Rushing Instructors!

[Gracie]

While watching the lessons at my barn last night, and while watching many others I came to a conlcusion:

Many instructors don't encourage the children to have the proper position before allow them to do things like cantering and jumping! They dont even have good balance! Last night the wind was strong and the girls horse was bucking (Little bucks!) and bolting to the homeside of the arena, I really feared the girl was going to fall off.

Not once in the lesson did they practice their postion. (Which many of them needed!) All the coach kept saying was Shorten your reins, use the whole ring!

Just thought I'd rant a little! Does anyone else find this at their stables?

[KarinUS]

I felt that way at my first barn. I was cantering and jumping within a few months, but totally out of control. It was kind of fun and scarey at the same time, but definitely not the best thing for the poor horses or the riders safety.
I am now with a MUCH more conservative trainer and she says she does lose potential clients because of her conservative approach. Students and parents seem to want fast "progress" and don't care much about the quality...

[Mehitabel]

the problem is, kids are impatient, and non-horsey parents like to see 'results' for their money. we have this problem a lot - the kids just want to go fast, and the parents have no idea why 'heels down' or position comments are important - they want their little darlings to be cantering and jumping in 10 lessons!
it is very hard to balance the lessons between proper position work and keeping the parents and kids happy so they don't vote with their feet and go somewhere where the kids are just plonked on and told to kick it.

[Gracie]

I agree!
Watching these kids nearly gives me a heart attack and their not even my kids. They have no balance, that I'm surprised that less accidents happen!:eek:

[kelsey]

Gracie - the longer I am at my new barn, and the more I compare it to previous places, I realize that the coaching standard just isn't that good (in Canada, at least). I don't know if it is the coaches' fault, or the fault of the students who want to jump 3' after six months. I do know that, at the barn where my niece learned to ride, one of the coaches had her level I coaching (just because she graduated from an equine studies program), and all her students had the worst chair seat imaginable. I actually saw her give a lesson once where half the horses cantered on the wrong lead, and she didn't notice!

At my barn, the owner/instructor puts you back on the lunge line if she doesn't like your position! If you want to rush things, then she basically won't take you on as a student. So far, I have seen her work miracles with myself, my horse, and the two other students/horses.

Apparently in Germany, you have to do quite advanced dressage before jumping at all. (Hey, if you end up riding like Ludger Beerbaum, I guess that's okay!) Also, you have to pass rider tests before being allowed to show (not sure if that applies to just recognized shows). And, you have to learn a lot about riding theory along the way.

[Wally]

I have heard it say by some of our Continental cousins that in the UK we turn out riders who are fearless over X country and showjumps but we do it with no style of finesse and are no good at dressage!

I'm a scardy cat instructor and don't let anyone canter or jump unless I am confident that they pose no threat to themsleves or others....including the horse!

[Mehitabel]

me too wally - that's why i stopped teaching the kids and stuck to adults! the children give me fear... adult beginners are much more interested in learning the basics and the theory behind what they're doing, and i personally find it easier to communicate with adults!

[Gracie]

Its great to hear that you guys really care about your students!
ITs not just that I think it "looks pretty" to have a good seat, I think its for the safety of the student and the horse to have a good seat, good legs, and good hands!

I wish more people were like you guys.. I'm hoping more instructors will read Heathers book..... She has some excellent points as well!

[floppy]

at our riding school the little kids start off being lunged with just a lunging girth with handle sand a saddle pad. They do all sorts of exercises and within the first lesson they get to trot...that continues until the kids can trot holding their both arms out at the side....at this point they are havign lessons inbetween in walk only to learn how to ''navigate'' with reins and stop and ride circles.

Then they go back to lunging with out saddle to learn to canter and as soon as they can canter wihtout holding on and without a saddle the lunging moves up to lunging with a saddle in all 3 gaits and then independently riding with reins and saddle without a lunge in walk and trot. etc.

Their first few hacks (or more in some cases) they are taken on a lead rein until the instructor is sure they can control their horse by themselves in walk and trot.

as for jumping that comes when they can canter without stirrups on the long side and circles.

but Teaching kids to ride can be fun - i did it last summer..but what i find very nerve racking is takign them out for a hack. That i cant handle the responsibility especially when i dont know the horse myself. teachign the basics though to children i find great fun. But i would because i teach iceskating to kids of the novice level and i love it!

Yup in Germany to compete you need to do your riding certifcates.

but me i havent done them..i choose the easy way - gaited horse competitions = no riding certifcates :D

I dont need a certifcate to prove to myself i can care for my horse. I dont have the money to do them as here in germany everything is ridiculousy expensive when it comes to tests and exams. And im not about to become a riding instructor. I hate tests :)

[Lancashire Lass]

Unfortunately this is extremely 'common' in alot of riding schools,..alot of livery yards and indeed alot of showrings,...infact....everywhere really.!!

It's a shame that the teaching of the little ones,..and the big ones as well...comes down to just sitting on a horse's back and seeing how fast you can go, or how high you can jump etc,...without falling off....bugger the style and the finesse and the basic knowledge behind what you SHOULD be doing...which is listening to your horse and making an effort to understand!!

Sorry,...rant over now.

[$@R@H]

Hmm, I'm a "child" rider but not like the ones you guys discribe. I WANT to learn to ride well and being a bit of a nervous rider(until I know I can do it) The whole "Going fast" thing really doesn't aplly to me. INstead,I get the pleasure I having lessons with these lil hollagins:rolleyes: And now because I'm a "weekend" girl I can't be rude to them anymore..:D

[mikka]

Gracie and Kelsey,

It seems that our Canadian experiences are somewhat similar. I can only speak about my children as they're the ones who I've watched move through the paces. Their first few instructors cared not at all about seat or balance before introducing canter and jumping. Oftentimes, I sat on the sidelines with my breath held, hoping that their awful postures would miraculously see them over jumps safely. (And this was from Level II instructors.)

I'm relieved to hear that others see this gap in training.

Thankfully, the kids moved on to a trainer who spent many remedial hours urging them toward balanced and independent seats. Once she felt they'd attained a certain degree of skill, however, she moved them incredibly quickly through what I can only describe as a compressed hours-in-the-saddle routine. Ride, ride, ride. Ride hard, ride fast, ride tough. And it worked. Once the basics were sound, the kids had no time to dither about. They experienced just about every eventuality known to riders: they galloped, they cantered jumps, they did walk-canter transitions... and all within a very few months. Boy, did they learn! And it did wonders for both their confidence and their seats.

As a mum, though, I put my foot down and told the children that they could not pursue jumping/x-country until they'd achieved a satisfactory level in dressage training. They're now, reluctantly, taking only flat-work lessons. And, I should add, learning a great deal.

[mikka]

Oh, forgot to say that one of the exercises the kids had to do with the latter instructor was ride in two-point for two miles without faltering. That was tough!

[Gracie]

Bravo to you for being a good parent and realizing that your children need to achieve balance before taking on things like jumping and cross country!:)

Unfournatly some parents are clueless to horses or riding and my parents don't have a clue about either! I think parents need to be more educated as well, a good barn should educate the parents telling them the dangers of rushing... but sadly barns care more about income than safety!



I guess the horse world is a tough world to win in:rolleyes:

[slh]

Hmm!

Seems to be the same thing going on at the school where I have been taking lessons....all the instructors seem obsessed with cantering...especially all of us cantering at the same time in open order!!!!! I just don't understand it......after weeks of cantering ect..one of the instructors finally got us doing turns on the forehand...and that was it!!!! Back to cantering wildly again!!!!!

slh

[bexj]

When I started riding again last year after a v long break, my partner also started taken lessons. He had never really ridden before, but because we were in a shared private lesson, our instructor was keen to get him going as soon as possible. She assessed his ability - he has natural balance, rythym and a huge desire to learn, and within 2 months he was jumping small cross poles. Never did he feel rushed or uncomfortable. Now 12 months later, he has experienced horses doing all sorts of things both in the school and outside, and he is a better rider for it. His position may not be "classical" but he can sit and control a horse perfectly adequately.

It surely depends on the individuals aptitude to learn, and what they want to do eventually. Of course I would advocate putting any person in a dangerous situation, but surely there is no "right" speed at which to learn.

[eml]

Not all parents want to rush their kids. I used to worry when I lost a rider to another school because I wouldn't let them canter or jump until they had a secure independant seat but it has given our school a good repution and lots of people will now stay on our waiting list for a place for their child because they want them taught safely and properly. However some people can often progress at a phenominal rate if they have balance and rythm to start with. I had one 12 year old beginner who naturally sat well and picked up rising trot on the first stride so its all about assessing what you see in front of you

[Esther.D]

I always liked the go fast thing as a child, but I got put off jumping after too many Pony Club instructors (not all of them I must add - there were some really great ones) physically dragging me and pony (neither of us really wanted to jump) over jumps I was nervous of. There was no such thing as being too nervous, there was a lot of 'stiff upper lip' Britishness - if you said you didn't want to do it some of them would say 'nonsense of course you do!'and drag you over instead. Combined with my least favourite term 'Show him who is boss!' considering Storm was a 13.3hh cob and I was a small 7yr old we usually operated a very successful democracy instead;) ! There is nothing more unnerving than having someone leading a reluctant pony in a jerky manner so that it suddenly cat leaps over the jump and you have no control over it....scary:(

[mikka]

Thanks, Gracie, it means a lot to me to know that someone else thinks I'm doing right by my kids. You've supported me in other child-related decisions and your opinion is very, very much appreciated.

[$@R@H]

Hmm, well alfter riding for about 8 months I can I'm aloud to jump and Canter. I learnt to canter on my 7th lesson with out a lunge rope. All though..I never did feel rushed or un-safe ...And I'm doing alot better than alot of those rushing kids are who have been riding for nearly twice as much time as me.

[Nerys]

I don't think i could have taken riding for very long with coaches like that. Just gives me the wilis thinking about it. Thumbs up to those who take it slow. It took months before i could really ride the canter, and i've only started jumping regularly after three years.

[JennyTullis]

I agree that rushing is a bad idea, but I think that lessons should be tailored to individual ability/ comfort level. For example, I had my fourth lesson last week and I cantered and it went really well. It was a GREAT feeling and I felt very relaxed and steady (although I'm sure my position wasn't great- still learning!) Of course, we spend most of the lesson working on position (while walking/ trotting) and working on controlling the horse (doing a bunch of manuevers at a walk/trot). My instructor is great and really seems to know when we're ready to try something new. We moved on to the canter only after working most of the lesson on sitting the trot without stirrups. I have always been a little puzzled about why people are hesitant about the canter- is it that the horse can get out of control or that it's fast? For me, the canter feels more comfortable than the trot. Still, we only canter for a few minutes and then head right back to working on the sitting/rising trot. My instructor says she wants us to pick up the canter little by little. Does this make sense or do you guys think she is rushing us? I know that she has no plans for us to move beyond flatwork for months and months. :)

[Nerys]

Hey thats great! If you feel comfortable and your balence is good then enjoy. I think the problem is more when you're pushed to do things way before you're comfortable and/or able.

The issue for me with the canter was a pre-riding lessons accident which involved a runaway. I would think for other people that maybe the almost twisting action may throw off their balence. Then there's speed. Or the horse itself. And so on...

[Crazy horse2601]

I was quickly rushed through the beginner stages, not learning much about balance and my seat! I felt quite unconfortable but I didn't say anything because I thought I was just being stupid! :( I'm now with another instructor and she started me jumping. Both of us realised that I needed some balance work and for weeks we worked really hard on my seat. I am so much better for it and my jumping is coming on literally in leaps and bounds!! Both instructors were at the same stable but they had totally different approaches. One listened and one didn't.
I was fourteen when I started and i had no parent pressure or anything. But i've seen young kids pushed into riding by their parents and then when they don't progress the instructors get the stick. I can see why some instructors try to rush things but i don't agree with it at all.

[JennyTullis]

I agree completely with you. What I found totally bizarre was that my first instructor had me jumping before I learned to canter! Even if they were just small jumps, the horse would trot, jump and usually canter anyway. Half the time, I ended up on the horse's rump. Thank God I was riding a real sweetie who seemed to know to take it easy. As soon as my mom (not at all "horsey") found out what was going on, I got a new instructor with whom I think I spent another 6 months just working on walking and trotting (a MUCH better approach for a novice 10 year old). I just don't understand why some instructors do this...

[intouch]

I've been following this thread and I just HAD to come in here - I've had a stand-up argument with "management" in our RS because the other instructor tends to have more clients than I do, and the bottom line here is income.
The other (chief) instructor freely admits that she is an entertainer, that she is more interested in keeping the clients happy than in teaching them to ride. Having said that, she's by no means a bad teacher. I'm much more of a stickler for position and balance and I won't take clients - specially kids - faster than I think they are ready for.
I have a dozen PC kids who are my pride and joy, all lovely kids and on their way to being horse people. I had a 6 year old kid today, she's been coming for 4 months, from being a terrified heap she was riding a 13.3 pony on her own. Class.
But although I wouldn't be rude, I don't massage egos, so do sometimes loose clients that think they are better than they are.
Anyway - "management" asked me to modify my methods and entertain more - I'm afraid I said that was the only way I knew how to teach, if they wanted an entertainer they would have to find someone else. When I was training, we were taught to say we wanted to become teachers to make a better life for horses. I stand by that. Better riders make a better life for horses and that's my reward. Rant over.

[Dizzy]

Well said that woman!!! I hope they have the good sense to listen to you.

Lesley

[Sparkle]

I jumped before I cantered and I cantered on about my 5th lesson. But I picked up posting on my first lesson pretty much (I had learned to post when I was a lot younger but not ridden for years) and never felt unbalanced or out of control. I was taught basic position from the start, and I never felt rushed.

[Gracie]

AMEN!!!!
( to all your comments!) Good for you!

[mikka]

Intouch, you should be applauded LOUDLY for your insistence upon high quality instruction.

The folk who tell you - or even imply - that you've to entertain more than teach are not just cheesy, but dangerous. If you're involved with a school that places emphasis upon numbers of clients rather than quality of instruction, surely it's time to move on.

I know it's easier said than done, but I also know your many, many skills would be SO appreciated elsewhere.

[nat]

[intouch]

Am I right in saying that this is a young lady who can sit a buck?
Bella? Hi there!