Standing Martingale

[KateWooten]

When is it a good idea to jump in a standing martingale ?

[xloopylozzax]

i was under the impression it wasnt ever a good time...

[MrKia+Me]

I personally dont see the harm in jumping in a standing.

As long as its not tying the horses head into its chest.

Nikki xxxx:)

[Wally]

Never.

[vimto92]

I personally don't agree with it.

[horseygal90]

I wouldn't, it completly stifles a good bascule.

[RachelEvent]

It is absolutely fine, in my opinion, to jump in a standing martingale so long as it is properly adjusted. The horse does not need to fling it's head up or out to jump correctly, and a standing martingale provides plenty of leeway for the horse to move his head down and forwards to bascule correctly.

In America they are a fairly standard piece of kit in the hunter/jumper rings, and in this country they are still commonly seen in the hunting field, or on BSJA jumpers.

I think they are a much maligned bit of kit - they are often really suitable for horses with very light or over-sensitive mouths as they only act upon the nose and not upon the bit in the way a running martingale will.

[RachelEvent]

Here's a picture of me jumping my mare in a standing.. as you can see, no restriction - the martingale is adjusted fairly loose here, as mare was going through a habit of just totally inverting her outline when I put too much pressure on.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/Rrrrachel/Tweseldown%20Aug%2008/IMG_4296.jpg

Is this horse struggling and restricted? No I don't think so!!

http://www.imh.org/images/Shawn%20McMillen%20Photography%206(small).jpg

[posie]

^^^ i must agree with the above - i was under the impression that it was a no-no - and this certainly seems to be the general consensus in the UK - but not many people could give a good solid reason why not when i asked :rolleyes:
then i moved to the US and did a hunt season over there and it completely changed my mind = all the hunters wore standing martingales that were correctly fitted for what they did - i never saw any horse restricted in jumping etc. i'll try to dig out some pics of me competing in hunter trials over there with standing's on....

[FayeObs]

I think it depends on the horse?? and how it carries itself whilst jumping?

[Lauran]

I am American / grew up in America and it was common practice to jump in a standing martingale. I was taught how to adjust them properly and never had any problem with them. I'm not saying everyone used / uses them correctly, but I think they have their place and are fine to jump in as long as they're of proper length.

[jembo15]

My team chaser was in a standing martingale when he came to me, I quickly removed it but then suffered 2 broken noses because of it. He did not need the martingale he had an underlying back issue which caused him to fling his head in the air after jumping. Once this was sorted he did not do it again. I personally do not like them, and if they are used then in experienced hands only, and know when to adjust or is it covering up a different problem?

[wildponies]

Never!

You might get away with it over piddly little jumps but is it worth the risk?

The horse needs complete freedom of the head and neck to bascule over a fence, especially if things get tricky on the approach. Why risk jarring them with an inflexible piece of leather and put them off jumping.

Try to work out why you think your horse needs a standing martingale and resolve the problem.

There are some elasticated standing martingales on the market which (at a push) could be used for small jumping so long as correctly fitted.

[emmathechief]

I'm not keen on the idea!!
IMO I thought the idea of a standing martingale is to restrict the horses head from getting too high. Surely any restriction of the head carriage while jumping in a definite no no:confused:

Regardless to right or wrong, I would not use one!

[EquineCompare]

I would say never :eek:
I have seen people jump in competitions with standing martingales and its awful to watch. You can clearly see the horse is fighting to clear the jumps because they can't lift their head enough to obtain a natural outline. I personally think a running martingale is better for jumping. :)

[ArcticShowjumpa]

i would also personally say never even though i've seen plenty of people doing it :/

[blues mum]

I would say never.
And add that just because something is standard practice does not make right.

[BIrish]

When is it right to jump a horse in a standing martingale ? When said horse needs one and you don't want a broken nose.

What Rachel said.. properly adjusted they are fine and don't interfere with a bascule (where did that idea come from?? ). It's a total myth that you couldn't/shouldn't jump in one.

[puzzles]

I think that standing martingales are seen as being more restrictive than running martingales, and I admit that I am definitely not a fan of them. However at least theydon't work on the bars of the horse's mouth, as running martingales do, and as Rachel said they do not necessarily restrict the horse's jump. I just don't lie how they can be misused as I like a horse to have absolute freedom of his head when jumping.

x

[joey_olop]

At some local shows around here you often get some of the PC kids jumping there ponies with there poor heads tied to there chest with a standing martingale, because of that I dont like them for jumping.
They probably can be used loosely for jumping but couldnt see the point in having it there if its done up so loose that it doesnt come into effect??

[MrKia+Me]

I understand the use of a standing martingale as stopping the horse from reaching back and braining you with their head:confused:

Am I wrong in that respect??? Basculing, the horse shouldnt have its head so high as to brain the rider no matter how high the jump is.

As I said before I hate people using it to tie a horses head to their chests because they want the horse to look good but its used properly for a reason, to stop a horse having its head so far back as to brain you. Shouldnt interfere with correct basculing.

Nikki xxxx:)

[wildponies]

Am I wrong in that respect??? Basculing, the horse shouldnt have its head so high as to brain the rider no matter how high the jump is.

As I said before I hate people using it to tie a horses head to their chests because they want the horse to look good but its used properly for a reason, to stop a horse having its head so far back as to brain you. Shouldnt interfere with correct basculing.

Nikki xxxx:)

A bascle is the 'round' shape made by a horse when jumping.

Of course a standing martingale will prevent a fully rounded shape when jumping. Upon jumping the horse will use its neck to achieve this 'bascule'. A standing martingale is more often than not a completely restrictive and inflexible piece of leather. Just as a standing martingale will not let the head go up, it will also not allow the neck down and forward. This 'position' of the head would make up the front half of a 'bascule'. Watch a horse jumping, watch it's head and neck on landing.. you should be able to see how a standing martingale would jar the neck on landing and prevent it making the best possible shape over a fence.

[MrKia+Me]

A bascle is the 'round' shape made by a horse when jumping.

Of course a standing martingale will prevent a fully rounded shape when jumping. Upon jumping the horse will use its neck to achieve this 'bascule'. A standing martingale is more often than not a completely restrictive and inflexible piece of leather. Just as a standing martingale will not let the head go up, it will also not allow the neck down and forward. This 'position' of the head would make up the front half of a 'bascule'. Watch a horse jumping, watch it's head and neck on landing.. you should be able to see how a standing martingale would jar the neck on landing and prevent it making the best possible shape over a fence.

I have to say having loaned a horse that was a proper basculing jumper I never saw his head having to be as high and far back so as to smack me in the face to achieve his lovely shape;)

I know what basculing i thanks WP seen it and ridden it often enough:)

As I and others have said a PROPERLY fitted standing martingale doesnt affect a horses ability to jump properly. Just stops the rider getting a broken nose;)

Nikki xxxx:)

[wildponies]

I have to say having loaned a horse that was a proper basculing jumper I never saw his head having to be as high and far back so as to smack me in the face to achieve his lovely shape;)

I know what basculing i thanks WP seen it and ridden it often enough:)

As I and others have said a PROPERLY fitted standing martingale doesnt affect a horses ability to jump properly. Just stops the rider getting a broken nose;)

Nikki xxxx:)

I have to say I don't think I said a bascule involved a head being high and far back? :confused:

How can you expect a horse to stretch down (and having ridden some pretty decent sized fences I find it imperative that a horse be able to let his head and neck stretch down upon landing) if his head is essentially 'strapped in'?

Often landing after a large fence I find I have to gather up my reins as upon landing they have been drawn through my fingers. I can't imagine how uncomfortable it'd be if I were to cling onto those reins rigidly and not allow them to move upon landing for the horse. Surely this gives the same effect as a standing martingale with respect of no flexibility or 'give' regardless of whether or not the pressure is exerted on the nose or the mouth.

[MrKia+Me]

Maybe I am just not saying this plain enough so i will try again.:)

A properly fitted standing martingale has no affect on the horses ability to stretch down or essentaily out:)

If it is too tight then it is not properly fitted:)

It is essentialy the same as my harbridge aid that i lung Kia in. It allows him to stretch down and out (he runs his nose along the grass sometimes lol) but not put his head up too high:)

Hope that explains what i am trying to say better:) i agree with them and that is why:)

Nikki xxx

[wildponies]

Maybe I am just not saying this plain enough so i will try again.:)

A properly fitted standing martingale has no affect on the horses ability to stretch down or essentaily out:)

If it is too tight then it is not properly fitted:)

It is essentialy the same as my harbridge aid that i lung Kia in. It allows him to stretch down and out (he runs his nose along the grass sometimes lol) but not put his head up too high:)

Hope that explains what i am trying to say better:) i agree with them and that is why:)

Nikki xxx


I also agree they have their place and have ridden a horse in a standing martingale to prevent black eyes. Only ridden in one on the flat.

However, as much as they restrict the head up, they also restrict the head down. By their very nature they restrict movement in all directions, be it up, down or forwards :)

[Shiny Boy]

I was always told the sole reason never to jump in a standing martingale, was that if the horse stumbles or falters on landing, especially after a large fence, the standing martingale will prevent the horse from stretching his head right out to balence himself and prevent a stumble becoming a fall.

Even the most seasoned jumpers can stumble on landing if the ground is uneven.

I was always of the understanding that the above was the whole reason you had running martingales for jumping.

[thoroughlybred1]

I was always told the sole reason never to jump in a standing martingale, was that if the horse stumbles or falters on landing, especially after a large fence, the standing martingale will prevent the horse from stretching his head right out to balence himself and prevent a stumble becoming a fall.

Even the most seasoned jumpers can stumble on landing if the ground is uneven.

I was always of the understanding that the above was the whole reason you had running martingales for jumping.

This is the ONLY reason I wont use one on my son's madcap pony - even with an elastic insert. I would LOVE to use one on her, even for just one session to try and keep her ears out of his eyes, but it's not worth the above risk to me, IMO

[RachelEvent]

Shiny Boy - yes that is a valid reason for choosing not to use a standing martingale - and why I wouldn't want to hunt with one on unless the horse NEEDED it. However, a running martingale can be a very restricting bit of kit too when it is actually adjusted short enough to have any action (many aren't). I also wouldn't use a standing martingale on a horse who had a tendency to rear and go over as it is something that may exacerbate the problem. But I also wouldn't use a running martingale on that kind of horse!

I maintain the fact that I have NEVER seen a standing martingale restrict the bascule of a horse - as the horse bascules correctly the nose comes down and out and therefore closer to the chest, thereby not fully extending the martingale strap. As the horse throws his head up and out incorrectly the head is coming further away from the martingale strap therefore causing it to be taut. For the standing martingale (correctly fitted) to restrict a bascule, the horse would have to be doing something pretty ridiculous with it's head.

The following is an extract from Elwyn Hartley Edwards text on Bitting...

"The usual argument against the standing martingale is that it restricts the extension of the neck when jumping: however, this contention is entirely fallacious. When jumping, the horses head and neck are stretched forwards and downwards (so long as the hands are following the mouth and permitting that extension). They are not thrown upwards, and if they are, then some pretty extensive re-schooling is required and perhaps an extended course of riding lessons as well.

There is no interference with extension as long as the martingale is fitted at the recommended length - although clearly that would not be the case if it were too tightly adjusted."

My personal take on them is that have a really valid place in the tack room - they are quite a considerate bit of kit, and very useful on horses that have very sensitive mouths and cannot cope with the action of a running martingale.