New Here...scared of being kicked

[GypsyIrishCob]

Hi I'm new here...though I have been reading this site since before I bought Danny, my Gypsy cob. 15.3 h.h. Piebald only 5 and very green. A little green of me really, as I'm 48 and have only just started riding again after 30 years break. My main worry, he is quite stroppy about picking his hind feet up, and I worry as I want to pick them out but am terrified of being kicked. I don't even know why really, as I've never been kicked before. At the moment, am waiting for the farrier to trim his hooves and maybe have him re-shod...Or not, if the farrier thinks he will be ok barefoot. I thought I'd see how the farrier copes, and copy his technique....but feel a coward waiting to see if someone else gets their head kicked in first, before I try.....Any tips please?:eek:

[Jay.o]

im not really sure.
but does he threaten you that he is going to kick ?
i mean does he go to kick but doesnt kick out and is just warning?
what does he actually do ?

[Laetitia]

Put a hat on, and face away from him. I'd leave til the farrier comes if its not too long, or get someone confident to help you. Once you are confident you'll be O.K. If you think he is going to kick you he might just pick up on that so try not to think it. L

[Wally]

Remember the closer you are the less likely a kick will do you any harm at all.

Why are you concerned, has he made out he would have a potshot at you ever?

The thing which will get you along fine with any horse is try to assume he won't kick, take a deep breath and be confident....well act it any way.

One of our Shetlands swung his pants at me at the weekend, he wanted dinner, I wanted to get to the forge, he turned round and pinned me to the wall with his bum, so I shoved back to the amusement of onlookers, the pair of us were squared up bum to bum having a pant swinging competition, I assume mine are bigger than his and I can get away with murder! He could have won, but he backed off as he thought my pants were bigger than his, it's all psycological.

With this in mind it probably wouldn't even cross his mind to kick a farrier as they usually move around feet and legs with an air of confidence.

[Peace]

Are you worried about being kicked because Danny flails his back feet about as you pick them up? My pony, Quanah, does this: he's three, and right now most of his weight is in his hindquarters (front end has yet to catch up!:p ), so I figure it's just hard for him to balance. (BTW, I'm 42, and this is my first horse!:) )

Linda Tellington-Jones writes that one should "circle" the foot before putting it down again, as this helps the horse find his balance. I have no idea if this will work, but my plan is to start by picking his feet up just for a second or two at a time and circling them before I put them down again. I'm a little worried about the kicking issue, too, but I'm just gonna wear a helmet, stand close, and keep my face out of the way!

If it works, I'll let you know!:D

Wally: LOL! I wish we had a picture of you and the pony during that maneuver! :D

[virtuallyhorses]

I'm still giggling at the thought of Wally's pants competition :D I've only ever been threatened by a horse in the field and I must admit I probably err on the side of stupidity when it comes to trusting that horses won't kick when I'm wandering around them.

In the field I see off a threat with a threat - usually a step forward into his space and a swing of the halter\lead. If he lines me up I get quite 'snitty' and drive him off several metres making sure that he is quite clear that I am not someone to point his bum at. I agree with Wally, its all bluff and you can play that game too - you can make a big show of calling their bluff without getting in danger yourself and the more you call their bluff the more they respect you.

[Emma_G_NZ]

Hi there, Just thought I would welcome you to the board :)
I would agree that he is probably growing and he is finding it a bit hard to balance, and at his age he probably isnt used to his hooves being picked up alot. What did the previous owners do with him?

[GypsyIrishCob]

Hi Everybody,
Danny hasn't threatened to kick me personally. But a very experienced lady at our livery had a go at picking his feet, and he did swing his bum at her, and made an attempt at a half hearted kick...enough to bother me , wimp that I am. The lady in question also lost interest rather rapidly, and left quickly saying, little and often, just stick with it. As a typical Gypsy Cob, I imagine he has never been used to anything much. The dealer I bought him from said he had never been brushed before he cames to his yard, and he was only there five weeks (Fresh from Ireland) before I bought him. also he was in his first pair of shoes. When I got him to my yard, it was obvious he was unused to being in a stable, though he has settled to the stable/paddock routine very quickly, and plods up to meet me when it's time to come in for tea. So, in every other respect, Danny is a very laid back, charming Irish horse. Though green, and so I had a friend take him back to basics for a couple of weeks. Lunging, long reigning, then short hacks out around the village. He is due to be shod hopefully at the weekend, and I think I will wait and see what occurs. I just don't like feeling apprehensive......When all around me are so utterly confident. Thankyou all for being so friendly.

[galadriel]

Just from my various experiences with horses who're unused to/uncomfortable with hind foot handling...my guess would be that it *wasn't* a half hearted kick. It's very difficult for a horse to learn to balance on three legs. It's also a *very* artificial position that we put them in, to pick out their hind feet or to shoe them.

So when you pick up a hind hoof, sometimes the inexperienced horse--or even an experienced horse!--can sometimes yank the foot to try to keep his balance. It looks a little like an attempt at a kick, but it's really just a horse trying to do what you asked of him without being horribly uncomfortable.

Given that he's just gotten his first set of shoes (shoing takes quite a while) and he's unused to having his hind feet handled, he's probably very *sore*, poor little guy. He would have been held in that position long enough to have his feet trimmed/shaped, then the shoe shaped to the foot, then the shoe nailed on. Each of those can take a while--If he wasn't holding still each of those would have taken even longer! Poor guy probably used muscles he didn't know he had, and is still feeling it (and remembering how unpleasant it was).

So yes, little and often is the idea. When you pick up his foot and put it back down--and praise him--he'll learn that 1) you want him to pick up his foot and you like it, and 2) it isn't always unpleasant, doesn't always last a long time and make him hurt, and 3) he'll start learning *how* to keep his balance on 3 legs. If he has a sweet temperament, then he really isn't likely to try to kick you. He may snatch his hoof away from you if he loses his balance, but not to try to hurt you--just to try to help himself.

[CobNut]

I have an Irish-bred cob mare, who I bought 5 years ago when she was 4 1/2 and newly over from Ireland.

She's got the sweetest nature imagineable BUT she does not like having her legs handled. And I mean she REALLY DOES NOT LIKE IT. I dread to think what they did to her before she came over, but it has really traumatised her. I wonder whether yours could be the same??

Basically, it took time and patience, and yes for a long time it needed two of us to be able to pick her feet out.

Try lots of different things, and see which she's happiest with. Listen to her, and go with her preferences: 'cos there's no "right way" and "wrong way" as such to lift a horse's foot and pick its hoof. If you can find what she prefers, go with that.

Things to think about: is she easier if she's tied, or held? (Whisky is FAR better held than tied for this.) Does it help or hinder if she has something to eat (a bucket with a handful fo carrots in it, say)? Does she prefer you to start with your hand at the top of her leg and run it down towards the hoof before you pick the foot up, or does she prefer you to go straight in at the hock? Does she prefer you to start with her front feet and then go to her back feet, or the other way around? Or to go down one side and then the other?

Ask these questions - and take note of her answers. It will not give you a magical solution straight away, but it will help you to work with her to find a solution.

[GypsyIrishCob]

hi All,
Danny hasn't just been shod Gadriel, it was at least ten weeks ago, because when I got him five weeks ago, he was due to be shod again, but arrived with a virus, and so I had to quarantine him for two weeks, thus appointment had to be cancelled....Interesting point though CobNut...because there is another Irish Cob at our place actually bought from some gypsys, and she is the same....lovely nature, but can't abide her back feet being touched...The vet told the owner it's because the gypsy's have a tendency to tether them on roadside verges by a back leg?
Makes sense I suppose. Thank you everyone for your advive and interest....I will certainly persevere.

[virtuallyhorses]

Just had another thought since you mentioned the half-hearted kick - it may not be a kick at all. There are various reflex points on horses (like us) and not all of them are to pressure, some are 'angle' reflexes and this is particularly important for young horses as he may still be learning how and when to control this.

I'll try to explain a little better - the back of the hamstring on the hind legs is a pressure point that normally results in a 'kick' reflex, as humans we can use this in a controlled fashion to ask for 'pick up your leg'.

Same with actually picking up the legs, when you are looking at hooves, shoeing there are several places or angles that you can hold the foot at which activate either 'kick' or 'put down' automatic responses. A common one is when you are trying to look at the angle of a hoof being trimmed you need to look down the leg and eye the bottom of the hoof in relation to the pastern and heel - as it happens putting the hoof in this position is a reflex site for 'put foot down' - it can take horses a long time to learn not to jam their foot down when you put it in this position and even well experienced and mannered horses can find it hard to resist the urge.

With a young horse you not only have the whole learning to balance on 3 legs thing but also learning to resist the natural reflexes issue. I would be tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt, stay close to his body, be calm and deliberate and work slowly when picking up his feet. Remember that with hind feet in particular to start low - holding his feet high will be quite hard for him and more of a balancing act.

:)

[GypsyIrishCob]

VirtuallHorses...Thanks for your advice...I will bear it in mind. Thank you. Peace, thanks, I'd really love to hear how you prgress.

[Peace]

My barn owner's daughter happened to be there today as I was grooming. She's only nineteen, but has grown up with horses and now rides and trains professionally. She is probably the most confident person with horses I've ever met.

So I take a deep breath, start for the back feet, and mention how this is not my favorite thing. Helpful child strides over, lifts the back hoof, and Quanah magically finds the ability to balance on three legs like a statue!:p

Whether he'll "remember" he can do this for me tomorrow is anybody's guess, but now I have the little con artist's number!:D

Since your farrier's coming this weekend anyhow, I think waiting to see how Danny does with him is probably a good idea. I bet he'll be fine, as Wally said (confidence is obviously key here!), and then you'll feel better about doing it yourself.

[virtuallyhorses]

:) Yes, Peace mine likes to have a joke too - his favourite is 'oh you wanted THAT foot' as he pretends not to feel which one I am asking for and carefully lifts each of the other three in turn and looks at his audience and then at me as if I am some sort of idiot --- oh yes I laugh hysterically at that one

The other one is to perform strange and 'strained' looking efforts to take the weight off a hind I'm asking for and then when I have someone more experienced come down to look at him - miraculously lift the leg high into the 'tucked neatly under my bum' perfect lift at just the barest touch of his hock.

I have even had 'look I can stand on two feet and play with you with my nose!' when spending too much time on something and I hold my breath hoping that he won't try for 'look I can stand on one foot!'

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Peace
Whether he'll "remember" he can do this for me tomorrow is anybody's guess, but now I have the little con artist's number!:D

Hehe. What'd I tell you? Assume he will do it, and you're halfway there.

[Peace]

virtuallyhorses - that's hilarious!:D I've always heard a sense of humor is highly correlated with intelligence - you must have an equine rocket scientist!;)

galadriel - you were absolutely correct.:)

GypsyIrishCob - do let us know how Danny behaves for the farrier!

[mikka]

I love this site - you guys kill me!

Like Wally said, the closer you are to the leg, the less likely the kick (if there is one) will hurt.

[Fraggle]

Hi

I got Sam, my Dales pony about 7 months ago now and he is my first ever pony (I'm 36). He is 5, very green and had never been shod before and had never had his feet picked out regularly or been groomed.

I'm very frightened of being kicked as I was "double barrelled" in the stomach by a pony I walked behind when I was 9 years old. (No permenant damage but a huge. painful bruise!!!).

It took me months to get the courage to actually walk behind Sam to brush his tail and I was convinced that he'd kick me if I picked out his back feet.

It's all just a matter of trust - I have to trust Sam and he has to trust me. He still has trouble standing on 3 legs whilst I pick his feet out but we've developed a routine and he now picks up his back feet for me as I head towards them. We work on a reward system and being a greedy Dales pony he believes that every scrap of food is equally important!!! LOL

As some one else on this board said- there is no right or wrong way and you'll develop your own routine. One thing I would say though is that you need to assert your dominance over your horse. I don't mean in a nasty way, but Sam knows that I don't take any rubbish from him - if he messes about, he doesn't get the treat.

Wally's pants swinging session springs to mind - you don't actually have to have bigger pants but your horse has to THINK you do!!!!

Trust me, if I can manage to do all this, anyone can!!!!

:D

[CobNut]

Something else to try if things get really difficult, GGC - again because there may be a similarity between our two cobs.

I think Whisky probably was beaten, quite severely, when she was younger. I discovered by accident that when she's prattign about, if you just pick up a schooling whip, show it to her, and put it back down again where she can see it, she usually starts behaving herself and lets me get on and do her feet.

I don't LIKE doing this, because it's obviously recalling some pretty uncomfortable memories. But it IS effective, and if there's nobody else about when I need to pick her feet out in order to ride, then needs must ...

The good news is that as the bond of trust between us has become stronger, dealing with her legs and feet has become easier. Now, most of the time, you wouldn't know she had a problem at all.