Engaging the hindquarters - in a Pelham!!

[Kerry's Partner]

I just wanted to reinforce this. Kerry is "still" in her rubber Pelham with elastic curb - sounds like a lifetime but it's only a few months really and with her especially selected snaffle inbetween at that.

I, the inexperienced, cannot describe in words the change in her - all credit to Sue Carnell and, of course Heather and EE. Over the last six weeks especially, she has engaged her hindquarters so much more readily every time I've ridden her. SO, for the mo' I can honestly say to anyone who has ever cast doubt over EE and especially the "outline" prior to engagement - in my horse I have "proof". She NEEDED to be able to relax FIRST. Now she CAN do that she is ready to go on.

Sandra

[Evangelista]

Hi

It's a mind-blowing experience when you first feel your horse going correctly! However, I frequently come across people who think that their horse is going well when in fact all it's doing is tucking its nose into its chest - usually to escape the sawing action that its rider believes brings it onto the bit!

How do you convince people like that that there actually IS a difference? It's got me stumped :rolleyes: I exercised a mare not so long ago whose owner said "just do this with your hands" (visualise demonstration of sawing action, please :( ) "and she'll drop her nose". I tried to tell her that that wasn't the way to do it but I knew very quickly that I was on a hiding to nothing - the mare goes like a giraffe with nose in air, hollow back... but her owner *thinks* she's on the bit :eek: WHAT DO YOU DO?????

[Tootsie4U]

Hi Kerry's Partner -
SO are you saying the phelam fixed everything? Im having similar problems with my new guy in getting him to relax and submit to the rider on his back. Do you think, based on your new experience, the a phelam would help?

:)

[Kerry's Partner]

Evangelista,

It's funny in a way because about 3-4 months ago people were telling me that Kerry was going in a brilliant outline but she wasn't engaging her hindquarters. They "blamed" the Pelham for this and thought I didn't understand. Whereas in fact I did understand and the purpose of the whole thing was to allow/encourage Kerry to relax IN ORDER that she could begin to use her hindquarters. I found the criticism I received initially quite hard to deal with but I've also had some brilliant support so I've stuck to our plan and it is working.

Tootsie4U,

No I don't mean to suggest that the bit fixed everything. It was used by me after it was introduced to Kerry by Sue Carnell - so Kerry was schooled by Sue in it and then I was. We (Kerry and I had several different problems) and they too have needed to be "sorted out".

My thread has been posted really just to say this has worked for us - Kerry is now engaging her hindquarters (this is what my instructor is telling me and other observers - and it's what I feel too) because she has been able to relax, and then develop the right muscles to do the job. It is magic, it does feel absolutely out of this world, but it will still take time and for me lots more support, tuition and instruction because I've been a total coward through it all and I'm sure teaching me must be like pulling teeth I'm such a wimp; for Kerry, as I said, she's ready for Sue to teach her yet more.

The time issue is quite salient I think 'though. With Heather's methods and Sue's brilliant ability to work with us (and we aren't easy - at least I don't think I am) that became our breakthrough. Then we've had to work at this which we've done with further help from Sue and both Sam (my home-based instructor) and Eraldo (another instructor from our Yard who has had a lesson from Sue and who rides/schools Kerry when I can't). BUT it's just taken six months to get this far - and that, in our circumstances, is amazing imo. SO I have much to thank everyone for.

[Sue Carnell]

Hi Tootsie,

Your new horse is just 3 isn't he? Although I believe a mild pelham with elastic curb is a good remedial bit for many horses, I think that if you can start a youngster with a very basic snaffle it would be best. I start mine in a mullen snaffle and a cavesson (lunging), with reins attached to both until they understand rein aids. I don't expect them to go 'on the bit' immediately, they need to understand and find their balance with a rider first.

Sue Carnell
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Tootsie4U]

Gotcha Sue ;)

Remedial is the key word, huh! I gotta do some more thinking about cutting back on my guy. Maybe I AM demanding too much at one time

[Kerry's Partner]

It might help for you to know that Kerry is "supposedly" rising 14 -and I'm much older than that - so yes remedial is the key word in our situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Evangelista
However, I frequently come across people who think that their horse is going well when in fact all it's doing is tucking its nose into its chest - usually to escape the sawing action that its rider believes brings it onto the bit!

How do you convince people like that that there actually IS a difference?

Photography.

[Heather]

Nice one, Galadriel!! Er... short and to the point!


Sandra, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head- the pelham allows the horse to relax, and once that happens, the resistance in the hind end disappears. Provided the rider keeps the hindlegs coming under and isn't bamboozled into thinking that just because the head is in a pretty position, that everything is OK- it isn't! That is just the beginning!! It is from this relaxed jaw and mindset that the rest of the body can work.

I worked with a stunning Hispano Arab last Sunday. HIs owner had been to me for a workshop a few weeks ago and had sent me a video of her horse. He is 13 years old, she is comparatively inexperienced. She bought the horse three years ago, him having been imported by quite a well know Classical rider. He found him impossible and sold him after only 9 days. He went to a competition dressage rider - he has movement to die for- and she sold him after six months as a 'head case'. My friend bought him for a song and despite her inexperience, she is extremely bright and perceptive, and the horse has formed a good relationship with her, although to be fair she asks little of him.

I watched him on video being ridden by a Portuguese trainer, and was surprised at how much hand and spur he used, although the latter was used very quietly so as not many would have noticed, but nonetheless, I could see that when the horse hopped about, it was largely due to the spur.

I couldn't wait to have a sit on him and so when upcountry last weekend, off I went to ride him.

Owner had warned me that several Classical riders had declined to get on him, but I couldn't for the life of me see why! Hot, sharp, confused, yes, but bad, no way.

His owner had been having lots of problems getting him to accept his nice KK snaffle, and spent most of her lessons trying to get him on the bit. This had led to her fiddling a lot with her hands, and he just got more and more mouthy.

I watched her ride him for a few minutes, with him looking tense and cross, opening his mouth, and generally being very mouthy with the bit. I then popped on the pelham I had brought with me- good old hard rubber mullen mouth, elastic curb chain. I had virtually no sooner put it on that he relaxed his jaw, lowered his head and started to move forwards with no hassle. His rider's face was a picture! Her hands stayed still, no need to 'fiddle, and he just stayed quiet and relaxed, head just before vertical, and the wonderful movement just amplified still more.


I then got on and started to see what he knew. I guessed that this is a very educated, albeit rusty horse. As soon as I got on, I think he knew that I woudl ask him rathre more than his owner. The tension came back, and he started to refuse to go forwards, cantering on the spot as soon as I asked him to do say, a little shoulder-in in walk.

It seems that others had got on and made him do things, and this is where he had started to get angry- and refused point blank to do anything. His owner had been told by various trainers to get rid of him- even the Portuguese guy whom I thought would have understood his temperament and problems, declared that he didn't like him at all.

I just asked him very quietly, and if he objected or backed off, I just relaxed, and gave him nothing to fight. It took me forty minutes of this- just quietly asking, rewarding if he gave me anything and backing off but relaxing and reassuring him if he didn't. At the end of the forty minutes, he said 'you're Ok, lets work'. At that point, I was able to tie up the curb rein, and just work him on the snaffle. What a horse!! He gave me all the lateral exercises, loosening up all the time, and what a canter- apparently nobody had cantered him for three years as he bogged off each time anyone had tried!! HIs canter was so gloriously light, uphill, balanced, I could just sit there, holding him on my seat, and look as if I was doing nothing, and I had just the weight of the reins in my hands- so much for this strong, runaway horse!

I confess I hadn't even a hat on ( yes I know, bad example naughty!)- not for one second did I feel that horse was going to try to do anything nasty to me. He just needed riding with utmost tact and understanding and I know that if I was able to ride him regularly, he would be a piece of cake.

I am certain that part of his problem had been that he was unhappy in the snaffle. He was undoubtedly schooled in a double or curb in Spain, and crude use of the snaffle had made him very worried, yet I reckon given a couple of weeks ridden in the Pelham, once he 'gave' and wanted to work, just riding him off the snaffle rein- he could go back in a mullen mouth hard rubber snaffle easily, if that is what his rider wanted.


So yes, Sandra, you are quite right - we use the pelham entirely to obtain relaxation, then the rest is down to time and the skill of the rider.


Heather

[Kerry's Partner]

Thanks so much. Oh if I had he riding skills I'd so love to possess already on the one hand. On the other hand 'though I have to say just experiencing the bits of development I do are quite a wonder - of course I needed to (and still do sometimes) throw all of my frustrations to the wind first - but it was well worth it because every little improvement is such a dream to be experienced.

Also, for the time being it's really good to be able to say that with the help I am able to benefit from since being back from Devon, my lack of skill is at least partially compensated for so that Kerry can still continue to develop in the way she so rightly deserves.

So I still say a big thank you to everyone for all the support I've had over the last six months - but thanks to those who helped before too of course, the first of whom was Mike Peace as you know. Without Mike's help initially I don't know how on earth things would have turned out for Kerry.