Clicker Training!

[Nickie]

I started clicker training with my share pony last night!

It took 2 - 10 minute sessions before he was starting to get the point. He even targeted the ball I used when I put his hay in (I was using carrots as a reward before - I think he's decided hay isn't good enough now!) :D

I'm so surprised because he is normally a nippy horse but you could almost see him thinking - why does she pull her pocket away if I just lean toward it - but not if I go over to the ball? It was soo funny the look on his face was pure confusion for a while!

Bren has been a different pony of late as we changed his feed about a month ago what he used to be on just made him really fizzy and unfocused now he has energy but also he is more inquisitive (which he wasn't before). I don't know if that makes sense to anyone? I would guess its the difference between being hyper - and wide awake. He also seems more like a normal pony in sense of relaxed and happier - rather than miserable and moody all the time.

The couple of goes at clicker training last night opened my eyes quite a bit as I wouldn't have expected him to react so quickly. Also - he wasn't nippy at all.

I'm just not so sure he realised that the click is also a reward - how can you tell? How do I know if he has registered the sound of the click??? That is my question. Or should I start by asking him to stand (something he knows already) then clicking and treating - so that there is nothing he has to do specifically - I'm wondering if he will think the ball is the cue and not the click?

I hope I'm makeing sense - who else here clicker trains? What are your experiences?


Nicola

[Waikato Valuta]

What is clicker training? and what can you teach a horse to do with it? How dose it work?

Questions!!! Questions!!! Questions!!! ;)

[Nickie]

In it's simplest terms - its this

horse does something you want it to (i.e. touch a ball)
you click (with a clicker)
and give it a treat

eventually horse learns that if it does what you ask - it gets a treat.

If you don't it doesn't get a treat - but it doesn't get punished either.

Bren has already become more patient and willing - and thats in three days!

For some more info check out this website

Clicker Training for your horse - by Alexandra Kurland (http://www.crisny.org/users/kurlanda/)

Nicola

[Waikato Valuta]

HOw do you click do you just use your tounge

[Peace]

A clicker is one of those things people used to give out at Halloween parties - a beetle-shaped metal shell with a tongue. When you depress the tongue with your finger, it "clicks."

"Clicker" training was first done with whistles, for training dolphins. I always used a whistle with my dogs, too - the sound travels better over distance.

But the whole idea is just to make a consistent noise, the instant the animal does what you want. That's the signal for "you're right! you're gonna get a reward!":)

[Nickie]

Hi everyone

Just to say - I had my first go at riding since I started the clicker training on Tuesday night. Normally if I don't carry a whip - Brennin won't move. Well I started without even carrying a whip and I got circles, in walk and trot - both reins. I have tried riding without a whip before and he LITERALLY didn't move.

Eventually I did get the whip out and carry it but that was literally all I did with it - carry it (he wouldn't canter when I asked from the trot - but trotting pleased me enough). Bren was so much more relaxed - he did the loveliest canter ever - it was so relaxed - I could tell he enjoyed the canter as much as I did even though he didn't really want to do it (I had to ask twice) - he got his click and his treat after though so I think he was pleased.

:D

Nicola

[sazzle10]

hey! i was reading about clicker training the other day and it sounds really great! where abouts can you get these clicker things?!! do u get them from horsey shops!? anymore tips on clicker training are gratefully recieved......! thanks! sazzler x x x:D

[Nickie]

Hi Sazzler

Clicker training for horses was developed from an exsisting method of dog training - I got my clicker in a normal pet shop for £3.

I will say - the results you get at first are really quick and noticeable then they slow down - Bren and I are soo much better these days - and I've seen the little light bulb in his head come on a few times now - things that I have asked him to do for ages - its like he goes "oh THATS what you wanted me to do mum! Why didn't you say?!"

He is so much more willing now and forward going - I used to have to use my whip pretty much all the time as he can be really lazy - I don't always even need to carry it anymore.

And just to add - I'm going to be using it to desensitise him to flying bags and bright objects - which he hates. A carrier bag is just too scary mum! The reason for this is I hope to have him pull me to the church in a small carriage when I get married next year! :D

So for those that know me Tony asked me to Marry him on Christmas Day and obviously i said Yes!! :D :D

Nicola

[Daniela]

Congratulations Nicola!

How did Tony propose?

Have you chosen a date yet?

Having Bren take you to the church will be so nice!

Daniela

[Nickie]

Hi Daniela!!

Sorry I havent written or mailed in a while!!

How did Tony propose?

On Christmas morning. In his pajamas (sp?). :p

He got me a cuddly tiger from 'The Bear Shop'. (Tiger is his nickname for me - no idea why though?!) and when I got him (the tiger) out of his box there was a smaller box tied round his neck. I opened that and inside was a ring box. Tony took the ring box from me and looking rather sheepish said

"Nicki will you marry me?"

me standing there in night shirt also - looks at him and says "Course I will!!" then promptly looses all control starts hugging him and blubbing everywhere! :rolleyes: haha

Have you chosen a date yet?

Well sort of - its one of three - July 24th, 31st or Aug 7th 2004!

And we've got 3 churches that we want to go and look at too. - St Peters and St Pauls (Kings Head Hill, Chingford)
High Beech Church
Wanstead Church

I'm hoping to have Bren pull me there - that really does depend if we can get him used to traffic again to the point where he is bombproof, if we can get him used to possible flying white veils flapping in the wind, and also if his owner will let me use him for the day. We're probably going to have to re-train him to harness although there is no danger he's forgotton his carriage pulling trot he does that often enough out on a hack!!

Nicola

[Daniela]

Ahh that's so nice, I'm so pleased for you!

Make sure you keep me updated with any new developments.

Daniela

[Lilly Harvey]

Hiya,
Just thought I'd have my say about Clicker Training, I use it on one of my ponies and it works brilliantly, she's not at all nippy, and she got the concept stright away. Instead of a clicker though I just say "click" (a bit cheap I know but its easier than having to hold a clicker).
So I was no help in the subject, but I just thouhgt I'd let u all know how I find it

sorry forgot b4, congrats, for the recent engagement.:D

[Peace]

Nickie, the very best wishes on your engagement! And I think it will be lovely for Bren to take you to the church!

Have a question for you - I noticed you said Bren was normally nippy when you started the clicker training. How did you keep him from just mugging you for the treats? I went to the website, and they suggested keeping a barrier between you and the horse when first starting. Did you do this? If so, what happened when you removed the barrier?

I can see the possible value in using this method to teach the horse to respect your space, since he only gets treats when he's not in it. But I am wondering how I might keep myself from being trampled while I'm teaching! Quanah will respect my space if I look him in the eye and tell him to back off, but I'm a little worried that introducing food (he's a big pig!:) ) might overcome his inhibitions.

[Nickie]

Hi Peace,

Bren used to be nippy in general, it wasn't always over food - I've been told this is because he was gelded late (at 8 years old) and is some of his remaining stallion behaviour - which to be truthful I don't know if this is true of not - I know nothing about stallions.

When I started clicker I had to do it a different way because unfortunately Bren's stable door is solid at the bottom - with a near on full-grill on the top as he used to be a weaver, also at our yard we're not supposed to use a chain or rope accross the door - just in case. I do HATE the grill with a passion though.

So, I started off with Tony (my other half) holding him on a leadrope for me in the stable and I had the door open behind me in case I need to make a run for it, Bren did mug me a couple of times, so I ended up starting with him tied up loosely outside his box, holding a ball (my first cue) in front of him - giving me enough space that if he tried to step forward without touching the ball first I could step out of reach with a quiet "no" as a response. It took him about 2 sessions to learn that he didn't get a treat by mugging me and now he doesn't bother unless I forget the clicker (which I have done on a couple of occasions! :rolleyes: )

Now I do try in the stable with him loose - the most he ever does is sniff my treats. I keep them in a bumbag round my waist and if he tries to get pushy I just zip the bumbag up. It was quite funny the first time I did that - you could see the light come on in his head as if to say - "It still smells of carrots - but where did they go? I can't see them!!" :D :p Bless him!

I think the trick is to wait until your horse really understands that

work = click = treat
NOT
mug your trainer = treat

then remove the barrier or leadrope and as they know that mugging you won't work they'll try working instead.

Nicola

[Monty]

Hia Nickie
Congrats....how romantic.....!!!
Good on yer clicker training success.That's how I got Rebel to stand at the block for me,as I need him unnaturally close to it, because of the way I have to mount.Someone else has to bring him to the block, and I stand roughly where I want his head.He stops usually a step short of me...trying not to knock me over.He knows I have the clicker in my hand, I let him see it, then I say, "step", he takes one step forward,and when he's standing square, I give him his click and his treat, and he doesn't try to move until I'm on board.It has worked wonders.
At the moment he's on bute.I give it him in a handful of soaked sugarbeet in his manger.He follows me over to the manger, and all I have to do is to put it in the manger, and if he tries to stuff past me to get at it, I just confront him , which makes him back off, I then step out of the way, and if he lets me do this without shoving his way in, I hesitate a second, and he looks at me like a school kiddie in a race waiting for the starting pistol,I then click, and he's allowed to his manger for grub/bute(!). I was amazed, that it worked where it involved food!
So, the moral of this tale is.....try it....don't assume.....my horse would NEVER do that for me. I've been thrilled beyond my wildest dreams, though I accept that it doesn't work for every horse.

[Peace]

Nickie - you've given me some ideas. My stall door also has a grill, but there's a large window in the back of the stall that's open. I thought I'd work through that - it's about 2.5' x 3'. Do you suppose that's big enough?

I like the idea of putting the treats in a fanny pack. That way, I can take it off before removing him from his stall, and I won't smell like carrots or whatever. The first time we work outside the stall I'll probably enlist my barn owner's help. She's not entirely sold on this idea, as she says his former owner's feeding of treats made Quanah nippy in the first place, but she'll probably help.:)

Thanks, Monty, for the encouragement. You're absolutely right that I'll never know if it works with Quanah until I try it!

One thing I've been wondering about: in the new Kelly Marks book, Perfect Manners, she says she's suspicious of clicker training, because it was developed for use with predators (dolphins and sea lions). Predators naturally connect certain behaviors with food acquisition, whereas grazing animals do not. I know that Karen Pryor, one of the very early practitioners, also used this method with her horses. It seems to me almost any animal would make the behavior/reward connection, but then I've only used the method with my dogs and cats. What do y'all think?

[Nickie]

Monty - thanks!! Tony is a bit of an old romantic - quite amazing for a 24 year old really! :D You are exactly right on the don't assue "my horse won't do that" - I didn't think it would work on Bren - I thought his lightbulb would never come on - it did - and now there is no stopping us. :D

Hi again Peace!

Just to say - there is no right or wrong answer with the window - just do what you feel comfortable with and what your situation allows for.

The assistant thing is a good idea - just ask for a little help until Quanah's light bulb comes on and he realises that he has to do whatever you're asking (i.e. touch the ball) to get the treat and not just mug you! :p Whatever you do though - keep it simple to start with, and then change bits slightly to move on.

Think like you want him to follow a carrot trail - put the carrots too far apart and he won't realise there is a connection - put them close enough together he could eat them all and follow a trail anywhere!!

with ref. to the Kelly Marks book - everyone is entitled to their opinion. Kelly marks included. I can appreciate the predator thing but a basic need of any living thing is food - and for example, if you're mum gave you food only if you came home from school and did your homework - then you'd come in and do your homework every night - wouldn't you?

I can see Kelly Marks point of view - and I know there are loads of other people that are sceptical but the results speak for themselves. Try it and see - you've got nothing to loose and everything to gain.

Nicola

[Hevz2001]

Congratulations on your engagement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We also clicker train the horses I help out with. It's amazing because sky used to be quite bossy and pushy but now he's like a lamb! I love the look on their faces when they finally understand what to do! Have you tried hiding the target object yet? We hid our under buckets and things, or put them on our head. After a while they learn to actually look for the object and the way their face instantly lights up when they find their target is a look I'll never forget! It's like you can see them thinking, and they show intelligence that most people wouldn't think was possible in a horse! Have lots of fun with clicker training!
Heres to a long and happy marriage:):):)
Heather