Overweight Animals

[Appaloosa]

Hi, I am a cob enthusiast.

Does anyone here have an opinion on the weight of show animal recently? Can anyone agree that judges now look for fat not fit animals?

I am often marked down in the ring for lack of condition, yet my horse is well covered and toned, and in the showing season does about 90mins work each day.

I'd just like to hear your views.

X - A - X

[Wally]

Don't get me going on this one too!

I used to do private show driving, pairs, the two horses I drove were also my endurance horses, one week it was a 50 mile endurance ride, 2 days later a private driving show. My stallions were FIT.

One year we had done the Golden Horseshoe in May, the Summer Solstice in June, 2, 100 mile endurance rides and been placed in both. Then in July we did the Royal show. The judge put us down 2 places and she said the horses were too lean! After the 7 mile show drive, all at working trot Stow and Strauss were the olny ones not gasping for breath and in a muck sweat.

I consulted the vets on the next training 40 mile ride I did and asked them if the horses were too thin, he laughed at me and said most show judges like to see fat rather than fit.

[Appaloosa]

What fantastic results on your endurance! I suppose you must have been extremley proud, which you should be.
I have to admit I do agree with show animals being in good condition, but I definatley believe they should be fit and toned, such as your two horses.

I have been in a ring before when we were cantering around and one animal had to be taken into the corner to regain its breath as it was so hoarse (no pun intended!!). Yet, not only did the said horse win the class, but it went on to be supreme champion.

I just don't understand it. More effort is made by competitors who exercise and school their animals rather than pump them full of unnessecery concentrates, yet it is these people who get overlooked.

X - A - X

[LindaAd]

There's been a lot of discussion in Horse & Hound about this lately, so you're not alone, Appaloosa. People are saying that show judges do want horses far too fat, and that it's bad for the horses' health, and they're campaigning against it.

I don't go in for showing - my boy's too short-legged and short-necked to be a show cob - but we're constantly battling for more fitness, less fatness...

[Mehitabel]

i can't speak for cobs, since i'm a new forest girl, but i know in the nf scene there has been a big move to favour fitter ponies in the ring over the last couple of years. we feed ours lots of long-soaked hay, so not much nutrition, but bulk to stop them getting too lean. we also strap to build up neck and bum muscle, which makes a big difference to their bulk without putting on lard.

[Tiggerrrr]

I have a show cob, which I show at county level. I personally do think the issue of fat or fit show horses, is a problem and I am actually hoping that the action taken by the BSPS this year....banning judges from judging HOYS and RIHS qualifiers etc....makes a difference! I am very particular about my cob, I don't want him to be fat, I would much rather have 10yrs of showing with him fit and not win a class than have 2-3yrs of successful showing by having a fat horse. Last year, we managed to do well in the Search For A Star competition....and for once we heard from a WELL respected show producer/judge say that my boy has what he called 'perfect condition!' I work him a lot for a show horse, as I would much rather a fit and muscular cob, it is a lot of commitment, which I am more than happy to do, as long as I get from him what I would like, then I am very happy!

[KarlR]

This is definitely a problem. One girl that I know who did a lot of showing had a horse that was grossly overweight and not very fit.

It was shown at a medium level and she was marked down because the judge said "it needed a little more weight to cover up the fact that it was long in the back"!

Unfortunately, while judges continue to interpret "condition" as "fat" rather than the true meaning: "nicely muscled" this will be an issue. I was delighted to see the recent attack on showing judges by Robert Eustace - a man who has done more to help laminitics than almost anyone else. Horses will continue to suffer until judges as a whole realise that a fat horse is not healthy and that it should not be encouraged.

Now, whilst venting! - there is also the height issue. My horse is 16.1hh, but in 2001 he was stabled next to a MUCH bigger show horse - one that had a lifetime certificate from a vet "proving" that he was under 15.3hh! It's the "presence" you know (as I recently saw written by a top show producer) - rather than the fact that (as I have been reliably informed) top show horses commonly get false certificates made out by vets who turn a blind eye to the fact that the horses are presented for measurement a year early!

[Cochise]

I showed a cob at several shows here in NZ. I believe that he was too fat, yet I still worked him quite alot. I was beginning to turn it into muscle when the owner came screaming up saying that I had been working to horse too much, that he was a show animal and not an eventer. I dont actually show much anymore, mainly event and show jump, so have to have a very fit and capable horse.
Tell my your opinions on this, This is Danny:

[Cochise]

there was also an opinions board on UL Horse and Rider magazine, the November 2002 issue, on this issue.
I agree, show horses are miles too fat, damaging internal and external organs and joints and they are kept entirely like cotton wool is wrapped around them 24/7.
Muscle is so much more attractive than fat!

[Tiggerrrr]

KarlR, I agree with you about the 'height issue' as well....My boy is half a cm within the height limit, yet we are usually one of the smallest by a clear few inches....I wonder how come?! :rolleyes:

[Appaloosa]

many thaks form all your replies, I couldn't agree more. And especially well done to Tigerrr and her baby for Search for a Star. I am proposing to take mine some time so i'd be greatful if you could give me an account of your day. Did Robert Oliver judge you? Oh and are there any 'working cobs' out there? Mine is an up and coming worker.

Cochise, Danny's a babe. Fit not fat, thats the motto so don't take what the lady said to heart.

X - A - X

[Cochise]

I wish that we had more real cobs here. They are far and few between unfortunately!! We mainly breed sporthorses and racehorses I think!!

[Waikato Valuta]

WOW someone who thinks what i think. I was shocked at this years royal show. I saw horses that were realy obese winning classes. I saw one lady bring her horse out ride it in draw reins for about 1hr, before the show.

I have noticed a fad recently with huge fat bodys and skinny little necks. It looks realy wierd. Every single horse in the garyown looked shocking. Hope I am not offending anyone. I saw several horses worked hevily in heavy cloth neck covering on a very hot day.

I know a few people who ride there horses the day befroe a show and thats it. They just use the double bridle to pull there head in and away they go.

I also know some one who feeds her horse about 10kg of grain and then wonders why it is so loopy. It get Oil and realy heatting grain and it's never worked because it keeps srpaining things. This lady is alway on about how skinny my horses are. Granted you can see the faint out line of ribs on my hosres but they are feed heaps and very fit.

Every horse on the property apart from mine and two others are obese because they think it is crule not to hard feed them. None of them are being worked and they are all off there heads.

[Esther.D]

I agree with the fat not fit issue too I think it is disgusting how much damage is being done to ponies and horses in the name of showing. Just to throw another bone of contention into the circle...

What do you think of riders riding in the hunter class who cannot mount unaided???

Last year I saw a small woman (can't have been much bigger than me, I'm 5ft), quite big (if you see what I mean) riding a heavy-weight hunter that was HUGE, I mean HUGE I have no idea of the height but it towered over all the 16.2hhs, must have been near 18hh.
Now this would not be a problem in my books....as short people can ride big horses if they want...BUT her groom had to carry a set of steps into the ring for her to mount!!!! Now I could readily excuse a leg-up or a lengthened stirrup to get onto such a big horse...but a little step ladder!!!! This was in the County Show so she had qualified to get that far. In my books if you are riding in a HUNTER class you have to be able to get on and off as you can't carry a set of steps out hunting with you! I dont have a problem with her riding the horse but I think it was inappropriate to the show class she was in.

Opinions please - am I being unfair?

[Gemma16]

Hi, i have big issues with the whole fit or fat thing. I refuse to fatten my horses up just for the show ring it's cruel. Recntly a friend of mine got marked down in a cob class she entered because her horse was to thin! She was hardly thin, she was just fitter than the others. Could I have your opinions on wether you think she isn't fat enough for a cob class?

[Equitating]

She is simply gorgeous. No, she isn't fat but she isn't thin. She has really great muscle definition. Thumbs up from me!

[Hesseybabe]

As if, she is no way too thin, not fat either. I would say that she looks very fit.
Prince has no chance in a cob class then, altho he cud do with gaining a few lbs, after winter.

[Gemma16]

Thank you so it's not just me that thinks shes a babe!:D Another issue with showing cobs is the height, the rules state 14.2-15.1 max. Why don't people take any notice. Its even worst at county level they just get bigger and fatter. Arn't cobs ment to be able to go out on a days hunting? Most of the horses I see have trouble breaking into a gallop!!:mad:

[Wally]

A cob is supposed to be a weight carrier, the more of his own weight he has to lug about the less of the rider he can efficiently carry.

Okay a cob should look chunky, but big muscles and a frame to carry them on, not sloppy fat.

[Cochise]

Another of Danny unmounted he was such a babe! and he didnt wobble!lol

[Cochise]

And one more of us in action in the show ring when I used to show :)

[Janette]

Another issue with showing cobs is the height, the rules state 14.2-15.1 max.

I was reassured to see that Gemma16 wrote this. Star is 14.2 - would she be disadvantaged in a class of cobs, who are around '15.1'? I worry!!!!!!

[Gemma16]

Hi Janette, My friends mare Calli is 14.2 also they shouldn't be at a disadvantage but many of tyhe other horses are much bigger and can make a 14.2 look like a 13hh pony.:( If the judge really knows what a cob should be like this shouldn't be a problem:) Good luck with star!

[Janette]

Many thanks, I would hate to make Star look a fool in the ring. our first show will be in May, so I'll keep you posted as to our progress.

[Gemma16]

Good luck, can't wait for your show results and pictures:D
Have Fun!

[Tiggerrrr]

Hiya Appaloosa,

Sorry I haven't replied, I missed your post somehow! Search For A Star.....is AMASING! Yes robert Oliver judged us and he even commented that my boy is in his opinion a 'proper' lightweight show cob, fit not fat. A female judge rode, her name escapes me at present and she rode very well. It was a very close call between my boy and the h/w who took 1st, as they were evenly matched, it finally went on the weights.

The day ran a bit behind, we were due to enter the ring at 3.45 and finally entered at about 5.15pm. One tip I would give anyone who enters, make sure your horse is ok with being indoors and dealing with unusal obstacles as there is plenty for them to look at! We entered the ring, walked round whilst the judges, Robert Oliver and Anne Pritchard talked the audience through what they are looking for in a cob etc. then the show begins, they asked us all to trot on, followed by canter, change of rein, canter on the other rein and finally gallop. Our gallop was cut short as a lady fell off just before us:( nevermind! Then we were called in for selection, the judge rode and then we were asked to walk the horses out for conformation, however we were asked to leave them saddled up due to time, then re-mount. Then the next five minutes felt like a lifetime! Finally 5th place was called, then 4th, then 3rd and then Robert Oliver announced my cobs name proudly and then oh, erm number such and such and spoke for ages! lol! Everyone else was called out by number, so I had an incling at this point that RO liked my boy.....when it came to the rosette presentation, the sponsor was supposed to be handing them out, but Robert Oilver came over and said, "I WANT to give this one," looking at my boy, came over, handed me the rosette, shook my hand and said, "You have a very handsome cob, he'll go far. I loko forward to seeing you out next season!" my jaw hit the floor.....my showing idol had told me what I had always wanted to hear, I was grinning like a cheshire cat :D

While on the note of cobs....my boy and I are doing working cobs this year and so far have taken two 2nd's this season already!:D

[Kanuma]

I totaly agree WITH YOU THAT fat animals should NOt be placed above fit ones I know that my CONNamara does alot better when he is fit but he is NAturaly very big even whEN he is supER fit. I work him 3 hours on weds, sats ans sundays and 1hour every other day during term time and 2 hours every day during the hols, except when i'm at a show, so i'm one of the lucky ones whos pony CANt be picked on BY tHe judges I'LL POst SOME Pictures when i get my scanner Working. I also agree about the height prOblem i've gone into classes for connamaras who are restricted to under 14.2hh and ive been against 17hh horses it isnt fair on others. Needless to say stanly wiped the floor with them as he's the best And NOBody is going to say otherwise!!!!
(and i put alot of offical complaints in). If you put an objectio in at a county show they should automaticly remeasure the horse whether or not he has a height cert. Everybody keep your horses fit not fat they can win if their fit. The judges just need re-educating good luck every body

[Laetitia]

I read somewhere that the judges are being re-educated to look for fit not fat as previously. After all they are responsible for encouraging fat show horses, liking them 'well rounded'. So, hopefully soon, your fit, well conditioned cob will find his place in the show ring. L