Probably simple explanations...

[Rakeli]

for a very stupid person!

I have been riding the EE way quite a while now, have read the book at least 6 times and am lucky enough to have an instructor trained by Heather...

BUT... recently I told the owner of the riding stables that I work for to go to a demo of EE (she's very open minded and the next day started to teach what she'd learnt!) and as we were driving home her husband asked why the seat aid worked. Well, I could explain that. But it got me thinking why does 'playing' with your fingers on the bit work? I do Parelli with my pony, so he is trained to move away from pressure, but the average horse moves into pressure, so why do leg aids work?

Another quick question :rolleyes:; is it posssible for your seat to be so far away from a horse on a HORRIBLE saddle (but it fits the horse) that he can only feel your seatbone aids, but not the squeezy bum aid (sorry!)?

Ooh, just thought of another one, how can you train a BIG horse with a short neck to lengthen his neck down. What I've been doing is asking him to come in an outline, then letting the rein lengthen a bit, then 'playing' again, but it didn't seem to work (but I don't ride this horse often...once every two months probably). Does anyone have any ideas for this? (NO GADGETS PLEASE!!!)

Sorry to be so ignorant, but I never thought about this. There's nothing as good as a beginner to make you think!

R

[Tumbleweed]

Ooh, just thought of another one, how can you train a BIG horse with a short neck to lengthen his neck down. What I've been doing is asking him to come in an outline, then letting the rein lengthen a bit, then 'playing' again, but it didn't seem to work (but I don't ride this horse often...once every two months probably). Does anyone have any ideas for this? (NO GADGETS PLEASE!!!)

Not all horses will lengthen down, but they can be encouraged to work lower if ridden properly. I never as a horse to go in an outline either, if ridden properly they do this automatically without being asked.

This is what I do, not sure if it is right or not. I ride the horse forward with my seat and legs, and build up the impulsion. I control this impulsion with my hands, just using enough to go at the speed I want, then when I have the horse working well like this, I open my fingers and they usually lengthen their stride and lower their head.

While doing this, I am also using bends, circles, loops etc to help control the stride and speed. If more experienced I will also do leg yield, shoulder in etc. The horse should be going forward but not pulling. If the horse is ridden forward and your hands controlling the pace, (you can give and take on the reins if it helps), he will automatically be in an outline.

A horse on in an true outline was once discribed to be as, if you put your head onto a wall, then try and walk forward your head will drop because you have walked up to the wall, but your head and neck drops and your shoulders raise, this is not uncomfortable. If you pull your head back and leave a gape between your head and the wall, you feel as if you are putting a kink in your neck and it feels uncomfortable.

Hope this helps.

[Wally]

The seat aids work simply because the horse wants to move under you, if you shift your weight left the horse will want to move left too in order to keep you on his back and make you easy to carry over his centre of gravity.

Horses will want to move towards a solid force, leg aids are not a solid force, they should be given in sympathy to the swing of the horse's belly, on, off, on, off as the horse moves away, you ask, he yeilds, so you yeild, then you ask again so he moves again and so forth. Add to this weight and hand and away you go.

I have a small horse with a short neck, 14.1 hh Fjord mare. I find that once she is going forward and stepping up and through all I need to do is lower my hands and keep up the empulsion and rythm and she will lower her head and go longer.

[Rakeli]

Thanks for replies.

Wally...didn't think of the leg aids like that. Makes sense, I don't grip with my legs to use them.

About the 'big horse'... he is a part percheron, and while he goes on the bit 'his way'; it's tense and looks (don't mean to be harsh) very ugly. Thing is, I think he finds it hard to stretch down, he has a large shoulder but stubby, muscly neck. He does actually look as if he has a light forehand, he's built very 'uphill', until you get on him. He's a bit like a tank (no actually he's improved, was bending him in and out of pillars the other day and he felt almost as supple as he should be).

It dosn't help that he's 17hh and is a chunky boy; I'm no midget but it must look very out of proportion! We'll be the same size soon though, the amount of chocolate I'm eating...

[Uthyr Pendragon]

I am a new rider since May 2002 and I have a new welsh gelding that I have had for one week.

My trainer has mentioned that Uthyr has a thick neck and a bit stiff so we are working on making him more flexible.

I also found like another rider in this forum that he tends to not keep his cantering going in the arena. So putting these things together I was getting stiff turns on the canter.

So this is the advice my trainer gave me which today worked great.

When I am turning (lets say to my right) the outside leg aid is the only one being used and will stay on him during the entire turn. At the same time the inside rein is just lifted above the withers and slightly turned toward the turn while the outside rein stays frimly against the neck but not across the withers.

During the canter I am keeping the lead leg against his side to keep the momentum going but as soon as I can, I let go. For right now it seems like forever but Uthyr is learning that I want him to continue to canter until I ask him to stop and this includes around the turn.

Hope this helps, it seems to be working for Uthyr and I.

[Heather]

HI Rakeli,

Is it the school near Kingsbridge that you work at? I spoke to the proprietor who seemed keen to take the EE stuff on board, but I never got a chance to find out her name or that of the school as so many people were trying to talk to me that evening!

Will answer the other posts in greater depth later- gotta go teach!!

Heather

[Rakeli]

Yep, Sorley Tunnel Riding School.

R

[Heather]

Thanks Rakeli - now I know where you are. What is the name of the lady who owns/runs the school? Tell her that I was sorry to have to rush off, and if she ever wants to come over and see what we do, give me a ring.


Heather

[Rakeli]

Her names Sarah Bennett (think that's right!), I'm hopefully seeing her on tuesday so will tell her then.

Please can you answer my questions now??!!:D Thank you!

[Heather]

Hi Rakeli,


>>told the owner of the riding stables that I work for to go to a demo of EE (she's very open minded and the next day started to teach what she'd learnt!) and as we were driving home her husband asked why the seat aid worked. Well, I could explain that. But it got me thinking why does 'playing' with your fingers on the bit work?<<

It encourages the horse to relax and soften his jaw. My old trainer Desi Lorent used to say 'your fingers have a conversation with the horse's mouth'. When used in conjunction with a Pelham or other curb, the action of the curb chain brought about by the fingers gently squeezing and releasing the reins, causes the horse to involuntarily unclench the lower jaw, and so relax the poll, which relaxes the neck, which relaxes the back and so on.

>>I do Parelli with my pony, so he is trained to move away from pressure, but the average horse moves into pressure, so why do leg aids work?<<

The leg aids are 'pulsed' that is the calf muscles are squeezed and released, in the rhythm of the stride, so that the horse learnds to move away from this, and not push into it. If you use a solid pressure, most horse will instinctively move into it.

>>Another quick question ; is it posssible for your seat to be so far away from a horse on a HORRIBLE saddle (but it fits the horse) that he can only feel your seatbone aids, but not the squeezy bum aid (sorry!)? <<

The horse can feel the seat aids through even a side saddle which is very far up off the horse. However, some need upper thigh pressure too, and the shorter the rider has the stirrups the less the thighs are down the horse's sides, and so the less the horse feels. The only saddle that I can truly say the horse really couldn't feel a thing through, was a Western saddle I rode on in Holland in September. The tree was so wide under the seat that it was like sitting on half a barrel!! There was no way you could 'pinch' anything, as this lump of wood between your legs prevented it!

Ooh, just thought of another one, how can you train a BIG horse with a short neck to lengthen his neck down. What I've been doing is asking him to come in an outline, then letting the rein lengthen a bit, then 'playing' again, but it didn't seem to work (but I don't ride this horse often...once every two months probably). Does anyone have any ideas for this? (NO GADGETS PLEASE!!!)

It really depends on the set of his neck in relation to the rest of his body. Some horses just do not actually benefit from being ridden long and low, and those with short necks are amongst them. It can put them more on their forehand than being ridden more 'up'. Getting an uneducated horse to work in a correct outline is a very skilled thing to do, and can take a long time before the rider is able to co-ordinate the aids sufficiently to be able to do so.

>>Sorry to be so ignorant, but I never thought about this. There's nothing as good as a beginner to make you think!<<

R


Stop apologising Rakeli!! - far from being ignorant or a nuisance, you are showing the sort of curiosity that will make you a thinking rider. Good for you.

Come and visit me if Sarah wants to come, and then I can show you it all in person!!

Heather

[Rakeli]

YES PLEASE!!! I'd love to!!!

I did actually go to your yard the other week to use the arena(my instructor is Sarah Rice - thank you so much for recommending her to me years ago, she is an excellent teacher). You have the nicest indoor school I have seen! Lovely to ride in.

(by the way...I'm not an adult...)

[Kerry's Partner]

Well at least one of the readers of this thread is surprised you are not an adult because you have a lot of insight. I take my hat off to you Rakeli. I hope to meet you one day when we're back in Devon - for however short a time.

[Mossy]

I echo Kerry's Partners comments. Ask all lthe questions you like. I do!!!

[Heather]

HI Rakeli,


Perhaps we could arrange for you to come up after Christmas sometime? My horse Fanta has managed to lame himself, showing off to Mossy and Ros yesterday- think he bashed himself doing a particularly exuberant flying change, typical as he was going really well!!


Heather

[Rakeli]

I'd love to!

I've given Sarah your phone number, she was very excited and will be ringing soon. Just in case she mentions somone called Rachel...that's me.

I can't wait, I was too scared to ask you anything at the demo!
:rolleyes:

[Rakeli]

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude, so thank you Heather for your reply to my questions.

Also, thanks to Kerrys Partner and Mossy for their nice, confidence giving posts; which was just what I needed after yesterdays 'performance' by a stroppy pony, who decided that he didn't want to load for a dressage competition that I had been really looking forward to! (2 HOURS I SPENT WITH HIM!! IN THE FREEZING COLD!! Doing his Parelli seven games, getting his confidence, not loosing my temper. Never mind, I'll be competing again after Christmas. Hopefully.)

Thanks again.

[cvb]

Rakeli

My first pony was a Appaloosa cross mare with a Loooooong back and short neck. She did gymkhana, then we started jumping and did some flatwork/dressage to have some control !

If your horse is not sure where its neck should be heading, then massaging the neck (while riding) can work. There is a point that was always described to me as 3 vertebrae back (but of course the vertebrae are not near the top of the neck !), where you can lean forward and just massage the top of the neck either side with thumb and fingers of one hand.

(Its the same point where - if a horse has been worked in draw reins - you can see that the natural curve of the neck "breaks" ).

Sometimes they lean into at first, but if you get the right spot, they will then relax down. Its like a magic button. I understand there is a nerve running somewhere there that you are probably stimulating.

Once they realise that they CAN reach down, you don't need to use it anymore, as they start to like the stretch itself. You may need to keep your seat quite light as they will be using some new back muscles when they stretch !

[Rakeli]

Thanks, I'll try that.

Had some fun today on a 'baby' horsey...well, 5 and a half. Several dives into the middle of the school at the begining because of the flapping roof, but when he'd settled, some lovely work, lowering his head and really listening, unusual for him. He was really trying, which was sweet. Awwwwww!!!

[Heather]

HI Rakeli-

I will try to arrnge something for you and Sarah to come after Christmas. Scared to ask me at the demo? I will prove to you that I don't eat working students when you come over!!!

Heather