What counts as a refusal?

[The Original Crazywoman]

Did my first SJ comp on my new mare - only ever done single fences on her so far, although she is usually very good at jumping.

At the second fence she tried to run out, so went very wonky quite a way in front of it, so I steered her straight and she jumped it. Not very elegantly, but we didn't circle away, and she didn't step back at all. So I thought we had got away with it.

But it was counted as a refusal, and the judge said that they had been as generous as they could be. Not sure what that meant, as if they had been generous surely it would be counted as OK??

Any ideas what they meant? I was a bit too taken aback to ask at the time, and didn't want to come across as a bad loser!

They also said on the schedule that they would split juniors and seniors - they have done this in dressage and showing. But they didn't - my friend was a bit miffed as she would have been first if they split it. I agree with her that it is a bit unfair, as ponies are so much faster in the jump off compared to big horses.

[S_F_S]

Not just stepping back, but also crossing your tracks (for example circling between jumps or before a fence) counts for a refusal.

[newforest]

if went really wonky and of course to come back on course they may class it as a run and count a refusal. you may in going wonky crossed your path.

[iloveshearer]

I thought it was if they took a step back?!

How many were in the class? They usually only split if there's sufficient entries :)

[charlotte+jill!]

some also count as a refuse if jumped from a complete standstill

very :s ground as really up to the fence judge on the day i think!

[The Original Crazywoman]

We didn't jump from a standstill, or cross our tracks as we kept moving forward all the time, just jumped it at a wonky angle.

Ah well, never mind, will put it down to experience. I was just a bit confused at them saying they had been generous - because surely being generous would not count it as a refusal! :confused:

[Iron Maiden]

If they step back more than once it can be counted as 2 refusals or even elimination. Sounds a bit strange if you kept going forward though.

[noumenon]

I don't think it should have been counted as a refusal - if you were moving forward all the time and didn't circle - I've done a few cat-leaps in my time that have never been discounted towards a clear round so it does sound like a bit of a strange decision. But was at a show a few weeks back where a horse spooked in front of a fence, half-reared in a complete circle, jumped from a standstill and was awarded a clear round! Couldn't make that one out either!!

[CER1389]

Maybe they did it a bit like eventing? Which is to do with the presentation of the fence?

Basically if it's deemed that the horse is presented to the fence, does not clear the fence (step back, run out etc) and has to be represented to the fence then it counts as a run out.

So maybe they felt that because you were close enough that the horse saw the fence and tried to run out and you had to represent her on a different line of the one you were orgininally plannign to do (so originally planning a straight line, because of her wonky line you had to jump a bit of an an angle for example) they would count it as that?

Sounds too complicated for SJ really, but it's all I can think of!