Is this good advice? Just had a jumping lesson.

[fluffy_betty]

** UPDATED ** NEED MORE HELP!!

Had a jumping lesson tonight.

I've posted lots of times about my mare - she is very dominant and really hates being told what to do. We've made a lot of progress over the last year and I've found the best way to ride her is just sit quietly and avoid arguements. However, as she has got fitter she has started to revert to her old ways.

Anyway, tonight instructor made me get really tough with her. She made me shorten my reins right up, brace myself against her when she gets fast and collect her in front of the jumps. I could feel her back end coming right underneath and she went all bouncy and energetic. She jumped really nice over the first few jumps although I had to hold her very hard in front.

As the jumps got bigger, however, she started refusing. They were only about 2'9'' so nothing massive but she just got right in close and stopped dead. She was messing up related distances, getting in too close and hitting the jumps hard.

Now everything my instructor said in theory made sense - she said the mare has a very active back end but all the energy tends to go straight out the front, she said she has no respect for her rider which I knew was true although I don't like to admit it, etc etc. The way she was telling me to ride made perfect sense in my head and I've seen it work on other clients' horses.

The thing is, When I let her jump her own way, she sorts the strides out and makes a nice shape - all I really have to do is steer. She does go fast and pull very hard but we always go clear. Until tonight I'd never known her to refuse a jump, or knock one down, and it left me feeling uneasy. I'm not the most confident jumper anyway and refusals really get to me.
In her previous home she went hunting, XC schooling etc but she also jumped BSJA up to newcomers so she knows what she is doing.

Now I'm confused - is she having a paddy because I'm suddenly telling her what to do or am I messing her about when she is trying to do her job?

[Iron Maiden]

Hmmmm I don't really like to ride like that, I try to just maintain a contact into the jump to keep the horse 'uphill' & balanced but not to the extent that I'm interfering and distracting the horse from it's job - getting over the jump. There's probably a balance to be struck, she shouldn't just pee off with you into the jumps and completely ignore you, but you don't want to be arguing with her like that at the roots of the fence. Perhaps you could try getting hold of her and making her listen as you turn towards the jump, but then soften your hands a little for the last 3 or so strides into the fence so she can focus? Don't chuck the contact at her, but stop bracing against her. If she doesn't normally stop she's telling you something, and wrestling with an opinionated mare is sometimes not the best way to deal with them!

[EmilyShowjumper]

my old pony was like that :)

i had an instructor who made me hold her into the bottom of the fences to make her 'think' and concentrate on what she was doing and listen to me. thing is that isnt what happened

in the end i had a pony with no confidence as from holding her to much she was stopping and smacking fences similar to what your mares doing and it took an awful lot to get her jumping well again

when you have an opinionated 'dominat' horse that likes to do things their own way i feel the best thing to do is just allow them to and instead of forcing them you try and get them to come round gently. that way they are a lot happier to do their job and because of their nature most of them do it well (as you horse has jumped up to senior NC)

I wouldnt fight her as at the end of the day shes a horse and is much bigger and stronger than you. id just sit quietly and let her do it her way :)

thats just my opinion from experience

[RachelEvent]

last 3 strides belong to the horse, so you do need to stop bracing and soften slightly in those few strides before the fence so that the horse feels it has the freedom to be able to jump. RI advice doesn't sound good to me, but it's hard to know without seeing!

[Sophie..*]

Friends horse is like this, and she got the same advice and she ignored it because her horse started crashing into the fences :/ She always goes clear and has gone to wales (cricklands) today so she must be doing something right!!

[fluffy_betty]

Thanks guys, looks like she will be free to do it her way from now on and hopefully she hasn't lost too much confidence after several hefty whacks to her legs in the course of our lesson. Will go with my gut instinct in future :D

[eml]

Instructors often seem to struggle with this sort of horse.

Daughter has had advice ranging from 'hold' as you have been advised to 'jump then halt' or walk almost to jump.

Fortunately this one has literally never stopped although she is really careless at speed. What seems to work best is to hold the canter in a fairly forward rythm let her lock onto the jump then let her go.

Years ago I jumped a very forward pony who when held cantered sideways but again once locked onto the jump not only needed to be allowed, but actively ridden to go forward.

The problem with just allowing the horse to go forward at its own speed is that you will struggle with technical courses.

[~*sugarlump*~]

i agree with eml in that i think with hard courses your mare could struggle.

showjumpers should be able to lengthen and shorten their stride, so the problem with going flat out is that the stride will be quite long.

as you have said she has always been used to going for the long one, so when she is asked to put in those extra strides an shorten up, she is going to struggle as shes never done it before.
tbh i would be inclined to go straight back to canter and trotting poles. get that short bouncy canter back over poles, then work it up to raised poles, then small grids.
its just teaching her something that she hasnt been asked to do for a while.
i do agree that she needs to work out the striding to some degree, but you should be the one dictating the speed most of the way.
personally i like jumping in a nice bouncy active canter as i dont think that speed=impulsion, i think when you make it bouncier and more like a spring.

[fluffy_betty]

Ok so how does this sound?

If I turn her into the fence, allow her to lock onto it then leave her alone to jump it. Straight after landing I take a bit of pull and gather up the canter to get her back end underneath her again and control the turn into the next fence.

Does that sound like a better approach? I've been jumping for years but have very little experience of actually jumping courses and it seems to get so technical as soon as the fences get a bit bigger :confused:

[Iron Maiden]

Sounds good - personally I'd half halt/take a pull four strides-ish out to balance & get the horse on it's bum, but as RE says, last 3 strides you leave hoss alone & let them focus :)

[summerguest]

I have a TB mare that doesn't like the rider 'to ride properly' She happily jumped anything until we started to try and collect her up and then she turned into a crazy kangaroo that bounced and reared and threw herself over the jumps sideways so unbalanced it was getting dangerous. I prefer not to interfere and let her sort herself out cos I'm a wimp. Instructors seem to be split on their opinions with her....from...make her do as she's bloody told..... to....ride her in the way that keeps her calm and happy. I am sure that there must be a happy medium that suits you both....you just have to find it!

[Lessien]

Ok so how does this sound?

If I turn her into the fence, allow her to lock onto it then leave her alone to jump it. Straight after landing I take a bit of pull and gather up the canter to get her back end underneath her again and control the turn into the next fence.

Does that sound like a better approach? I've been jumping for years but have very little experience of actually jumping courses and it seems to get so technical as soon as the fences get a bit bigger :confused:

Don't make such a big deal with the bigger fences just trust your instinct and your horse, do what works for you horses don't all go the same way and have rarely read 'The book'!

Having been in this situation before myself instructors are very good at doing the i know better than you and they aren't the ones sat on the horse!

I'm sure you will be fine but don't be afraid to trust yourself :)

[oinkmoooink]

It sounds to me like she was halfway between having a paddy, and finding it hard to concentrate, id carry it on, for a ehile, you only need to do it for schooling until she learns to calm down with the jumps, then when you go jumping, she should know not to rush.
I have a mare who rushes into jumps i make a funnel like this-
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o121/oinkmoooink/frenches7.jpg
(excuse exagereated position)
You may find she rushes into it the first cople times, then sorts herself out about a stride away, then they enter more sensibly. If she rushes more at bigger jumps, make the funnel a bit narrower at the top, they also tend to make a nicer shape

[mody-chestnut]

I would say that you should let her jump becuase to affilate her for BSJA means she knows what she is doing..!
When i jump my horse i let him figure his own strides, pace etc and i just ride as well as i can!
i keep a light and gentle contact there but just guide him!
it doesnt allways go right but hey!
Your mare will be stropping becuase youa re suddenly askign her to do things she already knows and she can not understand why you are all of a sudden asking her to do it your way when you have both been fine her way!
go back to your old ways!
as for her behaviour ride her through it!
take charge
and tell her she is ebing silly and not aloud to go back to her own way!
good luck (Y) x elinor

[fluffy_betty]

UPDATE - I need more help.

I jumped yesterday for the first time since this lesson.

Anyway, the mare surprised me by taking the first few jumps nice and steady and popping over them happily. We did a few cross poles and spreads, taking it all steady, then a mini course. All OK.

Feeling happier, I took her into an upright about 2'9''. She got way too deep and knocked it down twice. We tried a spread about the same height, got too deep and she had to do a very athletic leap to clear it which resulted in me landing with no stirrups :o we tried it again and after two refusals, finally smashed through it.

I did another couple of little jumps just to finish on a better note, but we've both lost a lot of confidence from taking this new instructors' approach and I don't know how to undo it. My horse used to be really good at working out her own strides but when we go into the jumps at 'my' speed, she doesn't even try - just stops or knocks it down. She wasn't pulling at the jumps, she was accepting that we were going to slower, but then she got up to the jump and just said 'I can't do it'

HELP!! How can I undo what these last 2 sessions have done and get back to how we were before?

[MrKia+Me]

I think that your concentrating too much on the height and holding the horse.

I agree with earlier comments that the last three stride belong to the horse. I would go back to how you were jumpinf albeit faster but then gradually work it down to the last few stride might be fast and just collect on landing.

Is he head coming up before the jump or is she snaking it out low??

Are you still taking a hold or are your reins looser??

Nikki xxxx:)

[Kc..]

If you have been told to hold her are you striding her? Because if your holding her you need to count the strides and find the stride for yourself.

It is extremely hard to be able to see a stride but i could tell you if we are going to take off close or far away from a long way out of the jump.

So put some poles down one before the jump then one as the jump then one after. Learn to see the stride as you approach pole one. I find this has really helped me!

Because if your just letting her go she will be able to find her own stride, but if your holding her your asking her to do it your way therefore you need to make sure the whole action is done your way not just the approach if you see what i mean?

[ginger nut]

Hello you sound very much in a similar situation as me and amber. I too have found that if i mess around with her too much prior to the jumps, she panicks and crashes through :mad:
I have her sussed at home but bringing it all together in a course is so difficult

Earlier on in the year i was still in my fiddling about stage trying to slow her down as she goes everywhere at 100 MPH. Amber lost the plot completely, she wouldn't even WALK over a trotting pole. I thought i had broken her!!

I think looking back she wasn't so much broken as broken hearted that i was trying to change her too much in one hit. :eek:

We have been working on the trust thing since having lots of fun. I tried a UK chaser funride in July and it was out changing moment, she had fun so she jumped well, I had fun so I jumped a little bit bigger than normal and so on.

Jumping in company is a sure way to have fun and will hopefully remind you both of what was before THE LESSON:D