"Tying up"

[chickyd444]

what is it, how is it caused and who is most prone ? Can it be prevented or cured ? is it like collic ?

just trying to further my knowledge :o

[x.fat-pony.x]

Tying up, or Azoturia (sp?!) is basically a buildup of lactic acid in the muscles, so kind of when you get leg cramp in the middle of the night.
It's usually caused by a horse resting for a couple of days and then being brought in to do fast/hard work.

I know it can be diagnosed with a urine test, and think there is a muscular test that can be performed also.
As it's usually to do with bringing horses in after rest and working them, treatment is usually looking at the horses' routine and adapting it to suit. SOme other treatments I've heard of include giving anti-inflammitorys and ACP.One horse I knew was on box rest for a few days too.

Hope I helped! :)

[chickyd444]

thankies FP ;):p

[posie]

FP's covered it really!
but i think that new thoughts are that it's not lactic acid build up but something to do with abnormal muscle cell metabolism.... whatever that means!
but - once they have had it once they can be more prone to it
i think it used to be called monday morning disease - common for hunters who'd hunted on a sat then been left in stable till monday morning.
x

[star*]

Put more oil in the diet, baileys outshine is good. And remember all or nothing as it's noo good for them doing allot of work at the weekend then nothing through the week

[x.fat-pony.x]

I iz well lyk Dr.Dolittle, I knows everyfink! :D

[Joyscarer]

Glad you posted this chicky as I have learnt a lot too :)

[chickyd444]

JS, someone posted earlier about there horse having it, and then i started to panic, because i didnt know what it was * AGHHHH !! thats not in my equine medical dictionary, i thought i had all angles covered :eek:- tosses dictionary in bin and begins to shop on line for a better one* :p -

just goes to show you never stop learning ;):rolleyes:

[chickyd444]

I iz well lyk Dr.Dolittle, I knows everyfink! :D

U IZ WELL MAD ! ;)

[ANN H]

Its also known as Monday Morning Sickness. My last mare used to get it. She'd stumble round as if she was drunk, bless her!!

[cinammontoast]

Am I right in thinking that a horse's 'pain line' comes up if they have azoturia? Plus, can the pain line come up if they aren't comfortable around the stomach area e.g. have eaten something unusual but maybe not poisonous/have gas?

[Bertie]

Before I took on my current share another girl rode her for 3-weeks I think and in that space of time, rode a couple of times at a steady nice pace but by the 2nd week got bored and because the pony was wanting to go hell for leather everywhere, she let her!! This caused her by the middle of the 3rd week to "tie up", she had only ridden her in total about 6-8 times and caused her to be on box rest for nearly 2-weeks then gradually back out on full days in the field. When I took her on 3-weeks after "tying up" I spent 2-months just walking her with small bouts of trot, no cantering etc.

It's all about re-introducing work at a sensible pace to the horse. The previous sharer didn't and listened to horse (which wasn't the right thing to do in this case) rather than using her common sense.

It caused stiffness at times for the following months, in her hind leg but since a supplement of cortaflex and then codlivine she's been right as rain no stiffness and a good fitness level has been maintained.

[chickyd444]

so you could say "everything thats introduced, and reduced from a horse should be done gradually"

[Bertie]

My situation was quite extreme I think as the horse had been out of work for 5-6 years and only used as a brood mare during that time and still looked like she was pregnant :eek: She had no working muscles at all, she only had muscles from the field, had a heavy crest and generally was totally and utterly out of shape.

The girl had been warned that an old injury on her hind from years back can cause stiffness for example during the winter when turnout is limited at our yard but walking out and loosening up usually gets irradicates this but she didn't listen she didn't want to spend the time building up slowly.

She is now one of the fittest horses on our yard and can do 15-miles and still have jog left in her and not looking bad even if I do say so myself ;)

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8387/helendiamondng3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8387/helendiamondng3.180f4d0701.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=77&i=helendiamondng3.jpg)

But would say the length of time off and reason for time off determines how slowly you re-introduce work.

[eml]

Just a couple of points

To say it only happens if a horse is worked after a lay off is misleading as it is only one possible cause. Basically it is a metabolic reaction that can be triggered by many things. There are special diets for suseptible horses.
It is nothing to do with stiffness or warming up gently, or working an unfit horse nor will any joint supplement help, nor will the horse stumble around.

This is a sudden onset attack, most often seen in competition fit horses, in which the horse will quickly be unable to move at all and is regarded by vets as an emergency akin to colic as lack of correct treatment can lead to serious kidney damage. Treatment generally consists of large amounts of intravenous bute and rehydration solution and dependent on the horse field rest or continuing exercise as normal may be recommended. Immediate first aid is to keep the horse still with the loins kept warm until the vet arrives, do not attempt to move even to return to stable or yard.

I may be old fashioned but what I know as 'monday morming disease' or 'big leg' is in fact lymphangitus.

[Lgd]

Some articles here that explain it:

http://www.equinecentre.co.uk/vet11.htm

This is a US article - they feed alfalfa hay which is what they say to avoid as bulk roughage. Alfalfa chaff is equivalent to stuff like Alfa A and Alfa-oil

http://www.effem-equine.com/Waltham%20-%20Horse/nutritional_aspects/tying_up_advice.html

[Wally]

I have had it strike on endurance rides 1 mile from the start and 99 miles from the start. There is not telling when it will strike.

[StormyJ]

Echo eml on that.
I have also seen it happen in a pony who was worked hard, then stood still, then worked hard, then stood still last year at camp. He just couldn't move at all and started shaking. We put a rug over him and they managed to get him onto the trailer (which I advised them against but there we go). Now he has to have a supplement from the vet and they have to be really careful with him so he doesn't get it again.

[BlueWicked]

gosh this thread has really worried me as at the mo Blue is only ridden 3 - 4 times a week. He lives out so I feel he is maintaining a reasnoble level of fitness and I certainly havent been hanging around shall we say, when we go out for a hack if he hasnt been ridden the day before. I also rested him the day before we did our xc comp:confused: Am I putting him at risk:confused:

[Wally]

Certainly don't let it worry you, Living out will help, as he'll be on the move the whole time.

[oinkmoooink]

Basically, it is often caused when a horse is worked hard without being warmed up properly, or wamred down properly. It can also occur when traveling a horse long distances which is why i believe one should decrease a horses feed the week before long distance travelling as preparation, as otherwise the horse has a lot of energy, nothing to do with it, and the lactic acid builds up. ( i am tryng to remember my talk on this, i am pretty sure its decrease the feed, increasing it wouldnt make sense)
Horses have this huge muscle called the latissium dorsi- i believe thats the correct muscle or the rhomboidius, which basically runs from around abouts the withers, to the tail, and round the sides. If they are suddenly worked, or come do endurance or a race, then stop, the lactic acid builds up, mainly in the area just behind where the saddle sits and they are in chronic pain. If you ever see a horse halfway through an event standing stil refusing to move, that is probably why. The pain is so intense, that if forced to move, they can in fact die.
The best thing to do, is of course to call a vet, and to get heat on as quickly as possible, hot water bottle, rugs, anything over the quarters. To prevent it, one should warm up and warm down throughly, after marathons, i walk my boy about for at least 15 - 30 minutes, and sponge him off all over, and let him have a roll. They should in no way travel immediatly after work, as (having witnessed this first hand travelling in a trailer myself) it involves an awful lot of work for them- 1 hours travelling is equivelent to a days hunting.
Feeding electrolites is a good way of preventing tying up, some people put them in water, but the best way if to give them them in the feed to ensure they take it all in.
Ive never seen a horse tye up, and hope mine never do, i dont believe they become prone to it, nervous horses are supposed to get it more than others, but i dont think one attack means there may be future ones.

But in general, just hacking out etc isnt gonna cause a horse to tye up, unless you gallop of immediatly and then make him stand for ten minutes then load him up for a 3 hour journey!

Oh that wasnt really very basic was it? In basic terms- its like cramping but worse so wamr up and down properly

[Wally]

It's the liberation of glycogen from the liver that causes the problem, the body makes demands and for some reason the liver floods the system with more glycogen than it can cope with.

A horse with severe Azoturia cannot be forced to move as they physically can't the muscle fibres are being turned to mush, the kidneys try to clean it up and they are blocked with mushed up muscle fibres. Then they need a drip faster than they need heat. If they pee coke or black coffee yuo need a vet ASAP.

And I am afraid the old chestnut that so many miles travelling is like a days hunting is so flawed. If that were so I'd never be able to compete anywhere! It depends on the driver, the horse's mentality and so many other factors.