Canter leads

[Merlyn]

I have had my cob for 2 1/2 years now. She was 13 when I got her and unschooled - probably ex driving horse and quite possibly not ridden much, almost certainly not properly "broken in". At the time she couldn't even trot a circle, let alone canter under saddle.

It became clear a long while ago that we have a problem with canter - she is happy to canter on the left lead but not on the right. For over 18 months now we have been able to get the right lead canter over a jump, and we have gradually progressed to getting it over a pole on the ground. But getting it on the flat has us stumped. We have lessons every fortnight from a really good instructor. She is pefectly balanced once she has got the right lead canter over a pole/jump. Can canter a 20 m circle (actually our circles are probably smaller as the area of our field we school in is probably smaller) or a 5 m loop on either rein. She can trot 10 m circles on either rein, and walk much smaller circles. She can do leg yield, quarter pirouttes and turn on the forehand and is learning shoulder in. She can lengthen both trot and canter strides to a certain extent. The vet has checked her out and found nothing wrong, likewise the saddler. Vet and instructor both think she has a mental block about right lead canter. I tend to agree with them. Other riders have tried, to no avail.

We are getting to the point where we have tried just about every trick in the book - I can't even remember every trick we have tried but the list is long and includes such things as looking over outside shoulder when asking for canter, exaggerating inside bend, asking on the straight, asking for canter with an outside bend, asking after many different school movements.

Has anyone had similar problems? Has anyone got any ideas we might not have tried?

[FreedomStar]

Does she get the right lead canter on a circle, and then switches to left lead or something? Since she can canter on a circle, it'd be wise to try getting the canter with a bend, in a corner. A corner is 1/4 of a circle, and the horse naturally should bend in. Maybe she is not supple enough or flexible to the right, so it's harder. Also try getting the canter in a circle, and then turn her straight. Each time, gradually cut down the circle until you're ask for the canter with a slight bend.

[Merlyn]

She can't actually strike off on the right lead on the flat in the first place, be it on the straight or on any size circle in any place. Once we have got the right lead canter over a jump or a pole she doesn't disunite or change legs (well apart from one time when she spooked - did a flying change then spooked again and changed back to the right lead - daft mare!)

[Heather]

Hi Merlyn,

I expect that you have tried the other one you haven't mentioned - asking for canter from rising trot on the wrong diagonal? Just run her into canter- don't worry about any finesse at this stage!- on the worng diagonal, and often this will work - not always I grant you, but frequently it will.

Heather

[Merlyn]

Yes, I have tried that one. I am not kidding when I say I have lost count of the number of tricks I have tried :(
I am beginning to wonder if some horses will never get the canter on the correct lead. She knows full well what she is doing but I am sure she has a mental block about it.

[Heather]

It can sometimes be solved by a rider with exceptional timing, who can catch the horse just at the split second needed. How many riders have tried to get her to do this?

Whereabouts are you?

Heather

[galadriel]

Does she do this under saddle, or at all times? My horses, ex-racers, had a mental block about canter depart on the right lead (they're usually punished for it on the track). I've been working with them on getting the right lead on the lunge, THEN working on it under saddle.

The older one is very unbalanced to the right on the right lead (it's almost funny, if it weren't so frustrating!) and needs a lot of work learning to balance herself on the right lead before I am willing to ask her to use it *and* carry a person. Like you, I can get her into a right lead over a jump, but she just can't set off into a right lead canter depart because, well, she can't.

I know when we work her on the lunge that I am making her use muscles that she isn't used to using. She gets a bit grumpy at me (glares!) before she'll depart on the right. I can't really blamer her; even using the whole arena, sometimes she still gets a little wobbly on her right lead. It's just not natural for the poor girl; she's gone 13 years without using a right lead on a working turn of any kind, and she's so left-handed that she can do *anything* on a left lead (including counter-canter of about 15m circles).

If you can get your horse to lunge on the right lead, then I would recommend that you lunge her every other day or so until she starts to really seem comfortable on the right lead (no loss of balance, stumbling, funny wiggles). Don't neglect the left, but try to build up the right. I unfortunately got very sick and was unable to keep woirking with them, and the older was taking a little longer; getting back to it now.

What I did with the younger mare, once she did start getting her balance well, was "trick" her into picking up the right lead under saddle. I took her to where I usually lunged her, stuck someone up on her back, and did the exact same thing I'd been doing: asked for trot both ways, asked for canter left, asked for canter right. Did that for two days successfully, then had *me* lunged on her back, this time giving her the right-canter leg signals. Next time, there was no lunge line, but we went through the same routinge: someone in the middle, me on her back asking for trot both ways, then canter left, then canter right. Next time, no person in the center. That one we did daily for about a week, then I started asking her for right lead in other parts of the arena. If she couldn't get it, I took her back to "her corner," asked for right lead, praised her, went back to the previous spot and asked. This was probably the most frustrating part: getting her to understand the difference in right lead and left lead departs on the straight.

After this, I took her to her first horse trial, and she GOT her right lead in the dressage test. I was so proud I could have burst (except that I was controlling the sudden burst of energy from, right after the right lead depart, she decided to jump the puddle in front of her ;) ). After that, as I said, I'd gotten very sick. For about 2 mo I lunged her for exercise but didn't ride...the next time I got on, she gave me the right lead with no hesitation. When I went to lunge Duchess and ask spoecifically for right lead, she also knew what I wanted, so I'm not set back as far as I thought I might be.

Good luck with your mare. I hope I've been helpful!

[Merlyn]

Belle can get the right lead on the lunge - at least she used to be able to when we had somewhere to lunge. We school in the corner of a 12 acre field and for safety reasons I think this is not a suitable place to lunge (even if it ever stops raining and we get to see the ground again!!!!). She can also do the most amazing halt to canter on either lead and flying changes and all manner of other things when playing in the field :D

One thing that really puzzles me is that she is so balanced when we get the right lead over a pole or whatever - and she is also balanced on the wrong lead - even experienced riders have to be told what leg she is on!

A few different riders have tried, including 3 very experienced riders. One has had a limited amount of success - she says she gets it mostly by throwing all her weight into the right - but says she probably couldn't do that if she was lighter (she is probably 3 stone heavier than me) and if she was shorter (she is a lot taller than me and most of me is legs so throwing my upper body anywhere makes no difference to my big lump of a horse!). I am not blowing my own trumpet but I have been riding for a fair while and have been told I have good balance (not sure if I believe it or not) and have had no trouble on other horses (though now I only ride my horse, Belle, and a young pony who is just learning how to canter)

I am based in Suffolk, between Newmarket and Mildenhall, and just about stranded here with no transport (yet)

[IrisSilverMoon]

have you tried haunches in to canter?

go haunches in, and ask, she has to pick up the correct lead or she'll bang her knees into the rail, usually this works if you do it correctly. Shoulder in, then switch to haunches in, right as you switch ask for the canter. make sure you have a good inside bend. so she's not confused.

[Merlyn]

Haunches in sounds like a good idea, though we haven't quite progressed to that yet. Doesn't help that I have only ridden it on a schoolmaster once. Her getting the correct lead or banging her knees into the rail might not work though as we school in a big field so have no rails!

[IrisSilverMoon]

well either way it should work (with or without rails) if you're on a circle going right and then go haunches in there's amost no way she would be able to pick up the wrong lead without being severely off balance. you don't need a super great haunches in, just enough of one that will keep her from picking up the wrong lead...:)

[cvb]

if she's doing all the other lateral work ok, then quarters in should not be a big issue.

When I went to try my mare before I bought her, I had a problem with right canter strike off and we got it through putting the quarters in.

And she was so one sided that we could not have even THOUGHT about any of the work you mentioned !

If you think of it like a leg yeild rather than "true" travers (or is it renvers - I always get them mixed up - quarters in anyway) - its not so tough to do.

My mare vetted ok, with no comment. But a physio subsequently picked up that her right hip was slightly out. It is really subtle and does not affect her much - just in canter strike off and lateral work one way. Perhaps there is something like this that your vet has not picked up ?

[Merlyn]

I haven't managed to do the haunches in exercise yet, she has been a bit flat these last few days (not used to the extra work while I am off work I suspect) so I have been giving her a break from flatwork and jumping her instead. Funny how she finds plenty of energy when I put a fence in front if her!. I will try it next time we do flatwork though - may be a couple of weeks now (roll on spring, daylight and regular riding!!!)

[Shiny McShine]

I would recommend trying haunches in. From lots of experience riding ex-race horses and racers I have to say this works for me 100% of the time. Many of them definitely had not started lateral work in full by the stage I was requiring them to canter, especially those starting racing.

When you are on the racetrack you do not have alot of opportunity to do alot of manouvering to get on the correct lead, or change leads so we always taught them to canter with the hip in. First via turn on the forehand and then leg-yielding quarters in.

This is a very pronounced way of asking for the lead which makes it clearer for the horse and also somewhat forces them to take the correct lead. Later, once they get the idea you don't need to turn the hip in because they associate the inside bend to the canter strike off.

[Heather]

HI Shiny,

Must say I had never thought of using travers to correct this. I guess in the Uk most people would not dream of starting lateral exercises until the horse is established in wlak trot and canter, and able to strike off correctly!

In my case, this is not true! We use a lot of lateral work in walk in Portugal to straighten the horse, so this makes a lot more sense to me than to many riders over here. We woudl begin lateral work within weeks of backing the young horse, and even in Germany I have seen them beginning shoulder-fore and leg yield within maybe three weeks to a month after backing.

However, bringing the quarters in is a common fault when striking off in canter, and many instructors woudll throw their hands up in horror here at the mere suggestion of actually inducing it!


Heather

[Merlyn]

Although bringing quarters in in the canter is a pretty common fault I don't see the harm in asking for quarters in to achieve canter - can always straighten out as soon as the correct strike off is achieved.

I started lateral work with Belle before establishing canter as a long time ago it became obvious that the canter was a problem. It was as a means to straighten her out (which it has worked for to a certain extent), gain control of her shoulders (there are some big disadvantages to schooling in an open field when a horse decides to bulge out through the shoulder and head down a 12 acre field!), and keep her attention - she will only try if she is being asked to do something different all the time. I think she actually enjoys doing her lateral work (or twiddly bits as I call them!) - makes her think she is doing something clever!!

[Heather]

HI Merlyn,

I don't see the harm either, but I often get kicked in the teeth by other trainers for suggesting things which they feel are too advanced for the horse or rider, or unconventional. My feelings are that if it works, who cares!! As far as I am concerned all of these things combine together to make a 'toolkit' from which we can choose an 'implement' to do a certain task.

Heather

[ros]

Thought I posted this earlier but it seems to have disappeared:

Do you think it's significant that the horse appears to be able to strike off on both leads when loose or on the lunge, but not under saddle? Could it possibly be a saddle problem? I wondered about this, but it seems odd that the horse maintains balance well having once achieved right lead and only seems to find the strike-off difficult. My own experiences - not vast, admittedly - have been that horses who find it difficult to strike off on a particular lead, for whatever reason, also find it difficult to maintain that lead.

[Merlyn]

I did think about the saddle Ros, but it has been fitted by a very good saddle fitter, and reflocked recently to fit when the flocking started to settle. I am satisfied that it does fit and this particular saddle fitter is the only one within 50 miles who I would trust!

She used to find it quite difficult to maintain the right canter once she had got it over a jump - she was so unbalanced that she felt disunited. But plenty of practice has made her almost as balanced as on the left. It is not just the strike off which is an issue and I am seriously wondering if it is a mental block on Belle's part!

[Shiny McShine]

At the school where I used to teach we always taught our riders to be able to do leg yeilding and travers exercises before we introduced them to canter. Alot of people think it is strange but all our students could always find the correct lead but were also much more aware of their leads because they were used to the feeling of having the inside foot come underneath.

Every time I go to a local pony club rally and see 90% of the ponies running around on the wrong lead I am convinced of the usefulness of this method. 5% of the ponies doing it correctly are just well educated, the other 5% are those with riders I have taught.

It is interesting to have people agree with my on this because most people who have been taught to get the lead in a more traditional way ho hum the idea.

When I was learning to ride on the correct canter lead my instructor used to always have me ride travers into the strike-off. With most horses I now use the traditional aids but if I have any problems I go back to the leg-yeilding and travers excercises and I avoid a big stuggle that way.

Often with an uneducated but responsive youngster I will ride 'in position' before the canter strike and that is often enough. On the other hand some ex-racers need a full week practicing leg yeilding and turn on the forehand before they will be even ready to think about taking the correct lead. The point is the time teaching them the leg yeilding means less of a battle to get the correct lead when we do try.

[cvb]

Heather - just had a sneaky thought. Of course if we teach our horses correctly then they will know the difference between being asked for quarters-in, and not. So actually a horse that is taught the difference ought to be LESs likely to canter quarters in as they will be laterally supple but also educated to the aids :D

So perhaps our counter to these throw-their-arms-in-the-air "traditionalists" is that it is not a problem with properly taught horses ?!

[Merlyn]

Looks like I will be unable to try the travers to canter this weekend - the corner of the field that we school in was waterlogged yesterday (well submerged actually) and now it has frozen :(
Maybe next weekend I will be able to try it :)

[Sue Watson]

Take heart - my Dales mare took 10 months of various methods until she would canter on her left lead. Travers to canter worked in the end and she is now flourishing working Advanced.

NB I was very badly taught then - it should take you much less time.