Tractors

[CarolineR]

Guess what we're geeting for Xmas, our own Tractor!!!!! A Massey Ferguson 575, about 60 horse power (sounds like I know what I'm talking about doesn't it!!! this is just what Karl has told me). Its very old, but in full working order.

To enable us to look after our paddocks ourselves without relying on local farmers all the time. We have worked out that it will pay for itself in 2-3 years time, as well as hold its value if we do not use often enough.

I was wondering does anybody else do this, and if so what sort of vital equipment do you have and what is the most useful thing.

We have 3 horses 7 acres, and are just taking on a further 2.5 acres to use as winter grazing. We strip graze the paddock, make our own Hay.

What we were wanting to do, was, spring harrow - poo picking daily is now too much with the three of them - level the paddock, top the grass to keep the weeds down and eventually get the Hay making equipment.

Look forward to any responses.

[DebO]

Hi

Yes I have my own tractor and 2.5 acres of land with 2 horses.

The tractor was particularly useful when we first had the field grassed before the horses came home. I left the field without horses for 2 years to let it settle, but had to use the tractor and topper regularly to keep the grass cut.

We also have a harrow.

It would be better if you could pick the droppings up daily, if you leave it longer you end up spending all your time picking up droppngs especially with 3. Divide the fields up, that makes it easier to collect droppings.

You may find it easier and cheaper to ask a local farmer to do your hay. You could cut the grass initially with a topper.
I had a chap do some hay for me this year and we got 55 bales from just over half acre and he charged me £40.

I think you might find the hay machinery quite expensive especially if it goes wrong.

Look in farmers magazines for equipment, or even ebay, you don't need to buy brand new stuff, 2nd hand is usually just as
good.

Have fun, whenever I get in mine which is a ford and fairly old I usually end up doing wheelies!

[KarlR]

70 horsepower Caroline! As a silly fact, the person who "invented" the unit called "horsepower" (James Watt)was rumoured to have based it on a guess about how much a shetland pony could pull, since that's all he had available to test!

Thanks for the reply DebO,

If I could get decent hay made for that price I would do! :) We were quoted "about £1 per bale, more if we only got a bit off; less if we got more off".

The farmer turned up to cut it; turned it once during the week and then baled it - still slightly damp so that it became hot , dusty and had to be continually restacked to dry out. I don't think he would have even turned it if we hadn't shouted at him!

We pulled in over 300 bales of variable quality: the farmers flat 8 lift failed so I had to get 8 of my family around to load it up, and when it was finally in I was charged £330 for it!! That's about 20p/bale cheaper than I could have bought it for! This was the only person we could find locally who was interested in doing such a small quantity. On that basis, hay-making equipment would pay for itself in 2-3 years! You can see why we are considering doing it ourselves! :(

A simple harrow of 3 acres here costs between £20 and £30 per time; a topping more; etc. Also, it's difficult to get people to turn up...the last time I asked for a harrow done he turned up over a week late.

I'm amazed that you get it done so cheaply though, especially down south! I wish we had more farmers interested in smallholdings up here! :)

[Pam F]

We also bought ourselves a tractor for christmas last year - a Massey 65, over 40 years old but in good working order and we've done it up and painted it so it looks too good to use!

We were also intending to do our own hay with it but the equipment is ver expensive and for the moment we decided it is not worth it as the chap who does our hay only charges about £60 for about 300 bales. But we do have a few of his cows on the field afterwards in return.

We bought a topper this year which was the most useful piece of equipment. Also we've been going round farm sales and it is suprising what you can pick up. Got some really good harrows fairly cheap, also an old trailer so we can move the muck heap - outr tractor has a front loader. Will get a roller maybe and then look into hay making equipment and perhaps a fertilizer spreader. Good luck with your tractor, we're having lots of fun with ours!

[KarlR]

£60 for 300 bales! Arrgh! That's astonishing. I'd let a few of his cows graze all year round at that price!! :) It does make me realise just how much we were charged! :(

Glad to hear about another Massey. Ours too is in very poor condition, but seems to work well - it's due to be delivered this week! It also has a loader - I wasn't looking for a loader, but it seems a useful thing to have. I'm planning to spend some time welding and painting ours so hopefully it will look better next year.

I've been to a farm sale, but didn't want to pick anything up until we had a tractor. I'll definitely go and look at some more in the Spring though.

Not much point tryng to roll ground around us since it's so heavy to start with. We've been advise to aerate it and/or mole plough it - if anyonehas experience of these I'd be interested to know about it. Perhaps I should try and find a farming bulletin board?! :)

Pam - what did you pay for your harrows - I was told they fetched quite high prices second hand?

[Pam F]

Karl - I can see you are going to to be spending a lot of time with your tractor - what does Caroline think of this? I hardly saw Andy atall this spring as he got so involved in doing Massey up, trying to keep everything as original as possible and he still hasn't finnished - got the lights to sort out and the loader to paint yet.

The harrows cost us about £30 I think but I've seen similar one go for well over £100. It seems to vary a lot from sale to sale, just depends who is there. All in all we've picked up a lot of useful stuff but you have to be very restrained and not get carried away if the bidding goes silly!

We are also on very heavy land in parts and were told to use a different sort of harrow to aerate the land. Tried it this spring and I'm not sure it did any good, just seemed to gouge out great strips but it did recover.

Might see you at some farm sales next year?

[KarlR]

Thanks Pam. I'll let Caroline answer that one! :)

As for farm sales, I'm not sure where you live, but if it's the east midlands, then I suspect we will meet up!

I'd be delighted to find a harrow of any sort in any condition for that price! £100 seems more like what people have quoted me. Ah well - we'll see in the spring!

[CarolineR]

Oh well, every cloud has a sliver lining.

More time for me to ride and play with the horses without Karl getting in the way, or wanting the school, or his dinner, or where's a clean pair of socks!!!!!!!

Actually it will be great for getting the boys 100% safe around tractors and their various noises.

Do you use a chain or spring harrow?

[Pam F]

Caroline - yes, thinking about it, having Andy spend hours in the garage with the tractor does have its compensations. I can mess around with the horses all day or go out to competitions without feeling guilty!

As for harrows, we used both sorts. Chain harrows on the normal bits and another sort on the heavy compacted bits. Don't know what they are called, maybe they are springtyne. Not sure but the previous owner left a set he had specially made and they are excellant for dealing with heavily poached corners etc.

The nearest sales to you we have been to would be the Gaisborough region so if you plan to go to one round there let us know - don't want to end up bidding against eachother!

[KarlR]

I can't find a Gaisborough - did you mean Gainsborough? If so, then that's not too far from us!

[Pam F]

Yes, Gainsborough. Typing skills not too good!

[KarlR]

I'll let you know if we turn up to any in the new year! We can meet up and then decide who is going to bid for things on the toss of a coin?! :)

[chev]

Do you have any farmer's co-operatives where you are? They can be pretty good - the idea is you have a pool of farmers/smallholders/horse owners who each have a certain amount of equipment and operate on a kind of share basis, like one of you does haymaking, another harrowing, another muckspreading. It can work really well.

You can also cut costs by making equipment - we made a roller (from an A-frame, a large bore plastic pipe and some concrete to fill the pipe and attatch the frame) and a harrow (an old gate and lots of chain). They worked a treat - and we could pull them with a Nissan Patrol.

[KarlR]

Hi Chev,

I honestly don't know about farmers cooperatives around here. How did you find out about yours? It would certainly make sense bearing in mind the cost of some of this equipment.

I like the idea of the home made equipment. The cost of a nice new spring harrow is about £1000: you can probably make 4 for that price, although it's perhaps not so easy to make a baler or turner for hay-making! :)

[chev]

Hi Karl, have to say I've never tried making a baler!! That's one for Blue Peter!

Farmer's co-operatives advertise in places like agricultural merchants but try Farmer's Guardian and some of the bigger smallholder magazines too. I honestly don't know what it's like here on Anglesey - where we used to live we heard mostly through word of mouth, and cards in the feed stores! Not all areas have co-operatives up and running but if you can't find anything where you are it might be worth suggesting starting one. If you have enough interested people you're away!

The price of harrows was what encouraged the development of our engineering skills to begin with. A local farmer donated the gate and the original idea, the chain came from a marine dealer (odd pieces we got cheap) and the whole thing cost under £30. We were really proud of the roller - the pipe came off a builder's yard for a fiver, the concrete was in my father-in-law's shed and the A-frame off a trailer we'd been given as spares. Total cost of roller £5. There will always be equipment you have to buy but the simpler items don't always have to cost the earth. We spend a lot of time in dispersal sales too - they're good for picking up junk to transform later and are also good places to meet people with equipment you don't have/can't make.

[KarlR]

Thanks again Chev,

There's no point in me making a roller since the land here is all clay (and I mean solid clay - you could make pots with it!), so it's more a matter of trying not to comprss it any further! :) However, many other bits and pieces can certainly be made.

I'll definitely be going to a few dispersal sales in the new year! :)

[FRED]

Good luck with the tractor:)
Any advice needed on Perkins 4.236 engine range, then give us a shout.{ good engine}
I don't deal with tractors anymore, but I have plenty of contacts for bits and peices,S/H tyre and equipment.
Farm sales can be weird sometimes, at some prices are real real bargin,at others I susspect its who's got biggest cheque book.

[KarlR]

Excellent stuff. Thanks Fred! :)

[eml]

Hi Karl congratulations on your tractor. We have graduated from an old massey to a 'fairly' modern Case because once we started doing our own field work it grew... not just the grass but the work! We are also in the East Midlands on clay but we do find our lightweight roller essential for keeping the fields levelled after winter. It is vital to pick the right day, not too squishy or you lose the tractor, not so hard you can't level the divots. We also use our topper a lot to keep fields sweet and harrow for cleaning up. I would love a vaccum but they are too pricey. We also had afront loader bucket to help with the muck heap but it made too much mess so we have reverted to people power. Some of the things you are talking about, especially moling require special equipment and don't have to be done often.... have you asked around local contractors for a price for this? We got most of our equipment new by looking round at agriculturals shows for special offers... farm sales seemed to be expensive for what you got and if you look after your new stuff you know you aren't going to have to pay for other peoples neglect. Good luck!!!

[KarlR]

Hi eml,

I sincerely hope that we never have that much work! :)

I can see the benefits of gentle rolling, as you say at the right time - we asked the local estate to do ours but they turned up about two weeks later which was far too late...the ground was quite solid, although it did take out some of the bumps. However, we've been advised never to do it since it apparently makes the ground worse. Difficult to know really.

I think our first two purchases will be a harrow and then a topper. We picked last year, but it's time cionsuming and back-breaking work when it gets beyond a few acres at a time. Hopefully harrowing well and rotation will be sufficient. I can't ever see us affording a vaccum picker!

I heard that mole ploughs were VERY cheap - £10-20 for a single gang plough, so it doesn't seem worth contracting out and is cheap enough to throw away if it doesn't work! :)

I'm looking forward to seeing what we can do this coming season. That's assuming that I get all the rebuilding jobs done on the Massey first of course!! :)

Thanks ... Karl R

[Pam F]

Has your Massey arrived then and if so, have you taken it out for a New Years drive? We did that with ours and caused quite a stir amongst the neighbours, not to mention a few laughs when they saw Andy walking infront and me following on Massey. I needed a lead incase Massey shied or napped!

Look forward to hearing about your progress with the renovations etc. This might even get Andy interested in having a look at this site.

[CarolineR]

Yes we have it, I'll get Karl to go into all the details for you.

But just a taster for Andy, Karl got himself a small MIG Welder, another boy's toy, mainly for the Tractor!!!!!! But all of a sudden everything we own needs to be welded!

Men what would they do without their toys.

[Pam F]

I think I'll keep quiet about the MIG welder for the moment, I'm quite sure that it would immediatley go on his "must have at once" list! Well, I suppose it does keep them busy and out of the way so we can get on with the important things like doting on our horses.

[KarlR]

Well - now that Scrappy (our tractor) is looking much better, we've now purchased (and made use of ) our first bit of farm equipment - a mounted 8' chain harrow.

We decided to buy a one from Armstrong and Holmes (http://www.btinternet.com/~anne.armstrong1/index.html) - lovely people and very reasonably prices too, at least compared to my local agricultural merchant. I've had some compliments already on how well constructed it is, and some lessons from the farmer next door! :)

So ...I managed to harrow one paddock (which looks very neat now) before the rain came down 3 weeks ago and I'm now waiting for it to dry up enough to do the rest!

Now - we just need to save up for one of those lovely Armstrong and Holmes toppers too! ;)

It is fun though! :)

[SJ]

Please can I join this thread?

We are so pathetically excited having just bought a very old tatty MF135 ut with a fairly new engine which is arriving on Wednesday, along with a roller, chain harrow and topper. We have 18 acres, 7 horses/ponies and 20 sheep.

I'm a complete novice to tractors (but expect to be driving one very soon!) and my husband who loves engines is wildly excited at the prospect of doing it up. We've only had the land for 18 months, last year was a complete nightmare as we had to pay to get the fields done, not only did it cost a bit as we're down south, but getting someone to roll exactly at the time the fields were ready was almost impossible.

Hopefully this year we can nip out and do fields as they are ready. Being on solid clay means some bits are still boggy whilst others are like concrete.

We're not going to hay make for the reasons so many of you gave. We can buy good quality hay straight off the farmers field for less that we could make dodgy stuff ourselves and without the stress!

Happy tractoring.
SJ

[Janice Corbett]

Oh Stupid Me - I started a new thread when I meant to add to this one!

Hi - I have my own tractor, harrows, roller and seed/fertiliser spreader too. In fact I did a gentle 'refresher' roll on one of my hill fields yesterday. I plan to do the proper harrow, reseed, fertilise and roll in about 2 or 3 weeks time to my winter fields. I have found having this equipment to be a godsend! Many of my friends are farmers and their difficulty is that all the 'small acreage' horse people want their fields done just as the farmers need their equipment for doing their large acreage, and they just can't fit all the work in!

[eml]

Spring is definately coming... husband spent weekend rolling fields and apart from some sticky gateways thats a job done...have to get fences mended where tractor slid on one slippery patch. Even washed all the windows in the stable yard today..amazing what a bit of sun makes you do!

[KarlR]

Hi SJ. Of course - just jump right in! :)

The MF135 is supposed to be a nice little tractor. It's good that you managed to get a roller, harrow, and topper at the same time. We're still saving up for the topper!

Caroline refuses to drive my MF: she says that it shakes and wobbles too much from side to side. Shame - I'll have to do all the driving myself! :D

Your situation sounds exactly like ours. We're on really heavy clay, which has an amazing growing season, but is difficult to keep even remotely dry. I've harrowed the second paddock today but Scrappy (our MF575) almost got stuck on a couple of the boggier bits and I've avoided one corner that is like a marsh altogether.

We tried last year to get work done too, but not only was it expensive, but extremely unreliable. By the time the chap turned up to roll our padocks (weeks after we asked) they were so dry that the hoofprints didn't come out all season! Also, the work we had done was poor - my first attempt at harrowing was much better than that done by the contractor! :(

We bought the tractor as a "renovation project" too. It was in very poor condition - not a panel that wasn't rusted through, leaking hydraulics, fuel problems, no working electrics, no diesel tank fitted etc. Seems much better now though, after a few months of welding, filling, repainting, rewiring etc! I'm sure that you'll have lots of fun with yours!

Janice: What tractor do you have? Do you find that you have to reseed each year? Is that due to poaching? I had to do a few patches last year, but they were small enough to do by hand. I agree about the convienience bit...instead of waiting a week to get someone out to harrow I now just spend 10 minutes coupling up the harrow and another half an hour to harrow each acre.

[Janice Corbett]

Hi Karl, mine is a little old Massey too - a red one but not sure of it's model - 135 sounds familiar, three cylinder two wheel drive? I reseed each year with meadow mix to rejuvenate the grazing and, yes, I used to do it by hand, marking off sections and having a bucketful per section. When hubby spotted the old spreader at an auction he bought it for me - I just had to renovate it! It makes the job quicker and less tiring on the arms! My MF shakes me about too - but it's such a perfect way of getiing a suntan! The breeze keeps you cool and you're not wasting time lying around (I can not 'sun bathe'). Do have to ensure you're aware of just how much sun you're getting though - I'm lucky as I don't really burn. I thoroughly enjoy pootling around. Borrowed a farming friends big posh thing last year - stereo, ait con etc etc and hated it - even if I won the lottery I wouldn't buy anything like that!

[SJ]

I think our MF was red once, now very definitely brown and rusty! the dealer wanted to double the price just make it look pretty - No thanks! I shall look forward to the bone shaking and the sun tan. No doubt I shall be doing much of the driving as huby has too much else to do. The roller, harrow and topper cost nearly as much as the tractor, we rather indulged ourselves buying them altogether but felt that the tractor was pointless without the gadgets and local ads didn't have anything suitable 2nd hand and we're in a bit of a hurry.

Panicking already as each day without rain and the fields are hardening up so fast, tractor not arriving until tomorrow so hubby will have to be out there pdq.

Please would someone answer these few very novice questions so we dont' get it too wrong:

1. We have been told that chain harrowing can be done a reasonable speed but rolling must be done very slowly.

2. We are advised to buy a water filled roller as its heavier for the clay - hope you agree?

3. Only our gateways are shot to pieces, is it worth reseeding or should we just leave them to dry as the same will happen next year? If we reseed we will still have to use the gateways so will it be a complete waste of time?

4. We have a few docks and nettles around the edges of the fields if we top them regularly willthey eventually go away and save us weed killing?

Many thanks
SJ

[Janice Corbett]

SJ - I definately hurtle when I'm chain harrowing! I roll slowly!

We have a water filled roll and we're on clay (just outside Redditch - called Red Ditch eons ago because of the red clay that the area is notortious for). It seems to do the job perfectly well, although hubby wanted to make an additional bracket so we have the option of putting a railway sleeper on for additional weight.

I reseed the gateways every year - otherwise the regrowth will be too weak to tolerate the pounding of hooves next winter, and during summer we will get a dusty bare patch - personal choice!

We spray docks and nettles with Grazon (Grazon 50 I think it is) otherwise each regrowth seems to be stronger than the last! We use a pump sprayer and do it by hand but Grazon can be done with machinery as it doesn't harm the grass. We have lots of old herbage though that I want to preserve (it's old pasture).

Don't worry about it drying out too much - once you harrow you'll 'knock off' the 'ups' and that will fill the 'drops', then when you roll it will look an absolute dream!

[Janice Corbett]

Meant to say - if you spray your weeds the deeper rooted stuff will grow back, but weaker, then you spray them again, then they might grow back but very weak, then you spray again and eventually they give up! If you're going to spray start as soon as you see the little blighters popping their heads up - they will take in the maximum amount of weed killer!

[Busterbum22]

OUT OF INTEREST IF ANYONE IS WILLING TO SAY, HOW MUCH YOU ALL PAY FOR YOUR TRACTORS, WE ARE THINKING OF GETTING ONE, BUT LOOKING IN FARMERS GUARDIAN THEY ARE ABOUT 3-4 GRAND, IS THIS RIGHT. OR CAN YOU GET THEM CHEAPER ELSE WHERE.

[eml]

We got our first tractor complete with trailer for £400...it needed a lot of work and didn't look pretty but it was useable. We found this in a local paper. Because we use it so much..40acres and two schools to maintain we later bought a small modern one second hand for £4000 and sold the orgional again through the loca lpaper

[Busterbum22]

brill thanks eml, that sounds a lot better.

[Janice Corbett]

Ours was 900. In our local ads rag we get lots like ours advertised at the same sort of price.

[SJ]

No great secret - our little MF135 was £1800 through a dealer so we probably paid a little over the odds but it has been serviced and has a new engine. Its looks really sad and has extremely tatty body work but hopefully with some superficial tlc will look the part eventually. We looked at other makes around the £1000 mark through private ads but they were in an even worse state with no guarantee of what condition the working parts were in.

Thanks Janice - really helpful

When can you put horses back out on the pasture after you've used Grazon?

SJ

[Janice Corbett]

There is no need to keep them off it apparently (that's why it's called Grazon - Graze On) however I do keep them off for 2 weeks - again, just a personal preference thing!

[KarlR]

Those MF135's are certainly popular! :) I'm afraid my 575 has a cab, so I avoid the rain and it has working heaters, but avoid the sun too! :( Our 575 cost £1400 from a local farmer including a loader - again, very tatty condition. Just ask around - farmers always seem to have a spare one for sale - remember to haggle with farmers!

I was also told to harrow very fast - apparently it produces a better finish and takes less time). I guess wth rollers, you have to give it time to compress the earth. Most modern rollers seem to be fillable (with salt solution!) - remember to drain them in winter if you use plain water otherwise they will burst!

Grazon seem to be the best thing to use as a herbicide, although it is expensive at the recommended dosage - there are muich cheaper although less effective alternatives like MCPA. Grazon has to be used at the right times of year though, otherwise the weeds come back quicky. There is an official withdrawal period of about 2-4 weeks before you are supposed to alow grazing again. Topping regularly will however kill off most weeds.

[Janice Corbett]

Yes - Karl is right re Grazon - checked on labels last night - well it has been a year since we had to use it!!

[SJ]

Thanks Karl and Janice.

Just heard tractor is on its way. This one has a little cab with canvas sides, so fully air conditioned with removable sun roof!

Salt solution in the roller? Am I being thick? Is it to stop rust? If so how much salt to water?

SJ

[KarlR]

Hi SJ - the salt solution suggestion was what I was told - I don't have a roller yet.

However, it was to avoid it freezing in winter. Water freezes and will expand, ice being bigger than water - Salt stops it freezing.

Technically of course you could use antifreeze instead, which would prevent it corroding inside too, but in that case you would want to leave it filled up all year round - antifreeze is expensive! :)

I've never seen a 135 with a cab! You must post a picture!

Janice - we had our field MCPA'd last year. We did it all but left about 1/2 acre for them to use for the next 4 weeks. By the time they got back into the proper paddock they were desperate: they had been surrounded by lush, weed free grass while taped into a tiny bare paddock. What torture for them! :eek:

[Janice Corbett]

Karl - we have done a light harrow and roll of our winter fields over the last few evenings, but have put the horses back into one of these fields - today they are looking longingly at the summer paddocks which are developing a flush of grass!! They will go onto one of the summer paddocks for a few hours on Friday afternoon (tomorrow) - don't want them to have a massive ingestion of spring grass in too much of a hurry!

BTW - ours is actually a Massey 35, not a 135!!

If anyone is interested we have the complete hydraulics, including hyraulics for the bucket ram, plus the arms and bucket, for sale. The Hydraulics are in good working order but the bucket and arms need some attention (welding). Have no idea on value and are open to offers.

[KarlR]

Ah Janice...you're just trying to confuse me saying that you thought that you had a 135 then? :) That said, they're similar tractors to look at (I hope there's no tractor purists hearing me say that!). I've still never seen one with a cab though!

We were always told to leave them off harrowed paddocks for a month to allow the sun to kill off any worm eggs in the droppings. That said, if the paddock was unused all winter they should be dead anyway I guess.

I put my TB on one of the lusher padocks for 1 hour last night - he was very excited. Sadly, the cobs were very upset when they realised that they were having to stay in the adjacent paddock with very little grass! Too much laminitis risk for them :(

[Janice Corbett]

Hahahahaha! Well I got it 2/3rds right!! I knew there was a 35 in it!

Ours doesn't have a cab - just a roll bar over the back.

We've never left them off harrowed paddocks and we have worm egg counts done every 6 months - results usually are >50 epg, and only on one occasion did we have a slightly higher result for one horse - a yearling - who came into the next band up. Appropriate action was taken. In general we worm only 3 times a year - once for tapes, once for bots and the five day course for encysted small redworms, as suggested by our South African Vet. In fact, during the months when the ground is dry enough to take a tractor we don't pooh pick, we just harrow so the pooh spreads, self fertilises and sour patches are prevented - a land management specialist suggested we do this ten years ago and we've done it ever since. A bit radical and somewhat contraversial but it has always worked for us.

[SJ]

It arrived last night - hooray! Yes, it really does have a cab. Proper windscreen, white (once upon a time!) canvas sides and roof. Must have had doors once but now both are missing and no back. I promise I'll post a piccy once I've got one. It looks like an overgrown Dinky toy.

Our friendly farmering neighbour came and gave it the once over and taught us what did what, he thought it was great (I hope he meant it) and used to use one all the time. Apparently it needs a couple of bits, nothing major, a pin, length of chain and a hitching hook thingy - it came with the wrong type for our muck trailer.

First challenge is turning the roller over, silly delivery chap has left it upside down!!!

Karl - Hubby worked out the salt thing (but he thinks it might increase the rust?), I never was any good at science.

SJ

[Janice Corbett]

SJ - turning the roller over - surely you just need to take hold of the drawbar and lift it over the roller so it is pointing in the opposite direction????? Or am I being a complete prune?

Happy tractoring!

[KarlR]

Janice: That's quite encouraging. Our worm counts last year (after poo picking by hand and regular worming) were almost zero - my vet told me off for this saying that they lose their natural worm resistance when the counts are that low, so we've moved to a count-based worming program for this year.

I did worry that even though we will be keeping them off the harrowed paddocks for a month, the worm counts would increase too much; however...if you are leaving them on harrowed paddocks then we should be just fine!!

SJ: Congratulations! Ours has its door missing too - I think they must be the first bit to rust away on old tractors! :) It's good that you've got a farmer willing to help out. My tractor came with the wrong type of hitch too, but it's not a problem to me yet. You can usually swap them over easily anyway.

Your hubby is right about the salt - it will increase corrosion substantially - I prefer the antifreeze idea; a farmer told me to use salt, but farmers usually go for "cheapness"!

I'll have to remember to post a picture too, especially now that I've finished slapping the paint on (albeit not quite the right coloured paint!).

[Busterbum22]

ok folks bear with me I'm blonde, how do you look after your fields, you'd never guess i was once married to a farmer. but that was 15 years ago, now have recently bought a small holding, for ponies to be a home. the land we have bought is quiet boggy, mainly because drain in field are knackered. the land is how should i say uneven, what do you do first, roller, harrow, reseed, muck spread, liming i remember my ex used to do all these but for the life of me i can't remember in which order. for this year we are going to get local farmer to these for us, and we aim to buy a tractor ready for winter with necessary bits and bobs.
thanks

[SJ]

Janice, No your're not being a prune I said the same until I saw it. The frame runs right round it so somehow we've got to flip it over. Job for first thing Sat. morning.

Karl, We're going for the antifreeze too.

Hopefully going for a spin with the harrow tomorrow, will let you know how we get on. (I must be getting very old and sad - I'm sure one shouldn't get excited learning to drive a beaten up tractor!)

SJ

[Janice Corbett]

SJ - driving an old tractor round a bumpy field dragging a harrow, repairing and maintaining your fields for the benefit of your horse is one of the most wonderful feelings you can have - and it's better than driving any fancy or performance vehicle you can find, anywhere in the world!!

A bit dramatic perhaps, but I love it!

[SJ]

Janice, unfortunately hasn't stoped my husband hankering after an old AC Cobra to restore. He doesn't think the 135 will do 0-60 in less than about 3 days!

Busterbum22, can't really help you much as I'm blonde and learning too!

SJ

[KarlR]

SJ: no need to be worried: there's something good for the soul about spending an hour or two driving a tractor around the field, seeing the improvement behind you! I can't help but sing as I'm going along. The other day, I went through the field with the horses in, and they all followed me aruond in the tractor! Even the youngster isn't afraid of tractors anymore! :)

As regards the roller, I feel sure that with a length of rope and a tractor, you can turn anything over! :D

Busterbum: I'm no expert, but I'd say that you want to roll the field flat as soon as you can safely get on the field (without losing the tractor) - probably about now; then harrow to encourage the new growth. Harrowing needs doing at least at the start and end of the season, but in between if you can too.

I thought that muck-spreading was more of an early winter job, and re-seeding is always best in September! Both of these need time away from horses hooves really.

Liming depends on your soil - unless you have avery low pH, it's probably not worth it. Are you on a clay soil? (you mention it being "boggy").

[SJ]

Monday morning now back at work - completely exhausted - but what a jolly weekend. Perfect weather and hours of happy tractoring. Fields now like billiard tables. Horse and ponies full of spring luancy belting around all over the place. None of them minded the tractor in the fields with them. Bit worried about squashing the sheep though. It seemed rather slow perhaps because we're learning. 2 days to harrow and roll 18 acres?

Obviously , as complete novices, we were obliged to have at least one crisis:D . Our was getting the roller seriously stuck in the mud in one gateway much to everyone's amusement. Lots of scratching of heads until our friendly Farmer (who had of course been watching from afar) came over and sorted us out. Easy when you know how! Unhitch tractor move forward onto firm ground, attach length of chain between roller and tractor and out pops the roller, Voila! So now we know. He was so kind, told us it frequently happens to experienced farmers (I doubt it!!).

Sara Jane

[Busterbum22]

Karl, thanks,

i thought muck spreading was done early winter, but had notice that farmers around our way where spreading, so then i thought oh maybe you do that in spring, which then had me doubting everything else i thought you did and when it was to be done.
So have just phoned farmer Ste and he is coming to roll and harrow this week.

our land is clay soil although there is a layer of top soil on both fields, the front field slopes more than the back so really the rain should more or less run down to the field at the bottom, but the drain are knacked mainly because the last owner put the muck heap in the front field along the long side of the arena, which blocked the drains. So farmer ste says he will bring me a really big muck trailer and i will have to move the muck heap with fork and barrow into trailer, as last owner put more than muck on there. and he won't use his spreader until i picked all the bits out that shouldn't be there.

thanks for advise. really helpful.

[KarlR]

Hi SJ: Sounds like a fun weekend. Mine was alcohol soaked, starting with a Wine and Cheese party with my alcoholic neighbours on Saturday and ending with my family visiting on Sunday and wanting to spend the afternoon in the pub! Still managed to get a few repair jobs done on the tractor though and harrowed a 1.5 acre paddock so something productive done.

2 days to harrow and roll 18 acres seems about right to me - I know people who could do it in half that time, but it would certainly take me that long. I guess that there's 4-6 hours or so harrowing and twice that rolling. It doesn't have to be rolled too often though so at least it's not like mowing the lawn which seems to need doing constantly!

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who gets stuck in puddles! Isn't it funny how farmers watch from a distance when things like this happen, no doubt shaking their heads with wry amusement before slowly wandering down to help!? :)

Busterbum22: Glad to help where I can. Our estate gets dozens of lorry loads of treated poo from the local sewage plant which they tend to spread at the end of September. Thankfully they do dig it in quickly, but when those lorries arrive, so do the flies! Ugh! :(

It's a real shame that the previous people dumped "stuff" on the field - one of my pet hates is a lack of consideration for the land - it's one thing producing a muck heap, but another diumping allsorts on a drain! Not sure that I fancy digging that much by hand though. Can't you get a tractor and loader? That would make short work of it (and be much more fun!)!

Our drains are pretty much non-existent. I'm hoping to mole plough this year and maybe to redig some of the old ditches at the bottom of the field in the hope that will improve things for next year. Clay soil isn't fun in winter (although it's great in summer!)

[Busterbum22]

KARL,

just one more question when is the best time to apply weed killer, and what is the best sort that be safe for my ponies.
i think that will be all i need.

thanks again in advance.

[CarolineR]

Hi,

this really depends on budget and type of weeds you are trying to control. Also whether you want to spot weed kill ,or spray completely. We sprayed field completely last year, and will do the same this year, then hopefully we will be able to get away with spot killing and topping to keep them under control.

Grazon kills most things, but not buttercups and is safe to graze 7-14 days after application. But this stuff is very expensive.

If you have a local farmer around to help you with spraying, then he will be able to provide MCP very very cheaply about £20 for 7 acres we used last year. You have to keep the ponies off for 4 weeks though. This knocks backs well established weeds, but will kill younger shoots so over a period of time the weeds will dissappear, hopefully. It will however, not kill off completely creeping thistles or buttercups. Nor will it touch Ragwort. I do recommend that you speak to your local farmer as they are very helpful and will know the best stuff to spray for the type of soil and weeds you have.

MCP destroys, docks, nettles, most thistles as well as other non grass growing herbs that may be natural.

I know horses are supposed to like nettles, but I have never seen our boys eat any by choice so am not bothered by them being sprayed off.

Best times to spray is twice a year if you can, firstly in spring when young shoots are about 1-2 inchces in height, then again September time to knock them back for the winter, but again this really depends on yur field and the exent of the weed problem.

If you have good grazing generally, but weeds around the outside, then I would spot spray whereever possible. Please also be very careful as you may need a licence to spray good weed killers to do the job, hence why its better to get the farmer to do so as he will have the licence and get hold of weed killers much cheaper than we can.

Hope this helps.

[KarlR]

I know that with Grazon 90, the best time (the only really effective time) is when the weeds have half a dozen leaves. The Dow site is very good in this respect...

http://www.dowagro.com/uk/Grassland_products/grazon90/usage.html

Grazon is very good with long term effectiveness. It's relatively harmless to horses after the first couple of weeks.

As for other chemicals, we've only used MCPA (the weed bit of "weed and feed"!) which can be applied any time but is less effective on well established weeds and offers little protection against weeds re-establishing themselves after a month or so. It's very cheap (unlike Grazon), but it is a bit of a "nasty" chemical - one of the old breed of weedkillers.

My choice would be Grazon if you can afford it - it's widely reputed as the best, but it IS expensive!! :(

[Busterbum22]

thanks will get some of the grazon i do have some tall nettles, and a some docks and branbles but mainly those water weeds things. or bog weeds whatever they are called. i believe down southish that they sell them in garden centre, although for the life of me i can't think why anyone would want them. I have been very good and walked all the field and picked up all the rubbish, water bottles paper bags, empty haylage bags, and black plastic wrapping, there is just the muck heap to do and one section of the field, which has sort of been dug out i think her kids were using it for ramps for the motorbikes, but down here is where i will have to fence off for this year, just so they can go out in the big field. apart for the land having been partly cut away, there are all sorts down there including a gas bottle, filing cabinet, old washing machine, jcb tyres, more plastic wrapping well just loaded with rubbish really, unbelieveable what she has thrown in her field. mind u the back one was just as bad, that had 5 yes that's right 5 scrap cars in. yes i do mean real motor cars fiats 3 of them and 2 fords. maybe she thought the horses would go and do the shopping for her.

thanks again.
yvette

[KarlR]

LOL! :) Oh dear, Yvette! Some people eh?

As for the Grazon, you'll probably need to get a contractor to spray it for you - licences and all that - although if you have a friendly agricultural merchant they will sometimes sell you some "for cash"! :)

[Pam F]

Karl and Caroline - I had a look at the web site where you got your harrows from. I wondered whether you got the mounted or pole version.

We have a tiny mounted set which is great for little corners but that's about it. The big chain harrows on a pole are fine but a pain to handle. Our land is partly on a slope and part ridge and furrow and we were not sure how a mounted set would cope with the land. If you have the mounted type, do you think the harrow bit hangs down sufficiently to cope with ridge and furrow type land? Hard to explain what I mean but I'm sure you get the picture. I can see it would be fine working across the ridges but not sure about working along them if you see what I mean.

[KarlR]

Hi Pam,

We got the mounted version. Having seen only the pole type used before I was a little apprehensive, but they are marvellous. I cannot imagine how I would have coped with the pole type now - I like to get into the corners and underneath the electric fencing, so I reverse a lot. By picking up the harrows a foot and reversing I can get into the tightest area (such as the grass school that I did last week). With a pole harrow you can't of course reverse! :) Also, the frame seems to keep the harrow stretched more evenly and I can also drive with them attached from the yard to the paddocks without "harrowing the lane"!

As for the land, it is mostly gentle rolling hills, but we do have a couple of areas which have noticeable ridges (furrows 6-8 feet deep, 20-30 feet across, if that makes sense). The draft control on the tractors 3 point linkage seems to pick the harrow up sufficiently to clear the ground on the downward slope, but doesn't always drop quickly enough to hit the ground as I go back over the ridge top (unless I go very slowly!). See picture!

I've never tried harrowing along the direction of the ridges because that would leave my (very tall) tractor at a dangerous angle on the sides of the ridges - I always go "up and down".

I wouldn't recommend the mounted ones for towing behind a car because you need to be able to adjust their height or have the draft control do it for you.

Note the copyright notice on the picture...I feel sure that the Tate Gallery will be in touch soon! :D http://homepages.tesco.net/kqr/Furrows.gif

[Janice Corbett]

Excellent drawing Karl! Are you sure it's not to scale?

[KarlR]

LOL! :D Thanks Janice.

Well, it might be, but I'm not offering any guarantees! :)

[Pam F]

Thanks Karl. Love the drawing!

From what you say I may bite the bullet and buy the mounted version. Which width did you go for? I was thinking of the middle one.

Our ridge and furrow is not so steep, the furrows probably only 2 feet deep and the distance between ridge tops about 10 feet. We rolled and harrowed last year in both directions with no trouble - I was worried Massey might tip but that was just me panicing.

Local farmers tell us we should rather use those rigid spiked harrows (don't know what they are called) as these will aerate our clay soil more but all they seem to do is gouge great slits in the soil. I would have thought chain harrows are designed for the job so those are the ones we should use.

[Janice Corbett]

Pam I think the others are spring-tyne harrows and are better for aerating than the chain harrows - it really depends on what you want to achieve as to what type you have and use. We, too, are on clay soil but we stick to our chain harrows as they do the job we want - ie level the paddocks and pull out the crap.

[KarlR]

I went for the 8' one, which I think is the middle one. The big one with wngs was much more expensive and the smaller one wouldn't have covered the tractor tyre marks up!

I wouldn't expect you to have a problem with such shallow furrows. (Our furrows are so large they were drawn in on a C19th map of the area!!:eek: I assume they formed part of the lake/waterway system for the abbey.)

I think that spring harrows come in many types, and the lighter tined ones can do a very good job. Some, such as the "super-harrow" are apparently gaining in popularity, but I've been told by a couple of reliable sources that they are no more effective than a good chain harrow.

If you want to aerate (and it's apparently a good thing for clay soil), then there are some very good aerators on the market. They are like a roller with large spikes on which cause slits in the ground to a depth of 6 inches or more. Pretty radical, but I'm told effective.

[Pam F]

Yes it's the 8' one we were considering. We saw them at the Lincs Show last year and nearly bought one then.

Thanks for the info. From what you and Janice say it looks like we could do with both sorts of harrow, the chain harrow to get rid of the dead grass etc and our spring tine one to do the aeration job. Oh well, more expence!

[KarlR]

Yes - like horses, there seems to be a never ending list of "it would be nice to have a ..."!

We're currently hoping to get a topper later in the year (although the horses are managing to do quite well at the moment!).

Good luck with the harrow. I'll try and remember to post some tractor and harrow pictures" later!

[KarlR]

Finally, I remembered! Here is a picture of our tractor "scrappy":

http://homepages.tesco.net/kqr/P0000010.jpg

and here is one of our harrow so that Pam can see whether it would hang down enough:

http://homepages.tesco.net/kqr/P0000007.jpg

[Pam F]

Thanks for the photos. Scrappy doesn't look scrappy atall - have you got some before and after pics? I'll try and dig some out of our Massey - Andy spent most of last year doing it up.

I didn't realise the harrows would hang down so much - having seen the pic I think they will do an excellant job for us. We spent all weekend rolling with a set of borrowed Cambridge rolls (must find ourselves a set at a farm sale) and harrowed our hay field with the diddy spiked harrows. I think we will get a set like yours to do the rest of the paddocks.

Managed to get a bit low on deisel and so Massey kept cutting out due to airlocks. Got it sorted now - warning: be sure to keep your deisel well topped up!

[Janice Corbett]

John managed to find an old spreader at a farm sale last year - didn't look like it had been used for years. We freed up all the workings and put new tyres on it - and this weekend we fertilised three of our paddocks!! It's excellent.

We too are looking for a topper this year Karl.

[KarlR]

Thanks! Scrappy most certainly was, but is now much better, thanks to extensive welding, filling and repainting! :) Here's a couple of labeled pictures (although they don't show all the dodgy electrical bits and seized up mechanical ones!

I know about the diesel bit - the previous owner of this tractor couldn't figure out why it it kept stalling when running for any time. I finally managed to find that it kept getting airlocks in the the injector pump. The housing had a leak in it, and the fuel pump was blocking up contantly...an inline filter and some sealant cured that problem! :) So far I haven't managed to run out of fuel, but I do now know how to bleed a tractor fuel system (in my sleep!:))

http://homepages.tesco.net/kqr/Small2.jpg

http://homepages.tesco.net/kqr/Small1.jpg

[Janice Corbett]

Karl & Co - I'm looking for advice!!

We need to buy a topper/grass cutter of some description and have to decide which!

We have just 5 acres divided into 5 virtually equal paddocks, 2 on the flat, 3 on a gradient. We also have a perimeter 'bridlepath ride' which is 8' wide (wider at the corners to accomodate harrows/roller etc). Would we be best to chose -

A topper to go on our tractor: likely to be less 'nickable' than a ride on mower, bigger cutting area, easier to store (can go in equipment pound with other stuff).

A ride on mower: can just jump on and go but is 'nickable' and would have different storage requirements.

Help!! Some guidance/opinions needed folks!

Janice

[KarlR]

Hi Janice,

Sorry - I've been offine for some time - my company went under so I've been busy searching for a new job. (Still not found one yet, but some hopefuls!).

Anyway...

You can probably guess my opinion. Yep - get one to attach to the tractor! Should be cheaper than a big ride-on mower too (I'm discounting the cheap B&Q ones which are probably more suited to a large lawn!). Also, being wider they will make shorter work of the paddocks.

Obviously, a tractor based one will be less manouverable, so they might be a problem if you have lots of small areas to cut, but at 1 acre each a tractor one should be fine and you can raise/lower them to back into corners (I like to do all the edges!).

You're probably right about the drive-on one being nickable...I understand they are and so they probably need a secure lock up area. Most tractor stuff isn't nickable so we just a leave them on the yard (although we do live in a pretty crime-free area).

As regards the make, I saw some excellent (and reasonably priced) toppers at the same place I bought the harrow from. They were very solid, ran on slides and were very adjustable: they even allowed a cut right down to ground level. See http://www.btinternet.com/~anne.armstrong1/page5.html.

Failing that, your local agricultural merchant will probably have some in (although we found our merchant much more expensive!).

Good luck and let me know what you decide (even if it's a ride-on one! :))

[KarlR]

Oops. Too many full stops!

Try this...

http://www.btinternet.com/~anne.armstrong1/page5.html

[Janice Corbett]

Hi Karl

Sorry to hear about the job - what a dreadful blow!

I bought the topper - it's brilliant! Such a good investment!

Keep in touch.

Jx

[KarlR]

Hi Janice,

Yes - very upsetting really. Especially since this is the second time that it has happened in a row and they haven't paid me since March! It certainly puts paid to any plans for a topper this year I suspect! Ah well - now my CV is out there and I'm getting 3-4 calls a day from agencies, so it can't be long now!

Back to toppers...

Did you buy the one from Amstrong & Holmes or another one? I thought the A&H one looked very good, but a long way from you. If not, what make did you buy / where from / etc?

[Janice Corbett]

We bought it through a local ag machinery supplier - can't remember the make of it!! I'll have a look. It has skids and a wheel at the back - you can set it very low or up to as much as about a 6" high cut.

Good luck with the job hunting - when I've been in your position I've tried to believe that everything happens for a reason and that there must be something better waiting for me round the corner - it usually is true!!

[KarlR]

Thanks again Janice.

Now - can I ask some questions...?

How are you finding the topper: easy to use?

If you have undulating ground, does the topper follow it OK?

Does it chop the grass very finely or leave it in lengths?

Does it have a very clean cut or (like the estate topper here) simply hack it to pieces?

Do you have it fixed on all 3 points of the linkage when in use?

What size is it?

(If you don't mind me asking) how much did you pay for it.

Thanks in advance for all these answers!! :D

[Janice Corbett]

It's a Wessex 715. I bought the 5' one because our tractor is only a 35hp - the 5' one needed a minimum 25hp to drive it but the 6' one required a minimum 35hp - our tractor is old and I didn't want to 'strain' it but also if I have to buy a new one I didn't want to be forced into having to get a big one! I would like to buy a new one of the smallholder type ones if I have to replace the tractor at any time.

Easy to use - yes! I can reverse it into the tightest of corners now! I had to practice for a little while though.

Our ground does undulate but only a little. We are on the side of a hill, so have 3 sloping fields and two flattish ones. All round the outside of our land we have put an inner fence to create a private 'bridlepath' of a minimum 8' wide - at the corners it's wider to allow for the tractor plus whatever 'implement' I need to use at the time, harrows, roller, topper etc. The topper obviously is attached to the hydraulic arm things and it has skids and a rear wheel which can be used to adjust height - therefore it bridges between the arms and it's wheel if you are going over a dip (does that make sense?) and takes the tops off any lumps it finds. None of this is a problem on our land but if you had furrows or very undulating land you would need to travel across the undulations I expect.

When I first used it the particular field had quite long grass in it and it chopped it like hay cuttings. I've since used it on a field with less growth but with some slightly longer bits and it's has cut this more like lawn toppings. You can just keep going over the cut bits and it will chop the chopped bits further - make sense?

It has a good clean cut.

Yes we fix it to all 3 linkage points.

We paid £1150 incl VAT. There were cheaper options but the quality was not there - the metalwork was thinner and they seemed generally more tinny and less robust. Ours has the cutting bar with 'loose' bits on the end - I can't explain this very well; some have just a solid blade like a huge flymo blade, then others have the main blade but also bits on the end that are sort of bolted on. This was the type that our local farmers told us to get.

Jx

[Pam F]

Hi Karl, so sorry about your job. I do hope something turns up soon.

Just thought I'd mention we're very happy with the topper we bought last year. We got it from Holton Tractors, Market Rasen and I think they import them from the US. It was very reasonabley priced and seemed more robust than others we had looked at.

We've got the 6ft one (I think) and it has the 2 big solid blades as Janice described. It copes fine with our undulating ground and gives a clean cut. We also use the 3 point linkage and can adjust the height of cut by altering the position of the back wheel. It doesn't give as good a cut as a hay mower thing but ofcourse they are much more expensive.

Anyway, worth a look at I think.

[KarlR]

Thanks Janice and Pam!

All very helpful answers.

The only ones that I have seen have "flymo-style" blades, so I'll have to look out for bits on the end (although I can't picture them right now!:))

I've certainly seen some very flimsy ones too - but the A&H one that I saw was very robust indeed.

The hay cutters are very neat, but do a different job I think, since they are intended to keep the grass in long lengths. For topping, something that turns it to mush is much better!

Thanks again. When we eventually get ours I'll let you know how it goes - we now have much more land (about 14 acres) so topping is even more a priority!

[Pam F]

Because we do our topping while the horses are still in the field I was worried that a machine which turned the cuttings to a mush could be a problem causing colic if the horses ate some, as with lawn clippings. I think I was over reacting and we haven't had any trouble so far.

[KarlR]

I'm quite careful in that respect too. We had our fields topped recently and were left with A LOT of cuttings on the floor. I wouldn't allow the horses onto them until they were thoroughly dried out, but then again we have a rotation of (currently 7!) paddocks so that was easy to do.

I don't think the odd bit of cut grass will harm them though and they seem to ignore cuttings when there is fresh grass around!

[Persona]

I am selling my topper if anyone might be interested - it's in miscellaneous section on classifieds.