What type of pelham?

[DITZ]

Heather I have been most impressed with your philosophy and have just read your book from end to end and been totally engrossed. I have learnt more from your book than all the other books I have read put together, not to mention some of the lessons I've had at £20 an hour! It is beautifully written and above all makes sense.

I noticed that you promote the use of the pelham as a way of relaxing the jaw and I would like to try it on my 15.1TB who at 12 has not been schooled to my certain knowledge since he was 4 or 5. He is quite forward going but getting him into an outline is difficult, he can be quite flat and hollow and can really resist going on the bit (french link snaffle) and has tried a variety of tricks from snatching, pulling, leaning going above, below you name it. As soon as I combat one area of resistance he finds another way.

What I wanted to know was what type of pelham should I try i.e. rubber, jointed etc. Any advice you could give me would be great. Also, how long would you give it before changing back, if at all?

[Jane Williams]

"The hard rubber Pelham that I use has a mullen mouthpiece, and combined with an elastic curb chain, you have a very mild combination, always use with two reins by the way, with no nutcracker action, unlike even the French link which has lots."

taken from this site. To have a look for yourself go to

http://www.newrider.com/Kinder_Way/heather_mb3.html

[sarahcol]

I just want to say how wonderous the pelham bit is!!!!

I schooled my 15 year old mare (who I have to say is one of the very independent types and does what she sees fit!) in her rubber pelham on Tuesday and got flying changes, shoulder-in, etc without any effort and she was so willing as well. Completely balanced between hand, leg and seat and it felt sooooooo good!

School her in her normal french link snaffle and it all goes to pot!!!!

Would recommend without a doubt!

[DITZ]

Thats what I need!!! Sounds like you had a wonderful session. Just one thought though, he can be very strong whilst out hacking and has been known to take off with me so I use a flash to stop him evading the bit. Would you recommend using a normal steel pelham for that extra bit of braking power or the rubber or does it not matter? I see you were also in a french link - did you try a jointed pelham or go for the straight bar?

[Bebe]

My horse can get very onward on hacks and brakes are often the last thing on her mind. I find that with the pelham the canter is much more balanced and uphill so I don't have to worry quite so much about her getting strong and arguing with me about stopping. I have a happy mouth straight bar pelham (it's hard rubber but has two little grooves in the middle, think it's supposed to make it easier for the horse to swallow as it gives a bit of room for the tongue) and elastic curb rein and use two reins.

It's definitely made a huge difference out on hacks with my horse, without me having to resort to using the reins excessively and I wouldn't actually want to use a stainless steel pelham as she hates metal in her mouth.

I'd personally always try a straight bar pelham over a jointed as the action of the pelham is confused with a jointed mouthpiece. If you find that your horse dislikes the straight mouthpiece or you don't have enough control out hacking you could then try the jointed pelham.

[sarahcol]

Hi! I went straight for the straight bar variety. I also use it at shows as it makes her show herself off to the best advantage!!!

I also use the pelham when on fast rides - she just seems to respect it! No tanking and so light in the hand, even when everyone else was cantering in a group, she really wanted to go, but the tiniest squeeze and she was back into trot again!

I don't use a flash with either bit as I don't need. I tend to mainly ride in the french link as I don't want to use the pelham too often and the magic goes!!!!

[DITZ]

I have now moved to a mullen s.s pelham and wow what a difference!! No more nagging at him to drop his head and relax its all just there for you. I am using roundings at the moment cos I dont have a spare pair of reins and an elastic curb and all seems fine. He does try to drop the contact now and again and also tosses his head about a bit in walk-canter transitions mostly but also during canter but think this may just be excitedness what do you think? (I havent yet schooled him in it our ground is too wet so have only hacked so far so he does tend to get excitable)

[H & Bailey]

hi I was just reading this thread and was quite interested.I have never used or ridden in a pelham.
At the moment I am bringing Bailey back into work and ride in a fulmer .He is quite strong with his head in that if he sees something to the side he can pull his head right round to look and more or less ignore me,also if he is in a goey mood he is quite hard to keep in check.I dont know if Im not being firm enough as I dont want to be pulling on his mouth or hanging onto him.He was in a standing martingale but ive put him in a running as he is more forward going.I also use a flash as he has a tendency to lift his head up and back and open his mouth to try and go.He only does this when excited,otherwise he goes forwards nicely.As tend to ride alone I dont really find him bad but today I went out with my sister on her loan pony and he was really strong and prancing all over showing off.
someone suggested trying a gag or a kimblewick.I was given a pelham but am unsure wether to try it?Do you think I should try a different bit for schooling/hacking in company? ie the pelham or get a kimblewick and see how he goes or persevere with him how he is and hope as he is young it gets out of his system and learns to behave with others.

[Heather]

HI Diitz and all,

Sorry tno to come in on this thread until now, but have had a lot of email to try to get through! Glad to hear that you are having success Ditz- it is very rare that the horse doesn't realise very quickly that you want him to relax his jaw and therfore his poll, and consequently his neck and back muscles, so that resistance is effectively removed. Once this happens, you will find the horse far more receptive to the rest of the aids- are you finding this?

I get so much stick for advocating the use of the Pelham, but it stops riders fiddling with or sawing on the reins, and they don't then resort to use of the dreaded draw reins, which are so incredibly damaging, unless used by extremely skilled riders.

I have just ridden a horse this afternoon, who is taking the mickey out of his owner completely. IN a snaffle, he just sticks his nose out and tanks- owner is far too little for him, but won't part with him. Horse was bred by my yard manager and I have known him since a foal. He is very wily, and extremely talented, and is sadly fast learing every trick in the book!

So, we said, bring him over here, before it gets out of hand. I popped him in the pelham, and he said- 'can't go', stuck his toes in and refused to budge. I just quietly swished a whip behind his bum, and he couldn't wuite make this out, and shot forwards. I rewarded him. This happened a good few times, and in about ten minutes, which is much longer than it usually takes me to get a horse to relax the lower jaw, he was stretching and taking the rein forward and down, back end really engaging and on basically loose reins.

Once the penny dropped it was as if he said 'ha', now I know what you want. We will have to repeat this a few times so that he knows he can go forward, and when he does he gets a reward.

I don't then think it will be long before he can go back in his snaffle. The pelham is a wonderful remedial bit, very kind in action when only mullen mouth with an elastic curb, but so effective. Less is definitely more with the pelham! Keep us posted!

Heather PS Glad you like the book!

[ros]

DITZ - if you're using roundings rather than two reins you've got curb action all the time and you can't "switch it off". That might perhaps be partly why your horse is still tossing his head a little and occasionally coming behind the bit. Try and get yourself a second pair of reins - that way you can choose whether or not to use the curb action.

Heather - you've just replied as I was typing! Can I ask a question? There seems to be a fairly common theory that if you ride a horse in a curb bit all the time he'll somehow get used to it and it won't be as effective. I haven't found that myself - do you think there's any truth in it?

[DITZ]

Thanks so much for your replies everyone. I schooled him today and also got a friend to video me as I was concerned that he was getting really behind the bit and its difficult for me to judge whilst on board but looking at the video he does seem about right apart from the odd occasion when he's dropping the contact. He was still tossing his head at faster paces tho but think a little more schooling will get past this. I will try another pair of reins I think tomorrow. Someone has suggested tho that with a straight bar it is sometimes better to have it slightly higher in the mouth and one of the reasons for the head tossing may be that its a little too low. Does anyone know about this?

Luckily I have the tooth fairy coming tomorrow so she can check him over for any problems there and the back man the day after. Do you know I wish I looked after my own health as well as I look after his!

Strange thing was my friend got on him and he wouldnt budge! Absolutely flatly refused to move forwards only backwards. (Am thinking heavy hands???) So we changed back to the snaffle for her and he was fine again. Odd. Is the pelham particularly strong or something? Mind you I do find I hardly use the reins with it.

[Bebe]

I think the reasoning behind having a straight bar higher in the mouth is that it's supposedly easier for a horse to get their tongue over the bit. You could try it higher and see if your horse goes better in it, but my mare much prefers the bit to be lower than you usually see (no wrinkles in her lips). Occasionally she'll try to get her tongue over it but only out on hacks when she thinks we should be galloping and we're not. She's never actually managed it even though I used to get regular lectures about it being a certainty.

I would guess that your horse refusing to move with a different rider is down to the rider - could be heavy hands, restrictive seat or something else, it's hard to say without seeing them. The pelham does have a reputation for being strong but I think that's mostly because they are usually used incorrectly. Used properly they aren't. And even if they were/are, the pressure is spread through the poll, curb groove and mouth which must be infinitely kinder to the horse than having the pressure solely on the mouth (bars, palate or tongue) as is the case with many "strong" bits.

If you can get hold of a second set of reins, I'd really strongly suggest having a go as it gives you much more refinement of the aids and your horse should respond better (you would hopefully eliminate the head tossing and coming behind the bit problem).

[ros]

I've never actually heard anyone recommend that a bar bit should be higher in the mouth, but I know one or two people who argued that a thick bar bit solves the problem - their horses have always, strangely, disproved their theory! I'm sure the main reason why horses get their tongue over is because they're uncomfortable, and I guess it's down to the horse which bit he likes and which he doesn't ;)

[Hels]

I have to confess that I have been using a Pelham with roundings, after trying with two reins and getting in a bit of a mess - I didn't have an EE instructor to help me out. Carrie originally came to me in a gag with a standing martingale and big bubble snaffle which caused her to toss her head like mad and charge round with her nose in the air.

I have found that using the Pelham in this way stopped Carrie's head tossing more or less completely and definitely got her to relax more and become a lot more rounded, but did quite often cause her to come behind the bit, presumably as a way of evading the pressure, so I understand exactly what you mean DITZ and why Heather gives the advice she does about always using two reins. I found that Carrie responded well only if you were very light with the reins - she did protest at anything even slightly heavy-handed.

I do plan to go back to trying the Pelham with two reins for some of the time now that my riding in general has improved a bit but I have also switched to a French link for schooling. She is going so much better in this than she ever went in the bubble snaffle / gag and I do feel that even though I used the Pelham incorrectly it has made a difference to her way of going that is for the better. She accepts the contact in the French link a lot better and is prepared to be quite soft.

I don't think that Carrie started to ignore the curb action at all in the several months that I have ridden her in a Pelham with the curb action switched "on" all the time. She got more used to it, and if anything more sensitive to it, and when on hacks (I feel sure that I should be told off for hacking in it with roundings!) when she was excited at a canter opportunity she anticipated being held back and perfected a jog with her head tucked in. People thought she was trying to be especially good and "on the bit" for me so she would be allowed to canter!

[Sarah]

Ros,

I'm going to have a go at answering he question you asked Heather about horses getting 'used' to a curb and then switching off to it. I am absolutely sure this can happen, the same way they can get dulled to a snaffle when it is used harshly or incorrectly all the time. I am sure with time that the same could happen to a curb, but through misuse rather than the horse 'getting used to it' when it is use properly (in the way Heather recommends).

I'm not saying htat I have good use of a pelham, or good hands, but i have ridden Tangers in a pelham for the last 3.5 years (with occassional bits of snaffle use now that she has learned to soften and work better) and she has certainly not deadened to the curb, and to be honest, I'd be horrified if she were!

It'll be interesting to see what Heather has to say on the topic though.

bye!

[Kerry's Partner]

Oh well in for a penny in for a pound. The change in his outline when you change pace might just be that your hands aren't still enough yet using the double reins!! I'd try putting the bit back where it was (just because in Kerry's mouth it's height is acceptable to onlookers but she's actually better and CAN have it lower rather than higher because of her shape but that's because I've had expert advice that my onlookers don't understand so I compromised to save any more hassle).

It's also really important to remember that once we think the horse has settled in the new bit - we may also have to settle/adjust our style during pace changes.

[ros]

Sarah - good! I suspect that Heather will probably say you're absolutely right :) I guess a horse will deaden itself to any bit that is used harshly - or to anything ill-fitting, unfair or misused, come to that. It's nice to hear that Tango has been ridden for some time in a Pelham and is still light and responsive. Mind you, having now seen you ride I wouldn't expect anything else :)

Actually, I can't remember ever hearing anyone complain about dressage horses becoming unresponsive to their double bridles?

[DITZ]

Thanks all am going to try 2 reins tomorrow to see what happens and also take the martingale off. One more thing..I am using an elastic curb at the moment but it doesnt seem to hang low enough and reach the groove and sits a good inch higher. Do they come in different sizes or something? Maybe this is also contributing to head tossing.

[Kerry's Partner]

I don't know about the height of the elastic curb. Common sense suggests I ask if you have it fastened too tightly - but that's the sense of someone who still needs (and will for some time) advice herself!!

With mine, in fact, I have it too loose I suppose - but I'm always careful re the three chains on each side lying absolutely flat anyway.

Sandra

[ros]

Yes, they do come in different sizes - just small and large, I think. The elastic ones are by nature rather stiffer than the normal metal chain types so they won't always hang down and sit so nicely in the curb groove. If your horse has a longer mouth you may find you need the larger size; a lipstrap should help keep it in position. (Useful little things, lipstraps, but a pain in the bottom when it comes to cleaning your tack because you can never remember which way round to thread them - well I can't anyway :rolleyes: )

[Kerry's Partner]

Well that's reassuring Ros because the lipstrap defeats me too - now I'm beginning to understand it's purpose!!

[DITZ]

I think i will change it back to my normal chain one which seems longer. I do have the elastic one on the loosest setting but it is still too high. I know the chain ones are not as nice but he doesnt seem to mind it. God its just so much trial and error this horse stuff isnt it? I have watched the video I took again and do you know the more I look at it the less I see! I hadnt realised there was so much to horse riding and I've been riding for 15 years. Oh bring me back the days when a ride was just for fun!!! Still its nice to learn something new at 31!

[Kerry's Partner]

If you are looking THAT carefully then you should be riding - care is different to fun sometimes isn't it?!!!!!!!!!!!

imo you are looking for a solution which will result in you BOTH having fun - and I think that's a much much better goal to have but it's longer term that's all.

[DITZ]

Absolutely and I'm loving the challenge of it I just cant believe how absorbing it can be.. I mean, it's 11pm and I'm writing horsey stuff! ..and the realisation that once I get one thing sorted then I will move onto the next obstacle in order to improve. I've ridden all sorts of horses for years but this is the first one I've owned and schooled one before and theres a lot to remember. Just makes me wonder how I could have been ignorant to all this stuff for so long or whether I've only ridden well schooled horses in the past and mines not. Oh and I wish I was born with the natural abilities that some seem to have.