Kinder to change bits - ? for the experts

[CityGirl]

I am currently riding a 15 year old TBX. He's a school horse & I am hoping to take him on lease come spring.
Currenly, the school is putting him in a kimberwick bit with a standing martingale. I was warned that he can be strong but I have never had that problem nor has he ever thrown his head. My guess is that he was put in that bit when the stable bought him some years ago & no one has bothered to re-evaluate. My question is this - he doesn't show any evidence of discomfort but I feel that he doesn't need that strong a bit. Is it better to go under the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" rule or should I try him in a lighter bit? I just want to do what's best for him & if it's only going to be me riding him, I'd like to make him as happy as possible.
If its relavent - we do a mixture of work - mostly jumping right now (& of course flatwork)

[IrisSilverMoon]

I say go for it. IF you think he's not that strong and would be happier in a kinder bit why not? if it turns out he is really strong there's no rule that says you can't change it back. But if he goes better in the nicer bit, then you'll have something to show your stable about how he really does go. :)

you never know, sometimes horses will go better in the nicer bits, even if they were fine before in the stronger bits. the only way you will find out though, is if you try...;)

[Susan C]

Difficult as at present he is not yours to do as you wish.

But when he is, that becomes a different matter.

I personally have always been for the kinder bit as possible but with the horse accepting it.

I know Heather has had good results with horses in Pelhams, then changed down as she has seen fit.

So many things detirmine what you do, and most is how you handle the horse and your hands.

It is not easy on here to see for ourselves the horse and you as the rider.

I had a TB on loan age 14 when we first took him, he was ridden in a mullen mouth jointed snaffle. I asked was he always in this, and he had been for 7 years since coming out of racing.
It was obvious he hated it, he shook his head around and snatched at the reins very badly.

We changed to a straight bar Happy mouth loose ring, which he took to better. Then I bought a KK training bit, as he had such a soft mouth and he had no idea of accepting the bit, still in racing mode in his bitting habits.
I never thought to try a pelham, strangely. Cant say why, but the KK did have good results.
It was later we realised he was also suffering bad saddle fit.

I personally do not like standing martingales, and in schooling use no martingale at all. Now I am lucky with a youngster, who has not worn a martingale.

Have you asked them why he has the bitting arrangements ??
It would be worth seeing why

If he was mine I would go down the bits, take away all the extras and see what the Horse is like under all that. Jack took to re-education even at 15 going on 16. The learning does carry on.

Will you still keep up the instruction?

[CityGirl]

I did ask them why he was in the kimberwick/martingale combo & the answer was that when they got him a few years back he was very strong & not well behaved. I haven't had any problems with him though so my guess is either a)he's learned better manners or b)he's being ridden by more appropriate riders.

As I said, I think the stable is working under the "just leave him be" theory but I'm just not convinced he needs to be in that bit.

Susan, yes I will continue to take lessons when I lease so I will have the benefit of my instructor's opinion of the new bit as well (as long as the stable lets me switch) Plus, I need as many lessons as possible:)

Thanks for your input - I'm a firm believe in the "less is more" theory when it comes to equipment.

[Wally]

My Heavens if we all went round with that attitude ( he used to misbehave when we got him, so keep the same bit no matter what) If he doesn't need to be ridden in all that gear downsize and see how you go!

Some of our horses used to be bad mannered when we got them, but as they have learned and we have evolved with them.

But remember a snaffle which is the wrong shape for the horse's mouth can be more severe than a stronger bith which is the right size and shape.

Some of the horses' we have bought with tack, have come with the most weird combinations. We have started with something simple and only go on to fancier gear if they need it. We don't have any martingales in our tack room.

[Kerry's Partner]

I must also add that a snaffle, even if the right shape, that is the wrong size is even worse. Has anyone else EVER fallen into this awful trap or is it just me who keeps going on about the size of the bit?

[Heather]

HI all,

Remember, any bit is onlyu as mild or strong as the hands that use it. A really sharp curb bit used with great delicacy, can bring about control of the utmost refinement with the horse requring the merest flutter of the fingertips to respond. However in the wrong hands this bit would be an instrument of torture.

The snaffle roughly used however, can also be an extremely crude bit, and require a lot more 'use' than a sharper bit that the horse has respect for. Some horses just hate snaffle and will never accept them lightly yet will go superbly in a kimblewick or Pelham.

So my answer is to ask the owners if you can try him in a snaffle, and see how it goes- and get rid of that martingale as soon as you can- like Wally we don't even posess one, nor a Flash noseband or draw reins!!

Heather

[Sue Watson]

If he goes will in the kimblewick but you want to try something with less leverage why not try a mullen mouthed egg butt snaffle to start.

[Susan C]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Heather

Remember, any bit is onlyu as mild or strong as the hands that use it.

I agree, but somehow many do not see this.

So many people have certain bits in their heads, snaffles are kind, pelhams are for strong horses/ponies



, nor a Flash noseband

Also another bane of my life, why so many bridles have them, so then the owners always use them


or draw reins!!

EEEEEKKKK

:eek:

I hate these. I have never used them, why? I dont understand them.
All the years I have been round the ponies/horses still dont understand them.

So many show jumpers use them, we have a couple of girls in the yard that did training for there equine exams in a local dealer/ s/j yard, who is always hacking his horses out in draw reins.
So what do these do, and hiccups with young horse, in the draw reins it goes.

Sorry another soap box.

[Mossy]

A kimblewick and a standing martingale does sound a liitle excessive to me. However if he has been strapped down in that combination for years I would reduce it gradually. My first step I think would be to lose the martingale, in an enclosed space, maybe going via a running martingale, maybe not depending on the situation and the horse. Assuming all went well I would settle him without a martingale for a while and then adjust the bit. Blame my scientific background maybe but I am a great believer in only changing one thing at once.
Good luck
PS I do not have problem with martingales per se. Like many things they have their place in particular circumstances. Conn wears a running one when out in strange company as she tends to chuck her head around but not usually for normal hacking and never for schooling

[Monty]

I didn't realize that you didn't like flash nose bands,Heather??
Can you explain why please, and what you use instead, if anything at all?? Thanks

[janet hakeney]

You would find it helpfull to understand the principles of bitting. I am constantly amazed that it is little taught or understoood these days. There are several good books on the subject available. There is a very good chapter in Elwyn Hartley-Edwards book Saddlery on it. If you understand about the families of bits, and the pressure points they influence, and the conformation of your horses mouth, you can make a better informed decision about which to use.

On the subject of flash/drop/grakle nosebands ....their purpose is to stop the horse from opening his mouth. This is addressing the symptom rather than the cause. You do not remove the resistance...just cover it up. It does not stop the tension that makes the horse want to open his mouth. Personally I would rather have it be obvious my horse has a problem in his mouth ...and set about curing it.

[Heather]

I second that Janet.

I hate flash and grakles especially as they clamp the jaw shut in two places, which is worse than a drop. I very occasionally use a drop if a horse for instance, puts his tongue over the bit or opens the mouth wide to evade, but even then, never to clamp the mouth tightly shut- always leaving room for the horse to relax the lower jaw by unclenching the teeth.

This would only ever be a temporary measure though- none of my own horses wear anything more than a cavesson, and then only for decoration!

Heather

[Monty]

Thank you both. I actually went to fish in your book,Heather, afterwards, and found something on it, and noticed that most of the horses there were just in cavessons. Hadn't noticed that before.

[Kerry's Partner]

What an "open" response, forgive the pun. I agree wholeheartedly too. I've often seen dents in the place where the flash has been. All I can say is if that's what happened to me because of even the socks I wore I'd change them instantly (or stretch the elastic beyond it's recoil point. In fact I might even cut it anyway!!!!!!!!!!!

[CityGirl]

I'm doing some schooling in the indoor arena tomorrow & have gotten an okay to go without the martinggale. Assuming all goes well, I'll try him in the outdoor on Saturday without it. Baby steps......
Thank you all for the advice - I have been reading up on all the bits. If nothing else, I can now speak more intelligently about the subject.

[Evol_or_revert]

Hey, Just a random post :D To say City Girl I like your "less is more" thingy :D, When i got my horse they told me to ALWAYS ride in a martigale and a cross nose band (The crosscountry type ones) I now ride with no martigale and no nose band and my horse is going better then ever. The old owners even came up to me at a show and told me that i really should put on a martigale and to do it before i went in to the ring to jump hmmm.

So really the point of this post could be to say, Go with how you feel it's good to try different things and sometimes they work.

(I took of the noseband when i went to do showhunter i haven't ridden my horse without it for the 9months i had him, went in to the 95cm class and got second. even through he had spent all morning rearing on me and i had missed half the show.... I never but that nose band back on.)


Kimberley