How do I go with the flow??!

[Kezzabelle]

Hi,

As you may know ive just recently come back to riding after a 3 year gap. Ive had a few lessons which are going ok apart from the fact im as stiff as an ironing board. This is a (BIG) problem when it comes to trotting, especially sitting trot and also canter. Also the fact im riding a very bouncy horse doesnt help. I find that during sitting trot I get pains up my back, and i know with me with me bouncing around the saddle it is sending 'waves' down the reins and poor Riz can feel it on his mouth. I also have problems keeping my feet in the correct postion in the stirrups (they always slide forward). My instructor says about working without stirrups would help but as im so unstable she doesnt want to risk it as i'd fall off. The way my instructor describes my sitting trot is - as if you hit a golf club off a metal pole. I can understand exactly what she means but how do i loosen up and go with the flow??? I know if i relaxed more, had a deeper seat and kept my heels down and toes up i'd be fine. But how do I do this??? It just seems like the most impossible thing in the world. It's also getting me down and frustrating me as I never used to have these problems when i used to ride. :( Does anyone have any tips or exercises I could do?

Kez x

[FreedomStar]

first, you should take deep breaths. VERY deep. As you breathe in, you tense up, and breathing out lets your muscles loosen up. Also, maybe you're trying to grip with your knees. don't.
Try keeping your stirrups on the ball of your foot, and starting at the walk, just concentrate on keeping your foot on the vertical. Since your leg slides forward, it's probably because you're leaning backwards. Lean forward a little more. It'll feel uncomfortable at first, but you'll get used to it.

[kedwards]

If you haven't read it already, you might want to check out Heather's advice on sitting trot in the "kinder way to ride series," which you can access from the main page. It has a lot of great information regarding learning how to go with the movement better.

Good luck!

[virtuallyhorses]

We're always advising to have horses checked out for pain - sounds like you need to go to the 'vets' or physio to have your back pain checked out :)

If there's really pain (rather than simple stiffness) when you are trying to sit the trot or canter you may have a real back problem that needs to be addressed first. If you don't have a physical problem then any stretching, back and abdominal strengthening exercises will help.

[galadriel]

I have noticed in some people a tendency to slump the shoulders forward, which brings the weight forward, and so they bring feet forward to compensate. This may be what you're experiencing--you can not relax your back and absorb movement if it is hunched forward. It's too stiff. You must sit straight in the saddle. The oft-used term "shoulders back" is a little exaggerated; sit straight and tall, straighten your spine, put your arms straight out to the sides. Turn your arms so that your thumb is pointing to the sky. Your back and shoulders are about where they need to be; try to bring your arms down without letting your shoulders slump forward. This often feels like an exaggerated pushing of the shoulders back, until it becomes habit; try not to push your shoulders so far back that your back tenses up again--that would deny the whole point! :) The term really should be 'shoulders medium"--that is, not forward, not back, but straight.

If you can keep your back straight, it should be easier to sit straight in the saddle with your feet under you, and also to absorb movement rather than jolting it back.

Try walking, and feeling the movement. Let the movement move *you*. Relax, relax your back--it's just a walk, no need to tense up or be nervous. Anyone can walk. :) The more you can relax your back at the walk and feel the movement, the easier it will be at more bouncy gaits.

The walk has 4 beats. Hind-front on one side, then hind-front on the other side. As the legs move on either side, it will feel as if the back is dipping slightly to that side. "Shoulders back," let your hips follow the movement, side to side. Like a belly dance, let your hips move, but let your chest remain still. That's the hard part, of course ;) You can let the walk push you around with a stiff back, but it's much tougher relaxing your back such that part of it gently moves (the hips), while part of the back gives to the movement such that it does NOT wobble around, and stays steady.

You need to use this flexing of your back while posting, also. You let your hips move forward and back, while keeping your chest fairly steady.

Any joint, if not used for a while, can stiffen up. If this is all that's affecting you, it will take some time to loosen up. In order to avoid hurting yourself, I'd advise against trying to sit trot or canter until you feel very comfortable sitting the walk, and relaxing into the movement.

[Cochise]

I was going to suggest deep breaths and to laugh as much as possible, its wonderfully relaxing!! I always think of simple things :O

[Kezzabelle]

Thank you so much for all your advice! That was an interesting point you made Galadriel, about being able to master the walk. Im going to do that in my next lesson, it does make sense as you cant relax and concentrate on your postion when your bouncing around the way i do!

Kez x

[VickiN]

Kez, I can completly sympathize with you on this I have just gone through the exact same thing, although it has been about 16 years since I last rode with confidence, so after 16 yrs I'm starting all over again, searched for the right horse and found my Sinbad 7yr TBx Cob. I got the walk & rising trot back without any problem but just could not get the canter because I hadn't developed my seat properly it was also difficult as Sinbad has a lolopy canter as he is rather green in the school. My instructor took away my stirrups and I started to do the rising trot on him with no stirrups! anyway heres what worked for me:

I borrowed another horse for my lesson while someone else exersized Sinbad for one which was happy just to plod round all day on a lunge. (cobs are perfect you seem to have more to sit on if you know what I mean)
Take away the stirupps hold on to the saddle, relax and don't think about what you are doing, try not to concentrate and I can not agree more with Cochise "laugh" relaxing your hips seems to be the key.

You must take the plunge and take away the stirrups, after 15 mins you will feel the difference "your legs will be longer"
For me the sitting trot is easier without stirrups and that is just after one 30 min lesson.

Let me know how you get on - I have another lesson on Sunday probably go for the canter again!

[Kezzabelle]

Hi VikiN.
Thanks for your reply. I wish you could see me ride and see how much i bounce! I bounce so much that my instructor is reluctant to take my stirrups away just now because she knows I will fall off! You mentioned that you took your stirrups away and did rising trot, how did you manage this? I thought you needed your stirrups to stand on so you can rise (?!?) Have I got it all wrong! Could some one explain to me how you rise in trot without your stirrups. Also, another wee question, Ive been told not to grip with my knees, so do i grip with my lower legs or do I just let my legs hang long??

Cheers, Kez x

[mikka]

Kez, you've had lots of good advice here - especially the note about making sure your back is okay. If you're on a really bouncy horse, it'll be very hard to learn to sit trot. I'm sure I'm not alone in the experience of having gone from a wonderful sitting trot on one horse to a jerky, bouncy, unbalanced one on another. If you've been assigned this horse for a period of time, you might be able to make the best of it by thinking of him/her as a great learning experience. You can then put all the relaxation techniques to use when you change mounts. Horses are not equal.

[Debby Riley]

I too have been through the bouncy stage and yes i still ride the same horse who has a bouncy trot too,but i have truly learnt that you have to relax, you are probably tense because your instructors say you may fall without stirrups, and as much advice we can all give you your instructor see's you ride and you must listen to her/him, but i found i was tense even though i thought i was relaxed, i was gripping with my knee's and that made the whole thing worse i bounced higher than tigger !!

It does come with pratise and time, don't give up you will get there !!

[Debby Riley]

ps forgot... you can go rising without stirrups i have seen it done, something to do with the thigh muscles that i am sure you will developing as your riding progresses ask your instructor to explain this as i would be interested to know too !!

[MyStIc139]

i neva new u could do rising without stirrups if i tried prob end up on the floor but i suppose that cuz im a sorta novice but maby when im more experienced.....
Does ne one no how u do rising trot without stirrups can u explain or find a site on it??

[BlueSky]

I have done rising trot without stirrups, albeit not as easily as with stirrups! I find that I use the thigh muscles to raise me out of the saddle slightly, but mostly I let the bounce of the trot do it for me.

[VickiN]

Hi Kez,

The only reason I did rising trot without stirrups is because I was so stiff! and so reluctant to sit in the sadddle I couldn't help it, I am told to do the rising trot without stirrups if very difficult so I guess the way I did it is just to grip more with your inner thigh.

I just tried another exercise for balance, which is to stand up in your stirrups while walking, it took some doing to get up and stay up by you should find it a useful exercise and also one you can do with stirrups.

I had a little accident on Saturday - Sinbad broke my finger, I was lunging him on the left rein when he suddenly decided to change rein and caught my finger in the lunge rein, still accidents happen I carried on and still rode him on sunday .... nobody said this wasn't a dangerous pass time!

[Mehitabel]

have a look at the sitting trot thread in the EE forum - i've explained in that how i teach sitting trot, and it's essentially the same movement for cantering and for rising trot without stirrups, just doing it more when you're rising without stirrups. rather than thinking about standing in your stirrups to rise, think about swinging your hips forwards towards your hands. it's more a forwards movement using stomach, hip and thigh muscles than an upwards one - ideally, when you rise, your head should stay at the same level.

[intouch]

Another tip that seems to work for some people is to imagine that you are 'swinging your tail' in time with the horse's movement, helps you to follow the movement instead of resisting it.

[Kezzabelle]

Hi guys,

well i had my lesson today, after days of studying all your advice and heathers advice! I told my instructor how i wanted to concentrate on my position as i'd never get the hang of anything if i dont get a good seat, so thats what we did! My instructor had me doing a few rising and sitting trot circuits Tried to remember all the advice given, still abouncy as ever, then a canter, wich was better but not as good as i'd like. So then my instructor turned the 2nd half of my lesson into a lunge lesson. That was my first time on the lunge, seem to help me a great deal. just trying to get my legs back so thats theres a straight line down my head, hips and ankles, how hard is that! It feels so unnatural!! Although its a bit of a catch 22 as soon as i got my legs back the top half of my body tipped forward :rolleyes: ah well, if at first you dont suceed, try, try again! I just need to keep telling myself that.....;)

Kez x

[intouch]

That sounds to me as if the saddle is not ideal, a well balanced saddle should help to put you in an aligned position. Don't think about 'sitting' in the saddle, think about standing in a supported position, just enough support under your seat so you can lift your feet off the floor (stirrups) if you want to. If there was no horse under you, you should be left standing on the ground, not tipping forward or back. And don't worry too much, your instructor sounds as if she is prepared to take time with you, don't be too hard on yourself! It does take a wee bit of time and practice to get it right - like about two lifetimes!

[Kezzabelle]

Yes, I felt the stirrups were far too forward, I really could use one of Heathers saddles were the stirrups are futher back to help the rider to achive this straight line from the head to the heel, but unfortunatly im using a school horse as i dont have my own horse :( so i'll have to make do with learning on his saddle. The most frustrating thing is that i never used to have these problems when I used to ride but my instructor says that when your younger you are fearless! When you get a little older your brain tells you that this isnt right (because we were never desgined to ride horses in the first place!) I mean im not that old! (im only 19!) Although I understand what she means as the reason i cant hold my position is because my body is trying to protect its self. Im just going to have to "train" my body to hold this position - somehow!! Another thing my instructor says is that I ride better on the right rein, wonder why that is??

Kez x

[Princess Filly]

You should make sure that you are squeezing with your thighs and sitting on your seat bones at the canter. Move with the horse, rolling your hips forward every stride and giving with the reins. Maybe you should do some work on the lunge line to strengthen your legs. You could also do exercises ar home to strengthen your muscles. I've had trouble keeping my leg also. You just have to keep them in line with the rest of your body and squeeze to keep them in place. Maybe you work better on the right rein because you're right-handed? Hope this helps.

[Kezzabelle]

Thanks for your reply, funny thing is though im left handed!!

luv Kez x

[cvb]

rising trot with no stirrups: rising trot should not be 'forced' and should not be done by 'standing' in your stirrups. The forward momentum of the horse should swing your forward. As such, you can take the stirrups away and still rise ! (Just imagine it as a more controlled bump !!) Though the rise will be less high etc and you do need to use your thighs to get the control so you don't just fly all over the place.

Sitting trot: if you tighten up to protect yourself, then it is a bit like turning yourself into a tightened drum skin - move against anything and you'll bounce ! Relax and you will allow your body to move with the horse more.

Sounds to me like you are tightening at the hips - this would explain the "body forward" when you put legs back - you are pivoting about your hips. Relaxing and opening your hip joints will defintely help with all paces !

Most people and horses are one sided to a lesser or greater degree. I am right handed but my stiff side is left. Because my right side is stronger I have problems relaxing it and allowing it to turn properly to the left. I also have to watch as I can collapse my left hip/waist, which also causes problems. One leg (right) is stronger and more dominant, so lateral work is better one way than the other, and one hip also turns more easily. You may be doing some of this (but in reverse ;) ) as they are quite common rider problems.

Useful exercises for this are things like (on the ground) twisting from the waist in either direction. Can you turn your head equally both ways ? Make sure when you are riding that you turn your shoulder around the corners the same on both reins. When you are riding (safely or on lunge) lift the inside arm up by your arm to straighten your inside rib cage. On the lunge, hold both arms out to your side, then turn from the waist one way then the other.

Another one on the ground. Lie on the floor, with arms slightly out to your side to stabilise yourself. Knees bent up, feet on the floor. Then gradually turn your knees to one side, then the other, so you are rolling your knees and hips. If you are up to it and don't have any back problems, you can roll all the way til your knees touch the floor. (This can be a really nice stretch). I find this easier one way than the other.

[Kezzabelle]

Thanks for your advice cvb. (Ive been practising your exercises, they really have helped me!)

I've just had another lesson and it was a great improvement! I also had a new instructor too. I found that during trot I was lesson bouncy and more relaxed and I was able to hold my legs still (well stillish! not completely perfect yet!). Heather Moffets explanation of how the legs should sit - "they should cling like a wet cloth" really helped me get a good understanding. Still having a little problem keeping my legs long and stopping them falling foward in the stirrup irons, but my new instructor was always remeinding me to slide my foot back and hang my leg long (and get those toes pointing inwards!!). Another thing i did aswell was shorten up the reins a good bit, this was another thing my instructor was constantly reminding me to do. Whenever im about to trot ive always thought the horse will work better if i give him a longer rein to go forward, this was obviosuly not the case, this instructor picked up on this imediatley and as a result i could keep Riz on the track easier and stop him cutting corners, i guess i was just scared of pulling on Riz's mouth but shortining my reins helped me get a good 20 metre circle without Riz slowing down when we turn. This made me realise there is a fine line between pulling the reins and keeping contact.
I also managed to get Riz into a good working trot for most of the lesson, instead of his usual sluggish dragging his hind legs! I could really feel the difference! And my canter! for the first time since ive been riding Riz I really felt we were going in harmony, I think im getting used to Riz's pace and with all these gym workouts ive been doing im not so stiff anymore. Sorry to go on but im really chuffed with myself!! :D

Luv Kez x

[cvb]

one of those breakthrough moments that keep us all going :D Congrats and glad to be of use...

[jkcavanaugh]

Hi Kez,

I've been experiencing the same scenerio, the bouncing thing. I've made myself so paranoid that I've totally forgotten why I'm riding. For me it's for the fun of it........So on Sunday. I said to heck with perfection. I focused on enjoying my ride. I did great and it was too fun.........My horse did better for me than ever before. We were in sync. I was relaxed because I didnt' care anymore. However, in the past when I rode bare-back my horse didn't bounce as much. Maybe you could talk to your instructor about giving it a try without the saddle. Let me know........

JK

[tarkia]

Stop!
Stop the riding lessons for a while and have a few lunging lessons, this will really improve your position and balance. It will be a lot easier for you because you won't have to worry about controlling the horse yourself you just have to think about the yourself. Lunging lessons really do help and the horses will apreciate it too because then you won't be bouncing up and down in canter which can put some horses off cantering.
Have a go, really it does work!