Cytek

[issy]

Wally - surely you can get a 'used' cytek shoe from someone?

[Wally]

:D I am in negotiations at the moment to try and have a look at one or two. New ones I hope!

There is nobody here that Cytek will supply as none of the farriers bother to register, well one chap does but I wouldn't let him near my horses..........He wouldn't go on their course, no way, there's no young pup going to teach him anything!!

They will not supply you unless you have been on their course, we cannot go on their course because unless we are registered it is illegal in England to shoe a horse! As you can imagine it is a lot of hassle to go to to find out about a certain type of shoe....which may just turn out to be a machine made weighted shoe!

The lass who teaches me is registerable as she has done the full course and won many shoeing competitions in the mainland UK. But lapsed registration means you cannot shoe in England and thus the vicious circle goes!

I would like to learn about them and find out what is so different and new. It may well help some of our unusually gaited horses, but I will never know.

[Marie-ann]

Hi Wally

My friend has Cyteks on her horse. She used Warwick who is they guy that trains the farriers in the UK, but he was very espensive becasue he is based down south and we are north. He will travel though, so there is a chance he could come over to you.

Also, if you do a search on cyteks on the web there is loads of information and research about them. They are very big in Australia at the moemnt. The good news is that more and more farriers are training (my friends husband just qualified) so there might be a cytek farrier nearer to you soon.

From what I understand, Cyteks allow the horse's feet to move and wear natuarally as the breaking point of the foot does not change when the hoot grows (as is the case with conventional shoeing). Apparently you can leave shoeing for longer durations too - think the longest my friend has gone is 13 weeks.

Hope this helps you

Mx

[ros]

Hmm. I think I'd want my farrier to see my horse rather more often than every 12/13 weeks! You never know what could be going on.

It would appear that British farriers tend to be a little anti-Cytek, not because of the concept, which is basically nothing new or mystical, but because the special shoes you're supposed to use are not adjustable. You can't adjust the shoe to fit the foot, so if your horse doesn't have perfect Cytek-shaped feet, tough! In countries where cold-shoeing is the norm this seems to be more acceptable, but in Britain hot-shoeing is more popular, and making the foot fit the shoe - or in some cases not even bothering to do that - goes against the grain.

A normal adjustable shoe can be altered to do a similar job without compromising the fit.

[Wally]

I am really going to have too look into these shoes.

I was taught to go with what the Almighty gave each horse on the end of each leg. If he has deformed feet you have to go carefully and make the shoe fit the foot, but encourage it to grow into a better shape to aid weight bearing and gait. To radically alter a hoof will lame him farther up is leg due to joint strain.

Ugla has feet shaped like a mule or donkey, her shoes look more like staples than a traditional horseshoe shape. Round horse shoes will not fit her front feet. Make the shoe fit the foot, not the foot fit the shoe...within reason.

I'm not sure that 13 weeks of hoof growth ,regardless of where the breakover point is, is a sensible option. His foot will have lengthened, so the flight of his foot will have altered.... is what common sense would suggest. If you alter the angle in one place it has to change in another, at a joint?......just thinking aloud.....

[Piaffe]

Had to say something here!!

I used cytek shoes for a year and yes, they were very good - my horse stumbled less (feet weren't as long as with normal shoeing), his way of going was better and he didn't need shoeing quite so often.

However, I didn't like the farrier - he wouldn't shoe if it was raining, often wouldn't turn up etc and used to shout at me or my horse if my horse didn't stand still.

I gave up on these shoes mainly due to the farrier concerned (also trained by Warwick - however Warwick rarely came to our yard), but also the material they are made from doesn't last as long as normal shoes and the small studs used to break off within a week.

I now have my horse shod with natural balance, which is the same principal and is equally as effective. The shoes last longer too and he can still go up to 8 weeks sometimes without being shod - depending on the time of year and type of work we've been doing.

[ros]

Yes, that was something else my farrier mentioned - the proper Cytek shoes are very brittle and inclined to break if you wallop them!

[Susan C]

Sorry dont want to cause any anger..

But firstly the shoeing is not as simple as it can sound. It needs a good farrier to apply using his skill.

The principle is how it works is very simple, no clips, correct trim, shoe applied bingo. Straight away, better balance, better support, sole is allowed to stay in shoe to aid support and increase the blood circulation as it moves from hoof wall to frog. Leave less room for the bad urine and poo to build up inside the foot. No clips means the foot is not restricted as it grows as in a conventional shoe, remembering that happens with a short time. The principle is the foot will wear itself as it growns as in feral horses.
NO you do not jump from normal 5weeks plus to 13 weeks!!!

It takes time to build to that, IF it suits you and your horse. By that time you know your horse, you know his feet, you have confidence to go that long, BUT noone forces you to go that long.
It is about only applying a shoe as it is needed. As the shoes wear out or the foot needs attention.
My youngster has now been shod for a year, he has 7 weeks between shoeing, by this summer it may be as less as 9-10 weeks only if he can go that long. WE let the horse tell us. His feet still would not allow longer, he still has the history of lack of trimming and not good trimming at that before I bought him. Unshod. he has only had Cytek shoes and trim


Yes it is cold shoeing, no you do not alter the shoe to the horse. That is one of the main faults of conventional shoeing. And NB shoeing.Applying heat to a foot is not good, removing and re applying shoes all is another concussion to the hoof. The less concussion you give them the better.
The reason Cytek do not recommend trotting on roads.
Another soap box of mine anyway.

If the foot is going wrong and you continue to shoe to that it only increases the problem.
Long toes, low heels are typical example go longer and lower. Boxy same problem get boxier. Big flat saucers become dinner plates.

All will be said Oh its what to expect with a TB or a Cob or a Shire Cross.
My own vet told me that I had to expect very Flat, big saucer feet on my ID. That was the way they all went.
I was told my previous Tb had typical C*** feet that everyone knows they have, with long toes, and low heels. plus such poor hoof. This by my conventioal farrier and the vet I had then.
.
I cant go through every incident so please see this as an overview.
Cytek take away the changes the farrier can make to How HE sees the answer, rather then how experience has shown the shoe WORKS! and the correct TRIM works. The farriers are trained to apply the set shaped shoe at the correct percentage to pedal bone for optimum and correct support. There are different size shoes.
The Shoes are NOT round either, in shape.

The whole principle is to ALLOW the horse to have what he SHOULD have not what a farrier thinks is right in his own mind. It rules out the interpitation of what is said to what is understood.

It all takes time, many are improved overnight, some take longer.

BUT again it still comes down to the Cytek Farrier doing his job correct.
The shoes are NOT brittle, they are not thin, the studs I have had fitted on my horse past and present have never worn out, or broken, they are tungston. They are taken out and replaced in the next new shoe, a few times. The studs are only tiny by the way!!!! very tiny, they are there to act with the breakover point and allow grip when a horse is in full flight gallop. Another differencve to NB shoes.

WHAT has made shoes" Brittle" was farriers heating them and trying to change them, incorrect procedure.
I wonder if the post that mention this as a fault plus had a farrier who was letting her down, was not fitting correct shoes, or correct studs! or not following the correct application.

Warwick is not the only Farrier from that part of the world. I am sure this could have been sorted out better for you. It must have made you feel very let down.

Did you speak with him, how long ago was all this?? as normally they will move heaven and earth to see you are NOT let down.
if a farrier starts letting people down, not doing the job correct they want to know, and they wont allow him supply if it continues.

A unreliable farrier is no use to anyone, like any workman.

It is disappointing to have something as this make it sound no Good, It is good, it does what it says, but only with the right application. PLus a good farrier doing his job.

BUT then again Cytek need to know these things and have the opportunity to sort it out. Before more owners and horses dont get the service/system they all deserve.

Wally is there no way you visit the England??? You need to speak to the Ones WHO do know and train the farriers and see the problems for real. Who set this up, and have the years behind them from thousands of horses. Not odd ones.

Example I spoke to my farrier the other day, he is now starting back after car accident. he shod a driving pony that had a serious accident to his hind foot, sliced off whole heel and back part of the foot on corrigated sheeting, NASTY.
He really did not know what best to do. So he just applied the Cytek shoe the same as rest, obvious it had less area to apply to.
So we are talking one very deformed foot at this stage.
Within a year the foot and heel grew back. Not good enough to support as before, but in the following 12 months it did become the same. So 2 years later!
The pony is moving as it should with 4 feet, all correct with the support they all need.

It takes all the right ingrediants to make it all work as it should. Like any thing else in life.

If anyone of you wants to ask Cytek, go to the site.
www.cytekhorse.com.
log in to the public forum. ask the experts! and get the correct answers.
Even Wally although you cant enter the farrier place as unregistered, they can answer on the public forum.

More questions asked you gain more information.

I am arranging a Cytek Seminar in near future.

It needs synics to go, and ask questions.

I will let you know the date when booked. If anyone wants to se I have pictures of my horses feet, sad I know.

You can see for yourselves they are not that strange. What they do look like.
;)

[ros]

Brittle shoes - no, the post that mention this did not have a farrier that was letting her down :)

And I'm sorry, but you can't make all horses have the same shape of foot, no matter what Cytek say.

[Susan C]

Originally posted by ros
Brittle shoes - no,

sorry saw again, said they did not last as long.

Again this worries me, as they last longer then any other shoe we have had fitted by many different farriers over the years.
I do wonder if these were correct.


the post that mention this did not have a farrier that was letting her down :)

but still applies a farrier who lets anyone down often is still a concern.


And I'm sorry, but you can't make all horses have the same shape of foot, no matter what Cytek say.

No you dont, I agree.

But talk to the experts let them explain fully why they do NOT have a shoe that can be heated.

They visit so many horses all have differeing reasons and feet.
The results are there.

Yes I was the sceptic as you.. I asked so many questions, I poked around, I visited owners, spoke to many owners, spoke to many different cytek farriers.
I questioned and questioned, as so much of this went against all I had leaned, been taught, had done.

BUT I have now seen for myself many many results that were or could Not be helped by anything else, all had been tried.

I have also seen the results from horses we did not know had problems before, like treeless saddles and horses moving like they have not done before. The results have spoken for themselves.

Ros ask Cytek these questions, I am not Cytek, I am just one very very grateful owner, and I cant help but want others to know about it, and have the opportunity to know.
For no other reason then the horse. Yes I get carried away. That I do apolgise for. but content no.

[AlisonC]

ros - you mentioned they are "big in Australia" at present. Just to clarify - Cytek have had a very strong marketing campaign (formal) and also have marketed by stealth to try to gain both mindshare and market share.

What they have achieved is a lot of discussion. There has been positive feedback but mainly a lot of negative feedback from those who have trialed the products.

This may not just be the product offering but the fact that in Australia anyone can call himself/herself a farrier and charge for the service. As a result we have a lot of varied quality in farrier work.

I considered the Cytek product but the information from the company was extremely evangelistic and I couldn't identify and really good (local) case studies on the success of the product.

I will sit and watch the market with interest and also watch what you Brits decide about Cytek.

[Wally]

There is no reason why a good farrier cannot influence a horse's foot to a better shape just using ordinary forged shoes.

If you slap the wrong shaped shoes on a horse you will lame him/her.

How is one supposed to get a round shoe on a U shaped foot? You have to start by matching the shoe to the foot but giving the foot room and encouraging it to expand.

Who is to say the pony with the badly injured heels would not have recovered just as well with conventional shoeing. There is nothing magic about horse's feet, they will recover amazingly from injury with very little intervention from man.

I agree that too many horses go around with splatty feet, or toes too long, but this is due to sloppy farriery, not shoe types.

[Shiny McShine]

I have to say I have been taking great interest in the feet of horses at my paddocks since discovering this topic I have noticed some very well shod horses and some very poor ones.
I have also noticed some horses, never shod, with both good and poor feet in different cases.

I have to agree with Wally that it is all about the quality of the farriery and the approach taken. I have not witnessed Cytek first hand and am currently looking into it further but I have seen well shod horses using conventional methods with good feet well into their 20's.

I must admit that I am sceptical of Cytek simply because I always am with anything that is being sold to me. I would like to find some objective articles before I make any further judgment, simply seeing what Cytek is selling is not enough. If it proves itself good then all the better but from what I have seen I believe it comes down to the quality of the farriery.

[galadriel]

I would like to mention also that my horses were being poorly shod--long toes no heel, by one conventional farrier. I have a new one, who is also a conventional farrier, who is making them right again. It does not take special shoes, just skill.

[Wally]

I have dug out all my farriery books, histories and anecdotes are included.

There is one book which as a huge long chapter on ennovative designs of horse shoe to aid certain condidiotns and promote certain things. There are ones with hinges, cushions, wide webs, narrow webs, calkins, studs, weights here and there, clips, clamps you name it it has been done in the past. But how many are seen in common use?

Good farriery takes the whole horse's conformation into consideration, it's no good altering a foot to be "perfect" if the leg it hangs on isn't perfect.

If anyone is out there who uses Cytek, can they send me a picture of the feet, a shoe, some sales brochures...anything, thier website is so bitty and covered in stuff it is hard work to navigate round. I don't have much of an attention span on the net!:D

[ros]

Er - nope! Wasn't me who said they were big in Australia.

[Marie-ann]

Hi, sorry think I might have caused a bit of confusion - didn't mean to.

I do not have cyteks on my horse becasue I do not feel his feet are strong enough to take the wear and tear.

Also, I was not suggesting that your horse should go from normal 6 week shoeing to 13 weeks in one jump.

Sorry, I was under the impression that Cyteks where big in Australia, most of the information that my friend has shown me was from reasearch in Australia and other countries. From searches I did on the net, this did seemed to be apparent

As I don't use cyteks and I'm not claiming to be an expert on them (if I'm honest I'm not hugely keen on them). I was just trying to be helpful :)

Sorry for any misunderstandings!

Mx

[sassyb]

Originally posted by ros
Brittle shoes - no, the post that mention this did not have a farrier that was letting her down :)

And I'm sorry, but you can't make all horses have the same shape of foot, no matter what Cytek say.

If you knew a little about what you are talking about then you woulnt have said that!!!!!!!!!!
you DONT make all horses have the same shaped foot, the reason you dont alter the shoes is because it is fitted and aligned to support the pedal bone and not the wall of the hoof. think about it like if you were waring shoes on your fingers and walked on them, then i guess you would want them over your bone not on your finger nails!!!YES? i suggest you look at the web site or do a bit of reaserch b 4 you say anymore!

[Wally]

I shall answer this later in the year after I have been on the course. Have looked in detail at the website.

I have a lot of unanswered questions to put to Mr Bloomfield.