Hard to Stop

[Jane Williams]

I have asked this question on another forum but I'm still interested in hearing different opinions.

I recently bought a new horse. I have had her for around 2 months now. The trouble is that she is hard to stop....even in a walk.

For instance on the weekend I rode her (only walking) to a different paddock 1-2km down the road. As she was walking away from the home she was fine. Once I got to that paddock and the cattle we were shifting she was very hard to pull up and I admit that as a result my hands became very heavy....we were walking in the direction towards home.

The suggestions that I have already been given are :

*Check your hands
*Repeatedly stop, praise and continue
*Change bit
*Check saddle

This weekend I walked around on a very loose rein and to stop I did exactly what was required (squeeze hands, squeeze cheeks).

Say 9/10 out of times she'll stop, but it's the 1/10 times that I really need her to stop! It almost like she choose when she wants to stop. Does that make sense?

What is your suggestion? Do you think a pelham would help or not? The bit I'm currently using on her is a FM and yes, I do have keepers on.

[Jo]

Hi

You say that the one in ten time she refuses to stop is when you need her to... This may be the problem. If you feel she is not going to stop, you may well be tensing and she may take this as a reason to worry.

Some mares are headstrong, though. Always remember that hauling on the reins will have the opposite effect... and will teach your mare that she is stronger than you.

You haven't said here what breed or size she is; cobs may well be sensible but they are notoriously strong whereas warm blooded breeds will get upset more easily. Does she evade your contact? My mare has in the past tried this, especially if she is worried. Her tactic is to raise her head above the point of control, so a running martingale is the answer to that (properly fitted, or it will have the opposite effect!). I also know a mare who does the opposite - she puts her head to the ground, grabs the bit and she's off!

If I am riding something that is not wanting to stop and I worry it may be an issue rather than a need to keep up with the ride, I imagine we are heading for a cliff and somehow I find the means to stop! Legs, back and, if necessary, hand.

I hope this helps

[Jane Williams]

Zarley is a very beautiful anglo arab, 16.1 1/2 hh.

[floppy]

when we get a new icelandic at the yard (one thats on commision to be sold on) and its brakes dont function then what we do is ride them in the arena in all gaits to figure out if there are any braking problems and then we go through all the gaits again individually asking the horse to stop and when he stops we give him a pat and a horse treat and then repeat this excercies so the horse is responding from the voice and the weight aids.

Once the horse understand what you are asking then you give him the treat every other time.

Then after the ride int he arena you go out for a short hack and repeat the exercise.

Then you just repeat this for a few days gradually lessening the treats until you dont need the treats anymore.

ITs bribary, people may not agree with it. But it works for us. The last horse took about 3days to learn to brake and stop when he was told to.

[galadriel]

Hee, floppy, I did much the same, and actually overdid it a touch--I'm having trouble getting Kat to try to balance when she stops, because she screeches to a halt any time I indicate we are stopping. She's TOO eager to do it and get praised. Silly :) But hey, this is something I can work through and brakes are good.

[ros]

I use bribery and corruption too - say what you like, it works :D

Merlin used to have a puddle phobia, so fairly recently I managed to get him to put one foot in a tiny puddle, then used the C-word ("Clever" - can't say it out loud, he knows what it means) and gave him a sugar lump.

Now he sees a puddle, makes a dive for it and stands in the middle of it waiting for his sugar. He found two within the space of 20 yards on Sunday - he was still munching the first lump when he got to the second puddle. Time to tone it down a bit, I think :rolleyes:

[ros]

Oh, and on the subject of stopping!

There was a riding school horse I rode a few times who would just walk through the bit. (It was before I really learned to use my seat the Enlightened way.)

Sue met the same horse later and discovered a) that he WOULD respond to the seat, properly used, and b) he was terrified of his mouth - he wore a jointed snaffle of some description, I think; Sue tried him in a Pelham and he was much happier. Strange how horses sometimes do the opposite of what you'd expect. You'd think from the way this one behaved that he simply had no respect for the bit - he was supposed to be very strong, sometimes unstoppable, poor lad, and was treated accordingly :(

[Kerry's Partner]

I think you said "squeeze hands, squeeze cheeks". I'd teach her the other way around: "squeeze thighs and cheeks and almost immediately squeeze fingers (not hands). I hope this makes sense. I'd also teach her when I felt it was safe/didn't matter to me (because I'm a wimp). And, I agree with Ros - I'd use bribery if this matters so much to you. Give the aids and if she responds a bit - give her a tap with one finger on the neck and when she turns to you give her a polo!!!!!!!!!! Then progress. Then you don't need polos.

[ros]

Sorry, me again! I do agree with Floppy that it's probably much easier to teach a horse initially to stop in the right environment (like when you're about three feet away from a big a brick wall). No self-respecting horse would allow itself to be stopped on the way home without at least having a brief discussion about it. (Unless there's a treat in the offing, of course ;) )

[jkcavanaugh]

Jane,

Have the same problem with my arab "Oliver" expecially on the lane coming home.
If he doesn't stop then he has to do circles, small tight circles.
I just pull his head around and away we go. I then stop him in the opposite direction and he gets praised. We turn to go home and after a bit if he doesn't stop again we do more circles. He learns really fast. And we do these circles no matter if we're trotting, racking, cantering or walking. My husband says "What do I expect?" "He's an arab" It's hard for him to be still anyway. Always ready to go.

[floppy]

i know someone who when she is suppose to perform a task and forgets it instead of continuing around the arena and then trying again she makes her horse circle. If she cant stop then she circles her pony..it has gotten to the extent when all she does is circle her pony and laugh...and also the pony does circles if he is confused...now she is having a hard time trying to be serious and get rid of this circle business.

But i also knwo another lady who has problems stopping and spend forever circling her pony while waiting for me to ctahc up and it settles her pony down

[horsemad]

Ros - I love your description of Merlin and the puddles! Isn't it amazing how horses respond to treats in this way? I think my horse could be persuaded to do just about anything if there was a food reward at the end of it. :D

[jkcavanaugh]

I think my point was misunderstood. You simply circle to get controll and then when you stop there sould be praise for stopping. This is what you're trying to teach this horse.
Also stopping and teaching your horse to park-out or stretch.
More on this if you're interested.

[Tootsie4U]

I understand your point jkc...... (forgive me, I am too lazy to type it out) We do this while we are on the ground too. If the horses are a bit "hyper" coming out of their stall we circle them to #1 get their attention #2 slow them down #3 as a "punishment" for dragging us to the paddock. You've got my support

[Heather]

Clicker training, Jane, clicker training. It works a treat. My Hispano Arab, Fantasia, will halt dead from even a fast canter, if I just click with my tongue, a 'clock' sound, not the sort of encouraging click you woudl use to move on!

Fanta was a nightmare out in the outdoors school for a long time after I brought him over from pOrtugal where he had been ridden almost entirely indoors. In my indoors school, he is no problem, but if anything spooked him on the outdoor school he woudl literally run through the bridle in panic. He was just plain dangerous.

Alex kurland, whose CT clinic we are just talking about- came to stay with me after last years clinic here in the UK> She and I taught Fanta some clicker under saddle, and I have never looked back. It was really funny one day, because my yard manager Debbie,came to the indoor school door, and asked me if I had done any clicker with Luchia, our Lusitano x TB mare, saying that she had tried it on her when riding and when she went 'clock' with her tongue, Lucy had stopped. As Debbie 'clocked' with her tongue, I was riding Fanta down the long side of the school- he heard her, stopped dead out of a trot and looked round for his treat! We both had a good laugh!- butit just proves how effective it is.


Heather

[jkcavanaugh]

Heather, I would like to know more about this clicker training.

Thanks
JKc

[Jane Williams]

There's heaps of sites on the internet about it. The one I'm looking at the moment is http://theclickercenter.com/guide/guide02.html

[Heather]

Hi folks,

The clickercentre.com is my friend Alexandra Kurland's site- she is coming over in September t do another two clinics here -see the thread.

Heather

[Wally]

Ugla has stopping issues at the moment.

Being a school horse she gets all sorts of folk riding her, somethimes they can be a bit coarse. I can get her to stop holding the buckle end of the reins and using only backside. If someone tries to use the reins to stop she will barge through the rein. But when someone has been taught to pull the reins to stop it is a hard habit to get oput of.

Fákur too will object to being asked to halt this way.

These are communication issues though, indoors or out they will stop with the most novice of person when the lead horse stops.

[Peace]

It is unfortunate, how horses (like the one ros mentioned) can get themselves in some of the same negative feedback loops that we riders can. Around here, a lot of people think the reins are a sort of hand-brake. Then the horse gets to resisting, and is hauled around even more - I know a woman whose horse has actually gotten to the point of rearing.:(

Quanah doesn't stop reliably with a rein aid, but does very well with a seat/weight aid. I think he's been hauled around by the mouth in the past - at first he was very resistant to being bridled. But - lucky horse - I have such poor hands that I gave up using them long ago.:o I just depend on seat and legs. After the first few times I rode him and didn't use my reins, he started letting me put on the bridle with no fuss. Of course, I know I need to learn to use my hands one day, but right now he and I don't do much riding (he's still a young'un), so it's no big deal. For us, I guess ignorance really is bliss.

I love the stories about horses screeching to a halt and leaping into puddles! But I wouldn't call it bribery - that's something you give before the behavior occurs to induce it. I'd call it a well-earned reward!:)

Heather - thanks for posting about the "clock" sound. I've been trying to come up with something I could use as a conditioned reinforcer that wouldn't require carrying around a clicker or a whistle. I'm too uncoordinated to handle all that! I'm still unsure about treats with Quanah - nippy youngster - but I thought I might try using it with praise and petting and see if it works.

[Heather]

Lord, Peace!Don't berate yourself for not being able to use the clicker under saddle - it is hopeless!! My business partner and friend Pete Ward, has complained loudly that he can't even get his thumb in the clicker to click it, so has had to rely on the 'clock' of the tongue for all training!

Heather

[Kerry's Partner]

Kerry responds instantly to the click of the tongue too - if she's doing what Sam calls: "She's listening to you very well but "not listening in a way", I click and she "engages". In fact he "clicked" himself last week and, whilst I was gobsmacked to hear him do that so was distracted, Kerry scooted off under me because I let it all out the front end.

It was quite funny but also quite deep and meaningful I felt.

[tarkia]

Hmm this could just be "testing" you to see what things she can get away with. Also have the vet come and give her a check-up.