Help from Laminitic Experts needed!!!

[chestnut-mare]

If its not one thing its another. To cut a long story short one of our horses has just been diagnosed with laminitis. Vet has been out and done his stuff (pain killer anti-biotics & frog supports). He's told us to stable 24/7 for a month :eek:. For a horse that is normally out 24/7 this is really distressing. She's in just now with her pair bond. Question is what now? She will go crazy if I remove her pair bond but I cant leave the other horse in the whole time as its just not fair on her. The one with Lami chews wood, scrapes up the rubber flooring, and grinds her teeth (horrible) .... so far. She is bound to develop other stable habits over the next month. Do I keep her in and hope she doesnt wreck the place (its not my stable, it belongs to a neighbour)? Has anyone managed to treat lami while on turnout? What's everyone else's experience?

Please, any advice will be greatly received.

[Teehee]

My mare had laminitus, and they were use to being out 24/7... I had to bring them both in. The healthy one got the same treatment as the sick one, except for the medicine of course, (and she did get one hour turnout... )

This way they seem to be both fine with it, the other one, wasn't too happy about being outside by herself anyway!!! :rolleyes: They were just happy as long as they were together... ;)

I have to admit, your horse must have a light case of Laminitus, since if her feet were really sore like mine... she wouldn't be making that much of a fuss or pawing the door!!! So, I'm sure that the best would be to keep both of them together, since stress can aggravate Laminitus... After all, a month goes by fast!!!

[Big Ears]

if she is severe, then by allowing her to move around much you are continuing the process of damage - the box rest, on deep litter, with hoof supports, is to try to stop the bone moving further - was the horse xrayed - unless this is done you don't really know what you are dealing with. how severe does the vet think it is? how long is the horse to be on pain killers?

rosie has had two bouts of laminitis and each time it has required extensive box rest. the first time we probably made it worse by rushing her turn out and when we had a second set of x rays done we found that the rotation was worse than the first set, so that explained why she wasn't coming sound. she was lucky in that we had a sand school she could be turned out in once she got over the initial stand in stables lark.

for part of the time we had to keep our other horse with her to avoid rosie trying to break down the door or jump out. the second time we put her in the donkey stable which was 20x12ft on very deep litter and she settled ok there. she was in there for 3 months.

you either have to provide them with lots of toys, trickle feed, or company, try a mirror as well. or even a goat or sheep for company -c ould you borrow a shetland or something small to be in with her or make a small pen outside the stable so that it could be in there within touching distance?

we have been very lucky in that rosie has generally been an excellent patient, and even now, she is in a starvation paddock on hay and in at night - she is very good considering how limited life is for her. it really all comes down to the temperament, she is basically content as long as she has food in front of her, and puts up with it pretty well, our other horse Molly would be a much worse patient.

ideally they have to be off pain killers for at least a month BEFORE they start moving much but it all depends on the severity of the attack - if they are really bad, they will lie down a lot to take the weight of their feet. once they are cleared to go out, could you consider a round pen in the field of a square fenced off or a bit of a sandschool - we are lucky, we have rosie at home so we can tailor what she needs how we want it, it can be a total nightmare when you cannot control the facilities. the last thing you want is them to be charging around and have another attack due to concussion.

i think you need to be very cautious and careful and keep the horse stabled 24/7 and ask the vet for more advice/degree of rotation etc. once rosie was stabilised, the farrier, using the xrays, was able to radically trim her to rebalance the foot and make her more comfortable but even so each time she was off for 6-9 months.

sorry to be so gloomy, it all comes down to how bad an attack it is so you really need to get the vet to explain it in detail and clearly - some vets are better at that than others.

[kturner]

If she will get into such a state in the stable, mine has had acp for 6 bouts for laminitis, couldnt you do the same.

Really quietens them down mine slept a hell of a lot, which kept him off his feet. His pedal bones had moved anyway.

If I could not keep him in, such as when the river was about to burst in last years floods, and I had him on four bales of straw to keep him above the water, I taped a small area in the trees on a higher ground for him.

If the river had risen anymore I would have floated him to higher ground and kept him out in a 16 x 16 and stayed with him of course.

You could turn out in a 16 x 16 square, just a little larger than a stable and give acp so she could lay down if she wanted, have her friend next to her.

[chestnut-mare]

Thanks for the above advice guys. You have confirmed my worst fears - box rest! I was clutching straws as I hate stabling with a vengence. I dont suppose it will hurt too much to keep them both in (at least for a couple of weeks) to see how they go. I wasnt actually around when the vet came so couldnt question him but he never gave my OH much to go on. He didnt say how bad it was, just to stable for a month, paste for the pain for 6 days and the frog supports. Apparently after the frog supports were on, she managed the 350 yards to the stable without too much bother. Her signs of lameness only came on last night so there has been little warning. Before that she was being her ususal adolescent self. I'm therefore hoping that minimal damage has been done so will follow advice and hope we've caught it early. What she loves is the horslyx - are there any suitable for lami's? Prob not, but I will invest in a dribble feeder.

Oh well, watch this space for updates!

[chestnut-mare]

[QUOTE=kturner;1761446]If she will get into such a state in the stable, mine has had acp for 6 bouts for laminitis, couldnt you do the same.
QUOTE]

Without sounding blonde, what is acp? Open to all suggestions. My god, take my hat off to you for all you went through in the floods !!

[donkey heaven]

Lamishield is a mineral lick considered suitable for lami sufferers.
I also give calmag in the feed - some folks prefer magnesium oxide or milk thistle.

[notpoodle]

agree with kturner (dont i always :p ), get some ACP ... in fact get lots of it!!

first time my pony had it she was quite freaked out because nobody else was in. with the ACP she was much calmer ... 3 attacks later she's fine without it, seems to have gotten used to the idea of boxrest.

good luck to him!!

Julia
x

[Pixie]

My Mare is on week 3 of 4 weeks of box rest after a diagnosis of a mild attack of laminitis :rolleyes:
She is kept with just one other horse in a quiet stable block, the other horse goes out during the day and is in at night, my mare is fine with this but does fret when the other one goes out for a ride but this only happens 3-4 times a week for half an hour or so, so isn't too bad.

Vet prescribed bute for 3 weeks then a week without and re-asses, she didn't xray but said inititally digital pulse high and she was uncomfortable walking. In 3 weeks she has improved no end but we will really see when she comes off bute. She is having 12 hour soaked hay 3 times a day which soaks all the goodness out but still provides fibre. I have been tempted at times to just bring her out for a stretch but haven't because i don't want to jepordise her recovery.

I also have got her on Global Herbs Laminitis support liquid which I hope is helping too. I think your horse will settle in time and as already said by someone else a month soon goes:D

Good luck and there are many fellow sufferers going through similar experiences that's what is so nice about this forum:p

[Portia]

ACP is acetylpromazine, given in tablet or paste form and acts as a mild tranquilliser. It doesn't work for all horses, but it's worth talking to your vet about your stabling predicament, see if he thinks sedating might be appropriate.

[Ernie Pants]

I'd definately try the Global Herbs Lami Prone liquid. I and several others on my yard keep ours on it all lami season. 1 that had really bad lami n was stabled for ever is on it all year through n I really think it helps? Don't know what others think?

[amberleystar]

My mare has been chronic laminitis suffer from a long time. we seemed to get away with it for the last few years, but this year we had a slightly more than mild attack, but not so terrible that she couldn't move at all (in the past she has been completely immobile for several days). I think this year the weather the way its been the grass has grown very quickly and a lot of people have been caught out.

this time I kept her out for the majority of the time with a grazing muzzle to reduce further carbohydrate overload, and in from midmorning to around 7pm to eat soaked hay and to be off the grass during the time that the sugars are at their highest. Whilst out she wore boa hoof boots (she is barefoot). this improved her comfort and soundness dramatically, she literally went from a very pottery walk to a floaty trot, just with the boots!! this lastest for around 10 days and now she is ok without the boots on. she is sensitive on concrete, but sound in the paddock.

Of course you have to listen to your vet and for very severe cases you need to do everything you can to make them comfortable and to reduce rotation etc. However I have found from experience, that if you can get them moving in COMFORT as soon as possible everything starts to improve very quickly indeed. The increased movement increases circulation and this in turn promotes healing. Boots and pads are very useful during this part of the rehabilitation. The way the foot is trimmed needs to allow the back of the foot to be used and loaded correctly. I would highly recommend anyone with a lamintic horse to look at the work of Pete Ramey and if you can afford it purchase his DVD set - 10 DVDs with the most amazing amount of information with regard to laminitis. Check out his website: http://www.hoofrehab.com/.

Also checkout Kathryn Watt's website: http://www.safergrass.org/index.html

All the best and hope your mare gets better soon x

[Flash Harry]

I so know how you feel. My fella is :) recovering from LGL. He was also on box rest for 3 weeks, fitted with bar shoes, 2 ml of sedalin twice a day. I was feeding him hay, happy hoof and a supplement Formula 4 feet(this is specialy for laminitics). I had x rays done and thankfuly there were no signs of any movement at all. He is now back doing light work for the past 3 weeks:), muzzled all day/ stabled at night and is sound. Your case sounds like it is early stages and i`m sure all will be ok for you both:). I used to leave a radio on for Harry whilst he was in just to provide some background noise for him. Try not too stress too much and keep us updated:)

[chestnut-mare]

Thanks for everybody's advice & keep it coming, its all good stuff.

Well we are 54 hours into the box rest and I'm loathing it but resisting to turn her out. Decided Tally's partner deserved some fresh air and exercise so OH took her out for a walk while I mucked out. Had to close the top part of the stable door to stop Tally from popping over the top. The rest of the box has bars to the roof so there was nowhere else to escape. She bounced up and down, pawed the ground, screamed and ground her teeth before settling briefly. Now having read that stress isnt good for laminitis, I'm stuck with a dilemma. Do I turn Tia out full time and leave Tally on her own and hope she settles, or leave Tia in and have Tally settled all day bar an hour while Tia is exercised?

I know I'm in denial and dont want to become an expert in Laminitis but... Tally is showing no signs of pain and has only been getting one dose of pain killer a day. Did my vet jump to the wrong conclusion or can mild laminitis come and go really quickly??

We've had some torrential rainfall over the weekend so I'm not tooo upset about them being in but I dont know how I'm going to feel by the end of the week. I might need my hands tying to stop me from turning them out. I'm going to get hold of a muzzle this week in preparation for the time she will go out again. Can anyone recommend a good comfortable one?

[Flash Harry]

DON`T TURN OUT - as i said before,please go with your vets / farrier, no matter - laminitus if you catch it in it`s early stages, may never occur again. In any case, prevention is better than cure with this horrid condition, seeing a horse stressed at being kept in 24/7, and one that is in pain - i know which i would rather have- it`s times like this that we wish horses could talk and let us devoted owners how they feel!:) You sound like your doing a great job, hang in there :)

[chestnut-mare]

Okay, we're 5 days into box rest. Tally has had no pain killer for past 48 hours and she is showing no signs of pain. There are no obvious strong pulses in any legs. No funny standing positions. I'm beginning to think we need a 2nd opinion. Does this sound like a horse with laminitis to you?? According to OH the vet only checked one back leg as this was the leg she appeared lame on. Very unusual for back legs to get it but went along with the advice anyway - after all he's the vet not me.

Farmer says we can use the small paddock which is pretty much bare so I'm planning to turn them out by the weekend. I'll keep a close eye and see what happens.

Would you do the same??

[Flash Harry]

Hi Chesnut mare
I will admit that to be lame behind is strange, although not impossible,due to a bout of lami. The only thing you could do to put your mind at rest is to get X rays of the feet done - this will confirm whether there is any movement in the foot. The only other suggestion is to get your farrier to have a look, he would be able to tell you if there is any sign of LGL. At the end of the day you know your horse and i`m sure you will do what you think is best:)

[martini55]

Don't be fooled by her looking okay. My mare suffered an acute attack of laminitis a year past May. She foundered in both fores and rotated in her RF (Her x-rays are on here somewhere if you want a look) but she was up and standing and moving around okay as soon as frog supports were on. She was surprising well considering!!

My advice: boxrest for a month. When inflammation in the feet has gone (ie. heat and pulses disappeared for a while) and she is completely off any pain meds, start to walk her. Start with just a walk across the yard and back (avoiding horribly stoney ground) a couple of times per day. If she copes with this then build it up until you are doing say half an hour a day. That's when I would try turning out in a bare paddock for 2-3 hours and see how you get on.

[Debbi G]

Look up Nitroxide, www.equinescience.co.uk absolutely brilliant, speak with them to explain more.

[amberleystar]

It looks a good product and has some good herbs that help with blood flow and healing, is it expensive? There are no prices on website?

[NoviceNic]

Agree with the others regarding NON turnout. Especially as you really dont know how severe it is. Have you rang your vet and spoke to him in person? I would be ringing him to go over everything again.

Do you have a school? Would she settle better in a stabled sized area fenced off in a sand school with soaked hay? Again if the surface in your school is grass dont turn her out.

[chestnut-mare]

Update...

Ok, spoke to vet on Friday. I asked him if he could do an xray and he thought it would be a waste of money as it was unlikely it would show anything up. I asked him about turnout even though it had only been a week. He wasnt keen but said so long as the field was small and bare then see how it goes. I dont have a school for turnout so this is the next best thing.

So, both horses are out in the bare field. Its about quarter of an acre, if that. They've been out since Friday night and I've been keeping a very close eye on things. I've been putting out a hay net between them twice a day along with a meal of happy hoof. They are still loosing weight gradually. No signs (touch wood) of any regression. She was like a bucking bronco on turnout and still gallops to meet me every time I turn up.

Would anyone at this point do any more exercise? Ie, when should she be ridden again? Its not that I'm desperate to jump back on but just keen to continue with the weight loss.

[tigo]

I had a long talk with my farrier about box rest and laminitis etc.

He saw no reason they could not be put in a small paddock with a muzzle on once they are over the acute stage. He did say that the paddock should be round so they are encouraged to amble about and not stop dead in corners.

He did say that frog supports etc are essential

Having said that my old horse (highly strung Anglo Arab) got lami following a steroid injection from the vets and he hated stabled but on acps he seemed VERY calm, he was in for 2 months.

[Flash Harry]

Glad to hear things are going the right way :) With Harry i didn`t start to ride him until he was 100% sound(with no painkillers) and then it has been very gradual. He is on a fairly strict regime ie plenty of walking, avoiding uneven ground, avoiding lunging on an uneven surface. I have just started doing some hill work, and have him on a supplement (Formula 4 feet). He looks fantastic, and the weight has stayed off. This `regime` seems to be working for him, but i think that horses are individuals so what works for one, may not for another!:):)

[Debbi G]

Its £119 for 5 weeks dosing and hopefully only need one months supply as it gets the blood to the foot. It just depends on how bad the problem is, but it works!