I know there are drivers out there!

[Steve.R]

I know that some of you drive as well as ride.

As you probably will have gathered I drive Shetland ponies, I will try to add photos asap.

What does everyone else drive?


Esther

[galadriel]

I want to teach my calmer TB to pull. She does fairly well in long lines, though she looked at me like I was nuts the first time I used them (what are you doing back THERE?)

I figure it might be useful to have a horse who can actually work ;) Been pondering how to rig something up to start teaching her about having weight behind her as well as me. I've heard of using an old tire or some such, but I'd like something resembling an actual harness before I do.

[Jay.o]

i am breaking timmy to drive a trap in 2 years when hes around four ! hes a shetland to !
i am learning my self and dont know alot about it really !!!!

[KarinUS]

DJ had weekly driving lessons before I bought him and it sounds like he did quite well.
I have never done it and don't have the cash right now to buy a harness and a cart.

So as usual, my horse is more capable than I am... :(

Right now the only thing I drive is a '95 Coupe...

Esther, post pictures! I bet a team of shetlands would be too cute! :)

[lisae]

My Haflinger mare drives well, although we didn't get out much this past year because she had her filly in May. I'm a rank beginner and I'm planning on driving lessons for myself in the spring.

I had a trainer helping me with my two year old gelding, we got him pulling the cart but hadn't gotten to the point of getting in it yet. One of us was still at his head while the other ground drove from behind the cart. The trainer skipped the stage of pulling just poles with a board nailed between them at the back, went right to the cart. However, gelding started trying to spin around while ground driving so we didn't dare have no one at his head!

Hubby recommends going back a stage or two and I agree. Ttrainer is now pregnant with twins and has given up her business, so in the spring we'll start over with the soon to be three year old. I'll need to find another perhaps more experienced trainer at that time.

This trainer wouldn't allow use of a whip while training to the cart because she was concerned he would start to kicking. I thought he should be desensitised to the whip and then when he started his twirling business we would have had a tool to discourage that with a gentle tap to the shoulder coming around. Any recommendations?

[Wally]

I used to drive Haflingers, www.geocities.com/tonkii2000/horses

Now I drive "Fat Cob", Fjords and Shetlands, Fat Cob is a Heinz 57 varitety cobby pony with a wicked sense of humour, but he's a good driving horse.

I'm toying with the idea of getting Pants a French collar to see how he goes in it. Pants is black, his brother is pieblad and a friend has a white grey who I trained to harness a couple of years ago, I'm going to beg the use of the grey and have my unicorn, I think a black wheeler and a white grey wheeler and a piebald leader would look smart! They are all 40 inches + and built like sherman tanks so it should be fun!

[Sidesaddlelady]

Anyone know whether 16hh is too big for a governess cart (aka a tub cart)? I'd like to try driving my Irish Draught - rather fancy doing the carrot run by horse-power and taking my elderly mother for a drive!

[Wally]

Tub carts were generally designed for a governess or nanny to take children out for a drive with a brain dead pony or donkey. The sides of a tub cart stop the kiddies falling out and the door at the back was for safety to stop the little darlings getting neat the wheels.

Training a horse with a tub cart it not advisable as you cannot get out quickly in an emergency. I would only drive a proven, quiet horse to a tub cart for this reason.

It is rare to find them big enough to fit a bigger horse, they do exist, I have seen them to fit 15hh horses, but they are more a farm float than a governess cart.

To find out whether a cart will fit your horse measure the height of the shafts from the ground, making sure that the floor of the cart is level and you are on level ground. Then measure up the side of your hourse to where the shafts need to sdafely be, usually half way up the rib cage, no lower, you can get away with it being 2 thirds of the way up, but no higher.

The shafts should come level with the point of the shoulder, but this can be adjustes by moving the shaft furniture.

[Steve.R]

I'm sure a 16hh could go in a governess cart, but might be better with a four wheeled version as it will be bigger and heavier (for stability with a big horse). You might have to hunt to find one, or get one made though.

Re: whip desensitization - I would never ever drive or even long-rein without a whip for safety reasons. The whip replaces the riders leg and without it you are very vunerable to the horse swinging around/into traffic. With mine I do as you suggested and desensitize the horse early in its training. I would rather it objected/kicked whilst on the lunge line than with a carriage behind - I have seen a horse kick the front out of a carriage - not pretty!! (incidentally this was seen at a show, and it was discovered that a stud in the harness had come loose and was sticking in the poor horse's back causing it quite a lot of pain).

I have taught all mine to drive and the spinning around while longreining/ground driving is very common and easy to cure - you just need to accustom the horse to the whip and give it a tap on the shoulder, or just lay the whip gently against their side if they are sensitive. Horses are generally not used to instructions from behind them and spin around to see what on earth is going on! They tend to do this if they are unsure, I would agree with you, go back a stage or two, establish good, confident long reining/ground driving and get him used to the whip, then move on further.

good luck
Esther

oh, I have put a photo of two of the shetlands on the Adults who ride ponies forum (I will scan driving photos asap)

[Steve.R]

Good point Wally, I wasn't thinking - I was assuming he was an experienced driving horse, but re-reading the message it doesn't sound like it. I would agree with Wally on that.

Esther

[Wally]

I would echo what Steve R. says about the whip, it should ALWAYS be carried, it should become an extension of your right arm and it should becom instinctive to use it and the sooner the horse gets used to it the better. I have never seen a properly used whip cause a horse to kick, it should be used between the pad and the collar, not the rear end. Or it can be used to ask the horse to move over by pushing down the side of him.

I would also point out that a 4 wheeled cart for training a horse isn't a good idea either, if they do spin round it is easy to over turn a 4 wheeler, not so easy to overturn a 2 wheeler. Once you are 90 degrees on to the body of the vehicle with the locking plate it take nothing to tip the whole lot over.

[Steve.R]

As usual I agree with Wally about a four wheeler for training - this is getting a bit like a mutual admiration society :D
Esther

[Sidesaddlelady]

Thanks, Wally, for some useful advice and information. As you may have gathered from other posts I cultivate a slight air of eccentricity!!!

Whilst my boy isn't by any means brain dead he has stared down a fire-engine in full cry and never flinched (and he was only four and a half at the time)! I fancied a governess cart rather than a gig because the driver looks so precarious in the latter! I have driven a horse and gharry in Egypt but I had no tuition and the horse knew what it was doing.

My horse lives in a village where everyone is used to horses and and generally takes care around them especially as the local policeman doesn't take prisoners where horses are concerned - his attitude is that horses can't read the Highway Code and people can so the horse always gets the benefit of the doubt. I think he would take to non-competitive driving like a duck to water just as he did the side-saddle.

[Sidesaddlelady]

OOps-- I've just noticed the mistake. Of course I meant the horse would take to driving like a duck to water - not the policeman!

[Steve.R]

I can see the appeal of a governess cart, especially compared to a high gig. However although the gig looks more dangerous it is in fact safer than a governess cart. Why not start off just with a basic low exercise cart which is safe and cheap! Then when he is driving well look at your options again, you may find you are okay to use a governess cart once he is officially bombproof! Or you may be better with something else, there are thousands of variations out there. Try the British Driving Society web site for links, they also have lists of local branches and instructors:
http://www.britishdrivingsociety.co.uk/

Or you might get bitten by the competition driving bug like I did!

Good luck anyway, he sounds a great horse,

Esther

[Wally]

There's loads of cart designs which don't leave you so vunerable looking. "All Drawn by Horses" is a really good book with loads and loads of pictures of different vehicles to choose from. A round backed gig would be nice, looks like a small Chesterfield sofa on wheels!:D :D

[Laetitia]

One of the most important things to get right is the correct balance of the two wheeler, as it will put a lot of pressure on the horse's back if incorrectly balanced. Agree with Wally, a two wheeler is much the safest to start in and a low breaking cart type, which you can bail out of if nec.
Love the policeman taking to driving like a duck to water. L

[Wally]

This is one of the problems with a tub cart, the seats are either side, not across, so balancing a tub cart is a problem, also you are sat side on to the horse which is an awkward way to learn to drive and you cannot brace your feet in a moment of crisis.

The correct place to sit in a tub cart is on the left hand back most end of the seat. so you can arange the kiddies in front of you and keep a close eye on them, and their combined weight balances the car up, but this will make balancing the cart hard if you want to take big adult passengers as they will cause the cart to be front heavy.

[suki]

Nearly all the older drivers started with a little pony and a governess cart - before so many good exercise carts came on the market. But no one virtually carries on using one because basically they are not too safe. I crashed mine into a wall once and it was a nightmare getting out and to the pony's head in a hurry. I also put it down a ditch, and then the only way out was to jump out over the top. Assuming you are going to drive without an accident though they are very comfortable so long as your pony is quiet, sitting sideways doesnt give you a good position for controlling a difficult or strong pony.

[Miriam]

I ride and drive Rhi a Welsh X Conn. She is now 7yrs old but when my friend drove herfor the first time she took to it straight away which makes us wonder if she has been driven before.

[Wally]

I would drive my old Hafinger in a tub cart as he is SO safe, I could lie in a drunken stupor in the cart and he'd take me home, observing all the relevant road signs!:D :D and speed limits.

I wouldn't like to drive novice or highly strung horses in one. I have never crashed a tub cart, only my gig, and come very close to over turning the 4 wheel wagonette.

No tell a lie I did turn over my 4 wheel exercise cart, thank goodness my old Haflinger was in the shafts as a single, he turned round and looked at me as if to say
" what the devil are you playing at back there - why do I have to work with such amateurs!" He stood like a rock while we put it bakc on its wheels. Lucky that time, it could have ended in manure so easily.

[Laetitia]

If you promise not to laugh, I turned a two wheeler over at the walk.! Yes, it can be done ! Literally wasn't concentrating and enjoying the view and took the banked corner too sharply, and there I was looking and feeling a prat - gracious I've fallen out. L

[Wally]

There, but for the grace of God......

[Laetitia]

Had a lovely drive out today, pity about the pouring rain. Am seriously considering getting one of those amphibian tracked vehicles to stick behind the nag, and setting her up with a pair of waterwings. L

[Steve.R]

We were out for a drive a few days ago (haven't got out since due to weather -wet ponies!) and I think we needed a tank! We are up on Hadrian's Wall and have loads of great off road drives (in fact we have to drive a mile and a half to even get on a road if we wanted to). But at the moment the tracks are really wet and muddy, I am suposed to be giving a driving demonstration at our local agricultural college next week - and the vehicle is coated thick with mud....that'll be a fun cleaning job ! ;)

re: tipping over, my experience has been much like Wally's - we tipped up (going too fast and tight around an obstable in a one day event) and the ponies just stood there and looked at us as if we were stupid!

Esther

[FRED]

Yep, we will all need paddle boats the way things are changing.
Hadrians Wall looks like this at christmas..brrrrrrr, well up until a few years ago it always did. Nice sharp frosts for xmass, where did they go?
Could not get down to Gilsland Spar this xmass, so deep in mud
:mad: same at Eden,grrrr.

[Steve.R]

This Xmas Hadrian's Wall looks like the Somme.....it has been really wet. We have had snow the last couple of mornings but it keeps turning into rain/sleet (yuk) and all goes away again.

Esther

[Gill]

Hi, I am following the thread with interest as I am about to drive too.
What I really need now is someone to help me in the NE! I have looked at the list of instructors but there are none near here.
So I have the pony,who drives, and was given a wonderful Christmas present of a driving starter kit. I need to sort out one or two parts of the cob size harness though as they are a bit small for my chunky 14 hands pony. I have a basic vechicle ready, which I have yet to fit to the pony. We are nearly there!

[Gill]

Esther, I have just noticed you are doing a demo.... is this open to all? Do you teach driving?

[Laetitia]

You don't actually drive along the top of the wall do you? looks a bit nobbly ! Fabulous photo.
Am seriously considering getting some of that synthetic stuff, the leather is SUCH a pain. Has to be cleaned every time and as she's big the harness correspondingly weighs a ton, and takes ages. They don't do French collars tho' and she does work so well in hers. Aren't I lazy ?
Yup, the cart would do an off roader proud. L

[Steve.R]

Afraid the top of the wall is a bit nobbly to drive along and I don;t think I'd be too popular (I don't think it would do my career much good either - I'm an archaeologist!):D

We do drive off road on the north side of the wall though and if any of you are familiar with the film 'Robin Hood Prince of Thieves'- the oak tree the boy climbs at the start is opposite the hill I drive over so I get stunning views that no-one else can see as we drive on the private farm tracks :D

The display I meant to be doing next friday, although it keeps getting moved dates/cancelled is at Kirkley Hall College in Ponteland. As far as I am aware it is students only as it is during the day...but I could find out...

I don't teach (I have only got my BDS Level 1) but I am always happy to help people or have people come out for a drive with me to have a go - I have done this quite a few times as there is such a lack of instructors up here. Oh and of course I do it for free which is always an advantage :D

Where are you in Northumberland? Feel free to pm me if you want to talk more. I am always keen to help get people started as I love talking driving and it is great to get someone else hooked too...;)

I have been driving for 12 years and have mainly concentrated on driving trials so we do synthetic harness (which gets thrown in the washing machine) and a marathon vehicle rather than anything posh....Wally I was gazing with admiration/envy at the lovely vehicles on your photos on another post (and the lovely ponies as well of course!)

I'll try to get some photos scanned asap.

Esther

[Laetitia]

What do you mean ! ONLY got my BDS 1, thats jolly good. It is a hard exam with very high standards, and you do everything in one go. They have changed it now so that one does modules. Have yet to find someone who has got their head round it. Have you seen the new syllabus? I don't understand a word of it.Its also very irritating as one is meant to keep a log book, and I don't know if it can be backdated. How do I get my tandem bars signed for when they're at least 3-4 yrs old ? Any ideas ? Cheers L

[Esther.D]

Okay, I was being modest about the BDS1 :D it was tough (especially as I took it when I was 15, I haven't had time to do any more since..). I meant it doesn't put me into the realm of being able to teach driving officially.

I don't really know much about the tandem bars I'm afraid - except that I want to get mine when my new tandem is up and running (which may be a while as I am still breaking in the leader!)....so I'm not much help on that.

[Gill]

Esther, thank you so much for your reply. I will send you a private message.
We did a couple of lectures at Kirkley last year on the topic of worm counts. The students seemed to be enthusiastic, though I am sure they would be far more interested in a driving demo.

I am based North of Morpeth so could easily travel over to see you. Its a problem to get started with driving, but I am sure we will be fine once we start! Do you belong to the BDA? I see the contact person lives near me and I am wondering if I should ring?

[Miriam]

Esther

If you ever do a driving lecturers plese let me know too. If I can get there I will. Are youa member of any driving club. My friend was (I don't know if she still is) a member of a club and one of the members had a lectuer day which we attended and it was great. I had Merlin then and he would not lunge I mentioned it to one of the other members who invited us back to his home to give me a lesson in lunging with both lunge lines as he trains his horses this way with the cart. I had an awful job geting used to it. I am slowly getting the hang of it with Rhi but not with the cart attached.

'I don't teach (I have only got my BDS Level 1) but I am always happy to help people or have people come out for a drive with me to have a go - I have done this quite a few times as there is such a lack of instructors up here. Oh and of course I do it for free which is always an advantage :D '

Oh you will have to come visit and we can take Rhi out. Will let you know when I get the cart wheel fixed.



'great to get someone else hooked too...;)'

That happened to me when I too Copper on part loan and we had an accident. I could not drive so learned to drive him.

'I have been driving for 12 years and have mainly concentrated on driving trials so we do synthetic harness (which gets thrown in the washing machine) and a marathon vehicle rather than anything posh....Wally I was gazing with admiration/envy at the lovely vehicles on your photos on another post (and the lovely ponies as well of course!) '

I love going to the driving trials. Used to go to Alnwick. Do you still do them. I would love to have a go. Told my friend that if I ever got Rhi this far she would have to drive whilst I groomed :D

[Esther.D]

Lots of questions from you all....forgive me if I forget to answer some....

Gill - contact as many people you want to, especially in your area, the more the merrier! Drivers are like riders they all have different opinions and you can learn totally different things from them all...there is a big difference between Private Driving (show driving), Driving Trials and Scurry Driving etc just as there is between showjumping, dressage and showing!

I bet the BDS contact near you is George Shannon - am I right? I used to know him quite well (very nice man - he'll help you) but I haven't seen him for a couple of years as foot and mouth and then my PhD studies have curtailed my competative driving, although we'll be back with a vengence and hopefully a new tandem this year:D

Miriam - this lecture and demonstration at Kirkley Hall is my first official one, although I have done demonstrations at a couple of local shows and taught a few people to drive.

Have never managed to do a National driving trial through a combination of lack of finances :( and driving Shetlands (Lowther trials definately refuse to accept entries under 12hh and I have heard some others do too). We did qualify though, we have achieved intermediate at Club level (don't qualify for Open until I have done a National trial) - and we won both the championship event and the points championship one year with the Northumberland Carriage Driving Club :D now I am showing off - but it is satisfying when you are competing against horses!

anyway better go as this is long enough...

Miriam - I'll see you at the NE NR meet up, Oh and Gill are you coming since you are in the area? I'll try and bring more photos..

[Laetitia]

Esther, look forward to seeing you at the next tandem meet. Always a bed here +field (don't do stables ) here if its down this way. I did want to go to Balmoral this last year, but usual disorganisation on my part, plus the fact that my nag in wheeler tandem is faster than the leader so its a bit of a push on, not so fast scenario. I'm hoping my friend will let me have a go with his yet to put together pair, they'll fit together better. L

[Gill]

Esther, thanks. Where are you meeting up? I might be able to get there.

[Esther.D]

If anyone is interested there will probably be a video done of my demonstration tomorrow (arrrghhh) for the use of the college, but I might see if I can get hold of a copy (if it is not too bad ).:eek: Don't expect miracles.....two little furry beasts charging around an arena...we start off trying to show off our 'nice' driving and it always degenerates into galloping around showing off our scurry driving skills :D I have problems convincing the Shetlands that dressage is necessary - but they are addicted to cones and obstacles because then you get to go fast and that is what Shetlands like best (mine do at least - I have one who is a real handful because he thinks all hills are designed for cantering down and seeing how fast your legs can go before you fall over :D and no he isn't a youngster - he is 22!)

[Miriam]

Esther I would be interested.

[Esther.D]

Sorry, video didn't materialise, the video camera had apparently been double booked......

Had an 'interesting' experience getting there through the ice and snow.....I'll tell you more when I have recovered :) Let me just say that I am glad I was driving my Shetlands as it included Gallie getting a leg over the pole of the pairs vehicle (not an experience I would recommend, but he just stood there while we sorted him out) and Mac trying out skiing.........I have decided that I like my ponies even better now - not a flicker of trouble from either - then they loaded in the wagon like a dream, came out of the other end and did a demonstration - despite it being the first time either of them had ever been in a sand arena! They really are priceless :D

[Esther.D]

Oh, and I forgot to say that, although I am worse the wear for the experience (mentally rather than physically) the ponies are in A1 condition today and even Mac isn't stiff although he is 22 and did a bit of sliding about.

If anyone is out there wondering why I did such a stupid thing as drive in icy conditions - we drove over the fields 99% of the way, it was when we hit the road (normally gritted) that we encountered the ice - had I known about this in advance I would not have started out, we had checked it in the car, but it didn't seem as bad as it turned out to be. But we are all safe and sound and none the worse for the experience, on the way back I didn't drive - we left the cart at the nearest farm and led them back to the field - I wasn't taking any chances...

The college have asked me back and I have agreed - providing it is summer ;)

[Laetitia]

Grief, you certainly had a time of it. Well done to you and your super ponies, they are obviously absolute stars. However did Gallie get his leg over the pole? good boy for not reacting. Must have given you a funny five mins ! I admire you for your effort, I would have gone home ! L

[Esther.D]

I have never seen a pony with their leg over the pole before - I'm not certain exactly what happened, but the head of the pole ended up stuck in a drift of snow which pushed it down (it is a sprung pole) low enough for his leg to go over in the confusion.

The only reason I didn't turn back was because I knew it would be horrendous getting back, whereas by the time we got to the worst we were almost at the wagon which was waiting to pick us up. I knew that by the time we got back it would have melted a bit so it would be easier for the ponies..

The ponies are absolute stars - they work on the principle of 'if in doubt - stand still and wait for Esther to think of a solution!'. Mac is quite confident in himself anyway (he taught me to drive), Gallie is more highly strung but we have had him since 6 months old so he trusts us.

[Wally]

He got a leg over the pole? that's a good one! a front leg or a back one? Must have been a front one by your description.


There is nothing like a bit of M&M intelligence in sticky situations, They get stuck, they have a think, then they look round and wait for you to sort them out.

[Esther.D]

It was a front leg. Poor thing he was a bit harrassed to put it mildly..but he did stand and wait for us to come and sort him out...well actually we pushed the pole back down and he put his own leg back where it should be..