what signals for a flying change

[lamprellsarah]

i do show jumping on my mare occasionally, what signals do i give to get a flying change and how do i teach her to do it!!

also i am schooling a 6 year old 17.3HH mare and i think she could do them but i can't think of what signals it is to get it!!!

[Lgd]

Collected, uphill, balanced canter. Half halt and give aid for new canter lead.

[DebO]

Look at this site may help

http://www.classicaldressage.co.uk/Flying_Change/flying_change.html

[Dizzy]

I know this doesn't answer your question about the aids, but this summer my friends horse was jumped in BHSJA Novice by a lass who owns a point to point yard and does a fair bit of showjumping. With Herby (my friends horse) she always dropped back to trot, to change leg, and she wasn't the only one - I saw quite few.

Earlier this year I was at Equus, and saw Richard Davison and John Lassiter, both gave demos of teaching flying changes - it was amazing to watch. I can't remember exactly all that was said, I do have it on video, but its loaned out at the moment.

Basically they worked 2 large circles, like a figure of 8, but as they left one circle, dropped back to walk and walked say 5 strides, then asked for canter on the opposite leg. Then cantered that circle, dropping back to walk, walking 4 strides, ask for canter on the opposite ect. until it was down to 1 stride ask for canter on the opposite leg, then half halt ask for canter. They also used counter canter on a figure of 8, but my memory fails me about that one.

The Lassiters were amazing, John did the talking and his wife Char rode. They finished off with one time flying changes - her and her horse did about 50. You could see her seat and legs working, the concentration and focus for both her and her horse, was out of this world. If you ever get the chance to see them, go - you'll be inspired.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Lesley

[Cochise]

I get them OVER the fences! so not really a flying change, but I always land on the right leg. Over the jump, I have his bend all ready to pop onto that leg. It doesnt help when a change is required when not over fences, but he sorts himself out, before I even think about it, he has changed :p Im lucky!!:D

[mikka]

Cochise, I think what you describe is amazing. Good work.

I've only ridden one horse who offered flying lead changes (without skill on my part). He was a highly trained, of all things, Canadien, and would've made any rider look great. He had good upward movement (again, nothing to do with me) and was so push-button that he was able to figure out my clumsy leg aids even if grossly/wrongly timed/placed. He would change leads with just the slightest of leg/weight cues....it was like driving a Ferrari.

Collection was essential.

[Cochise]

Originally posted by mikka
Cochise, I think what you describe is amazing. Good work.



lol thank you Mikka!! its not really anything amazing on my part, its just having a lovely wee horse that can sort himself out so beautifully, its just looking in the direction of the next jump and being focused on turning that way after the jump!!if his head is that way, he cant help but land on the right leg!!
having a smaller striding horse (very upright in his shoulder) means that I need to be on the right leg to cut the corners very tightly in show jumping, because we dont have the long reaching stride to cover the ground, he's awesome!!

[* Groomette *]

Cochise might I remind you that you will not have that horse forever, and you may be "lucky" now, having him change himself and all, but in the long run you are going to have to learn. Your idea for the bend at the fence is pretty darn good, have you ever tried it with another horse? I think it would work..it surely saves ya some fret in the end.

Ugh I can im barely mastering my simple changes, no where near a flying change. My instructor has the hardest time getting them as well...sorry I dont know the aids!

-Groomie

[Cochise]

Groomette, I use this approach with every horse I show jump, and it works fine.
I will have Cheeky forever, never plan to sell him!! I can do changes on the flat, but it saves time which is so precious while in the ring to get them right in the first place from landing after the jump.
Whatever works!! I dont think that there is a strict textbook for success!!:)

[* Groomette *]

Forever is a long time, and unfortunatly horses are not immortal and neither are we.

What I was concerned about was having him doing flying changes whenever it was "needed" without any asking. Not all horses will do that, and Cheeky will not be around for the rest of your riding career, or life.

-Groomie

[Cochise]

Groomette, Im not going to be riding for the rest of my life. And as just said, there is no textbook for success, and if I can get changes over fences, I can get changes over fences. I am not preaching to anyone else that they have to do this, or attacking anyone else for doing this or not.
It works for me.
And as I said above, I can get flying changes on the flat, just that Cheeky often beats me to it. When I am show jumping, I am not in a dressage competition and my best classes are speed classes.
I have no concerns about it only being Cheeky that I ride for the rest of his life and as I said above, I HAVE and CAN ride other horses to success.
Dont see why this should get so personal, I only said what works for me and you have jumped on me for it. Im not saying that everyone has to ride this way, so please leave it at that, thank you.

[* Groomette *]

I'm sorry was never meant to be a "personal" issue. I was simply pointing out something, I'm sorry if you were offended. I understand your method, and what you do, was just pointing some things out. I did not jump on you..few suggestions is all. By my doing so does not make you or your horse any less important than they did in the start, and I accept what you do. Just don't like it when people rush to conclusions of being jumped on when I was simply advising something.

Just a quick question. With him anticipating your asking for a change and doing it himself..if you were in a dressage ring and maybe wanted him on that lead and he changed because he thought you were going to ask..where does that leave you? A horse must not anticipate so much as he does things himself without riders asking. It may seem great but sometimes..jsut sometimes you can get something you dont want, which is no good.

-Groomie

[Cochise]

No worries, just the way that I read it.:)

[FreedomStar]

hrm, I'm still struggling with flying changes, and it's hard for me, but what I do when I'm attempting a flying change is a half halt, and then asking for the other lead like you would normally.

[andi42]

I've worked with a few horses on lead changes. As said before, most important thing is a balanced, uphill canter.. a horse on the forehand cannot change leads properly! You may want to work on lead changes of poles to begin with, so that the horse (and you) think of it as two steps. You must hold your outside rein so that the horse does not fall out the outside shoulder, and have your outside leg supporting as well as asking for the new canter lead. Often, a half halt helps going into the change as it balances the horse and encourage them to change from the hind limbs to the front, which is how a proper change should work. Just remember to keep the horse balanced, holding outside rein and supporting with outside leg.

[james]

Careful trying flying changes. An instructor had us all try in a lesson last year over a pair of poles and my horse mangled his legs and we both nearly went down.

[Tootsie4U]

Hey cochise - sounded that way to me too :p I was wondering if groomie had something against you!!! Even though we may not all agree on what people post, we usually dont comment on it in that way!! Groomie - I see what you were trying to say, but OUCH!

[tarkia]

If your horse lands on the wrong leg after a jump you should change legs quickly.
Just sit deeply in the saddle and ask for canter on the other leg so just swap your leg position to the opposite that it was.

[Cochise]

Originally posted by Tootsie4U
Hey cochise - sounded that way to me too :p I was wondering if groomie had something against you!!! Even though we may not all agree on what people post, we usually dont comment on it in that way!! Groomie - I see what you were trying to say, but OUCH!


hehe, no skin off my nose! I was just really pleased that my horse can do that! She hasnt replied in a long time to anything. But anyway, we sorted it out in PM's :D