing horses - with milk thistle in which we are using too.
Good luck.

[kat1]

I have been there. PM me if you like. (())

[charliesmum]

My friend's horse had liver damage, vets gave her a liver flush, her count was extremely high. Now living a happy healthy life. She is fed milk thisle, is brought in out of direct sunlight due to photosensitvity. My friend spoke to a vet named Professor Knottenbelt based at Liverpool uni. He is a world expert in liver damage in horses.

[tanya sears]

Hi, I Know Exactly Where You're Coming From. My Horse Has Had The Same Diagnosis. I'm Quite In The Dark As You Are - Trying To Find Out As Much Info As Poss. Vet Told Me To Feed Just Grass Diet And They've Given Me Equisup (vit B Suppliment). They Are Retesting In A Month Also - So All I Can Do Is Wait. It's Not A Good Place To Be In Is It... Can Feed Chaff And Sugarbeet, But I'm Trying To Stay On Mainly Grass So The Liver Has To Work As Little As Poss. Also Getting Some Milk Thistle Which Is Really Good For Regeneration Of The Liver. I'm Keen To Know What The Outlook Is As Regards Eventing Or Even Being Able To Go On Day Rides Etc. I've Only Recently Purchased This Horse As I Lost My Last One After 14 Years From Colic. I Was Happy To Get This One (as He Is Bigger) To Be Able To Do More 'outgoing' Things With, Now It Seems Like My Dreams May Be Shattered And He Is Such A Perfect Horse .anyway I Wish You All The Best With Your Horse - Will Keep In Touch, Tanya

[Brandy]

I had a gelding with liver damage due to some sort of poisoning, we never found out what. He returned to normal aftwer we gave him regular milk thistle (of course it may have been something else but who knows). He was very poorly and the vet wasn't sure he'd pull through. He became terribly photosensitive and all his white skin died and fell of in huge rolls (he was coloured unfortunately :rolleyes:).
Lots of luck to you, livers are miraculous at healing themselves as I found out.

[tillsmum]

hi Tanya I unfortunatly have only just got mine too. its a bummer isn't it. Isn't it weird the different treatments we have been given. I was told to reduce the protein in her diet as much as possible and put hard feed in. So my mare is in at the mo cause our grass is really good so full of protein. She also hasn't drunk for a while so shes in to try and improve that. And this morning she had a huge drink horray. She will be going out again in a few days though once the cows have eaten my field down a bit. Roll on july the 15th when we'll know whats happening.

[H & Bailey]

I noticed my friends horses fur, skin wasnt right lots of scrapes and sores and he was stuggling to go to the loo, vet said he had a fever? and wasnt going to take bloods till she insited and was told it was cronic liver damage to try and give him red blood booster from the feed shop to boost his count his was probably due to ragwort poisoning and was told he probably had problems before she bought him ,(she had only just bought him) unfortunately he didnt pull through and had to be PTS best person to pm is monty i think willow had some sort of liver damage?

[tanya sears]

yes, good point about the grass - i'll find a really scraggy bit for him. i'm also getting a fly rug to keep off any uv rays. it's certainly worth remembering when the spring grass comes through and come to think of it i 1st started to notice symptoms when i moved him to a different field that had better grass in it.

[pagan]

I had a mare a few years back with very bad liver damage due to ragwort poisoning .I put her on Milkthistle from wendal herbs and she got better .

[tanya sears]

hi pagan, did she resume normal exercise?

[fairlady]

I have just put a thread on General regarding Hepatitis in the horse.

There is loads on the internet about it and the reason I was so interested is because a horse I viewed yesterday had suffered from it.

I Know SIMPLE SYSTEMS do a low protein, low sugar food its called Lucerne stalks or something very similar, I am sure if you ring them you could find out and they could give you more information.

Apparently, and I am only quoting what was on the internet and my Vet confirmed it, there is reason to believe that some sort of clover in the grass can have an effect on some horses.

[mnmnm]

Hi

you can get milk thistle in small bottle from Boots (5.99 each -currently on 3 for 2). We have had our laminitic on it regularly for the last 3 years because it helps the liver to deal with the toxins - in humans it is great for hangovers for the same reason!.

But yes the white clover is really bad for causing problems - if you have it in your fields its best to get rid asap.

good luck though

[tanya sears]

Omg. Awaiting Results Of 2nd Blood Test. I'm So Scared. Fingers Crossed

[Rummi]

Hope the test shows an improvement. If you're not already feeding it, milk thistle is a really good idea:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Milk-Thistle-900g-liver-detox-ragwort-toxin-laminitis_W0QQitemZ330247273975QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

[Portia]

Don't feed any supplementation except on the specific advice of your vet. With limited Liver Function such as your mare has may cause untold damage.

Sorry to be a gloom merchant but have seen this before - with all best intentions mind - trying to help the horse only to find the liver was so damaged it couldn't metabolise the supplement given to help it. Yes, those suggested above may help, but please, VET first.

[tanya sears]

ANY NEWS ON YOUR MARE YET? MY HORSES BLOODS HAVE COME BACK SLIGHTLY IMPROVED. CAN HAVE LIGHT WORK AND THEN ANOTHER BLOOD TEST IN 6 WEEKS. STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT END OUTCOME WILL BE THO:confused: HOPE YOU HAVE GOOD NEWS.

[ellasma]

It's a good idea to ring one of the helplines offered by one of the feed companies - Spillers is a good one. You can speak to an equine nutritionist - tell them the problem and they will advise a feeding plan. My vet gave me their number when my youngster needed a 'diet with a correct calcium/phosphate ratio'. I was confused too but the nutritionist made it all very simple. I have their number down at my yard and will post it for you tomorrow x

[amberleystar]

What a shock for you, I've just lost my old pony, so know how heartbreaking it is, but lets hope it doesn't get to that with your mare.

If you are wanting to get some milk thistle, I cannot recommend enough Cosmas Organics http://www.cosmasorganics.co.uk/COSMASEQUINE.htm. They do a large range of herbs etc and they are horse owners so it might be worth phoning and speaking to Alan for advice.

Another thing you could try is Global Herbs - phone them and speak to Stephen Ashdown who is a vet and has some excellent products for liver problems. My gelding that I lost recently almost died of ragwort poisoning around 20 years ago, can't remember the treatment back then, but over the years I supported him with herbs and oils and lots of TLC.

I also had a cob mare who contracted a devasting liver infection, we managed to bring her back from the brink with a combination of walking her out in hand allowing her to eat as many dandelions as she wanted (great for the liver and she couldn't get enough of them), daily Reiki, herbs and essential oils.

I informed my vet of what we were doing, however he thought it was a waste of time, but it worked as he didn't expect to last the weekend as she also had impending heart failure. She did survive and lived for another 18 months, but she was 26 so had a good innings.

I'm a professional aromatherapist specialising in animal aromatics, PM me if you need any further info or help.

Oils I would offer would be carrot seed, seaweed and rose. But please seek the help of a professional if wanting to use oils.

Good luck and hope your mare recovers soon.