How heavy is a IFOR WILLIAMS trailer?

[martinez]

Does any body know how heavy an Ifor Williams trailer is, the one at my yard can carry two horses. hoping to tow it ?

[igloo]

Depends on the model:

http://www.iwt.co.uk/products/horse.htm

[ameliet1971]

I've got an Ifor Williams 505 Classic at it's unladen weight is 675kg. I can legally tow my 16.2hh TB with our Skoda Roomster 1.9TDI that has a legal towing capacity of 1,200kg.:)

[Sophini]

Ummm, the legal towing weight of a vehicle has nothing to do with the actual weight of the trailer+horse or the unladen weight, it is to do with the MGW/plated weight so you actually can't legally tow with your Skoda.....

It may sound daft but regardless of the fact you never tow that actual weight you will be classed as uninsured if you do tow :(

[martinez]

Ummm, the legal towing weight of a vehicle has nothing to do with the actual weight of the trailer+horse or the unladen weight, it is to do with the MGW/plated weight so you actually can't legally tow with your Skoda.....

It may sound daft but regardless of the fact you never tow that actual weight you will be classed as uninsured if you do tow :(

-----------------------------------------------------
Ok thanks, new to towing. so what and how do you find the MGW/plated weight?

[Sophini]

go to page 14 on this link http://www.iwt.co.uk/brochures/nhb.pdf which lists the maximum gross weight of the brand new Ifor williams

Or this website lists the slightly older versions http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB505.htm

So if the trailer your looking at is an Ifor willams 505 (one of the most common) it's MGW is 2340kgs. You then need to find how much your car/4x4 can tow which you can usually get from the manufacturers website...you wouldn't be able to use a Land Rover Freelander for example :( as it can only legally tow up to 2000kg but you can tow with a Jeep Cherokee which can tow up to 2800kg :D Guess what i just bought :D:D

[ameliet1971]

Ummm, the legal towing weight of a vehicle has nothing to do with the actual weight of the trailer+horse or the unladen weight, it is to do with the MGW/plated weight so you actually can't legally tow with your Skoda.....

It may sound daft but regardless of the fact you never tow that actual weight you will be classed as uninsured if you do tow :(

We actually contacted trading standards with all the information they required before purchasing the Ifor Williams trailer.

They assured us we CAN legally tow the Classic with our TB on board, and that's good enough for me.;)

[MrKia+Me]

If the ifor is a 505 model then the max weight that can travel is 2340kgs as plated on the A frame at the front of the trailer (well thats what mines is and mines is a 505 hunter)

You can have the trailer replaited if you wish.

Nikki xxxx:D

[wonkeywoody]

They assured us we CAN legally tow the Classic with our TB on board, and that's good enough for me. __________________

I think you should check with your insurance company. As correctly said already, the Freelander is not legal, and it is a much bigger, heavier vehicle than the Roomster!

[Niv2]

I think you will find it depends on whether you driving licence is just B or B+E. If you are B And this will be anyone who has passed their test since 1997, then there are strict limitations on what you can tow and then MAM comes into play. If you passed your test prior to 1997 or have taken a supplementary test to get the "E" on your licence, then you do not need to have your trailer "plated" etc and the regs are a little less rigorous.

It is very difficult to sort out the regs as they have not been presented in an easy to understand way, but this is my understanding.

Thus ameliet1971 may be ok with her skoda but i fear that the weight of the IW 505 is nearer 900kgs so with a 16.2hh TB in it weighing approx 500 - 550 kgs, she will be over the towing limit for that car.

[wonkeywoody]

And this will be anyone who has passed their test since 1997, then there are strict limitations on what you can tow and then MAM comes into play

As this is a safety regulation then surely it doesnt matter when you passed your driving test, (and got trailer test as necessary) it is there because the towing vehicle has not only to be capable of actually pulling and stopping the towed weight but also holding the road if a trailer goes snaking etc behind you?

[Nookster]

My understanding is passed after 97 - need tow test and can't tow anything over 3.5 tonne which doesn't cover horse trailers unless replated.

As standard for all towers no matter when you passed the rule of car must be able to tow the MAM of the trailer applys. So discovery can tow 3500kg and trailer MAM 2600kg this combination would be legal. A vehicle with only tow capacity of 2000kg towing a trailer of 2600kg would not be legal.


ameliet1971 - would look again at your combination as afraid is not legal - not the unladen weight that needs considered in the calculation but the MAM whether carrying no horses, one or two horses. The vehicle has to be more or equal to the MAM of the trailer.
Not sure trading standards info is correct - best contacting DVLA, Police and your insurance company for valid information - sadly these are the ones that will be prosecuting you if anything happened

[Niv2]

My understanding is passed after 97 - need tow test and can't tow anything over 3.5 tonne which doesn't cover horse trailers unless replated.

As standard for all towers no matter when you passed the rule of car must be able to tow the MAM of the trailer applys. So discovery can tow 3500kg and trailer MAM 2600kg this combination would be legal. A vehicle with only tow capacity of 2000kg towing a trailer of 2600kg would not be legal.

No. MAM only applies to those who passed test after 1997. From 1 January 1997, new category B (generally held as 'normal' car entitlement) vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kg Maximum Authorised Mass allowing a combined weight of up to 4.25 tonnes MAM OR a trailer (for example a tourer) over 750kg MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM. This would mean that many drivers who possess only a category B on their licence would be able to tow a trailer provided it was not heavier than their car, and that car and caravan combined, does not weigh more than 3.5 tonnes.

This does not apply to those who passed it before this time or who have taken supplementary test where the MAM of the trailer can exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle providing that the total weight being towed does not exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.... the way the regulations are explained and set out are not clear or easy to understand.

[Nookster]

Haven't you just said what i said?

It basic terms the max capacity of the trailer has to be equal to or less then the max of the tow vehicle if your towing

[BlueWicked]

ameliet1971, you are definately NOT legal. See my sticky thread on towing laws.

The DVLA will only advise about B+ E requirments.... (they are after all, just the licensing body ;:)

You need to speak to VOSA regarding the legalities of the weight ratios of your tow vehicle & trailer. It is VOSA who may pull you in and stop you at a checkpoint.

[Niv2]

Haven't you just said what i said?

It basic terms the max capacity of the trailer has to be equal to or less then the max of the tow vehicle if your towing

I heard you and you are correct in what you say up to a point.....this applies if you only have a Cat B licence (ie a licence gained after 1 Jan 1997. If you only have a cat B licence then the following applies:- Motor vehicles with a MAM not exceeding 3500kg having not more than eight passenger seats with a trailer up to 750kg. Combinations of towing vehicles in category B and a trailer, where the MAM of the combination does not exceed 3500kg and the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle.

However, if you have a Cat B + E licence ie passed your test before 1 Jan 1997 or have taken a supplementary test to gain Cat E, then you are permitted to drive any combination of car trailer (providing that the gross weight towed does not exceed the towing capacity of the vehicle) as follows:- Combinations of vehicles consisting of a vehicle in category B and a trailer, where the combination does not come within category B.

This can all be found on http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547

[Nookster]

It is VOSA who may pull you in and stop you at a checkpoint.

I never used to believe that VOSA did this you know – never saw them in 11 years on the road so to say. UNTIL the other month on the A71 into Edinburgh – they had set up a checking point in a lay-by and had numerous vehicles stopped to check including a horse trailer combination! Was rather surprised but confirmed what I didn’t think was true does happen. Was having a good rubber necking session :D

I heard you and you are correct in what you say up to a point.....
Read your post and agree with what your saying but do feel we are just re iterating each other in different forms :D

[Niv2]

Nookster.....point well made regarding our discussions!....the DVLA have made it an overly complicated system to understand....it would have been far better to have restricted drivers who passed their test after 1 Jan 1997 to tow single axle unbraked trailers only and to insist on a further test if they wanted to tow a braked trailer instead of having all the complicated calculations regarding MAM

There I have said my bit and now I will be quiet on this subject!

Regards!

[ameliet1971]

I would just like to thank you all for drawing my attention to the legal weight limits when pulling a trailer.

When I contacted Trading Standards and they confirmed my car was legally capable of towing the Ifor Williams Classic, I had no reason to doubt them untill now!!!!

Thanks to their unreliable information, I've been putting my both my own and my horse's welfare at risk each time I've travelled him in it, and that really annoys me.:mad:

It now looks like putting my Roomster in part exchange for a vehicle that IS capable of pulling my IW.

Many, many thanks to you all once again, because without your advice I would have been none the wiser untill I either had an accident or the police pulled me over!!!!

[BlueWicked]

I never used to believe that VOSA did this you know – never saw them in 11 years on the road so to say. UNTIL the other month on the A71 into Edinburgh – they had set up a checking point in a lay-by and had numerous vehicles stopped to check including a horse trailer combination! Was rather surprised but confirmed what I didn’t think was true does happen. Was having a good rubber necking session :D
D

lol, (jumps up & down going. "SEEEeeeee!" ) ha ha, they are ALWAYS on the A90:rolleyes:

ameliet1971; - so glad to hear someone who finally listens , thanks for your nice words... after all, the only reason i started harping on about it (&got the sticky put up) was because i was attempting to help people having been caught out myself & ending up doing DAYS of researching to get to the truth:rolleyes: I just wanted to maybe save others going though all that bloomin hassle:cool:

[eml]

Junction18 M1 is another great favourite, they pull off into the weightbridge just off the motorway.

[ameliet1971]

I've been looking for a suitable vehicle to tow my IW trailer and really like the sound (and price):) of the Kia Sorento 2.5 CRDi XS Diesel. I think it's capable of pulling the IW but would appreciate your advice before ringing up for a test drive.

Here's the specifications link:

http://www.kia.co.uk/sorentotechnicalspecification.asp

Thanks. :)

[Sophini]

I've been looking for a suitable vehicle to tow my IW trailer and really like the sound (and price):) of the Kia Sorento 2.5 CRDi XS Diesel. I think it's capable of pulling the IW but would appreciate your advice before ringing up for a test drive.

Here's the specifications link:

http://www.kia.co.uk/sorentotechnicalspecification.asp

Thanks. :)

Yep, you'd be fine with that :) the bit you need to look at is the "trailer with brakes" in the specifications near the bottom....even the petrol will tow 28ookg, the manual diesel 3000kgs.

Really sorry to have told you about the skoda :o but happy car shopping!!

[Niv2]

I've been looking for a suitable vehicle to tow my IW trailer and really like the sound (and price):) of the Kia Sorento 2.5 CRDi XS Diesel. I think it's capable of pulling the IW but would appreciate your advice before ringing up for a test drive.

Here's the specifications link:

http://www.kia.co.uk/sorentotechnicalspecification.asp

Thanks. :)


Max. towing weights (kg):
Trailer with brakes 3,000kg Manual, 3,500kg Auto (both diesel)

towing weights depend on gearbox ....however, any of these should be capable of twoing and IW trailer with two horses assumming mas weight of trielr 1000kgs and each horse about 600kgs making 2200kgs total weight of trailer and horses. A friend of min uses the Sorento to tow with sucessfully.

[Nookster]

Thumbs up for Sorrento

[martinez]

go to page 14 on this link http://www.iwt.co.uk/brochures/nhb.pdf which lists the maximum gross weight of the brand new Ifor williams

Or this website lists the slightly older versions http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB505.htm

So if the trailer your looking at is an Ifor willams 505 (one of the most common) it's MGW is 2340kgs. You then need to find how much your car/4x4 can tow which you can usually get from the manufacturers website...you wouldn't be able to use a Land Rover Freelander for example :( as it can only legally tow up to 2000kg but you can tow with a Jeep Cherokee which can tow up to 2800kg :D Guess what i just bought :D:D

HI i have bought a jeep its is a 2.5 TD. I checked and it said it can two up to 2500kg so am i correct thinking it could tow a IFOR+16.2hh+11.1hh
Hope this is correct by the way the 11.1=230kg not sure how heavy the 16.2 is though and i think the trailer is the 505

[Sophini]

Yep it can legally tow the Ifor as the trailer MGW is less than the Jeep....you could happily put two 16.2hh in the Ifor and still tow it with the Jeep without being overweight :D:D

[9tails]

HI i have bought a jeep its is a 2.5 TD. I checked and it said it can two up to 2500kg so am i correct thinking it could tow a IFOR+16.2hh+11.1hh
Hope this is correct by the way the 11.1=230kg not sure how heavy the 16.2 is though and i think the trailer is the 505

It doesn't matter how heavy your horses are, the vehicle needs to be able to tow the MAM! It's been said *thousands* of times, it doesn't matter what you're putting in the trailer but the MAM. So you'd still be illegal if your trailer was filled with cotton wool if your vehicle isn't able to tow the MAM of the trailer.

[martinez]

go to page 14 on this link http://www.iwt.co.uk/brochures/nhb.pdf which lists the maximum gross weight of the brand new Ifor williams

Or this website lists the slightly older versions http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB505.htm

So if the trailer your looking at is an Ifor willams 505 (one of the most common) it's MGW is 2340kgs. You then need to find how much your car/4x4 can tow which you can usually get from the manufacturers website...you wouldn't be able to use a Land Rover Freelander for example :( as it can only legally tow up to 2000kg but you can tow with a Jeep Cherokee which can tow up to 2800kg :D Guess what i just bought :D:D

At least it is not money wasted on my jeeps, just as i have fallen in love for it !

[Sophini]

Love my jeep to....especially the heated seats after being at the yard in the snow :)

[martinez]

looked in jeep manual says 2500 and i looked on the the trrailer and it said max gross weight 2600 what can i do ?
(simpliest and cheapest) Thanks

[wonkeywoody]

looked in jeep manual says 2500 and i looked on the the trrailer and it said max gross weight 2600 what can i do ?
(simpliest and cheapest) Thanks

Get current trailer downrated (assume you will need to contact Ifor for that - but someone else might know)
or change your trailer for the older model with a MAM of 2340kgs

[Nookster]

Get current trailer downrated (assume you will need to contact Ifor for that - but someone else might know)
or change your trailer for the older model with a MAM of 2340kgs

Ditto advice given - Bluewicked has done the downrating so could help with any querys

[sarahc216]

Hi

I have just been reading your thread which has kinda helped me, I have a Ifor williams Hunter trailer, which i think is the 505 (i'm at work at the mo) I have a grand jeep cherokee 1996 and i am looking on websites and some are saying u do not need category e when towing certain trailers, now does this apply to me? I will double check when i get home on all the details but i am hoping i will be able to tow without doing the test?

I passed category b in 2002

[Lacetti]

Been reading this thread with great interest..... now my friend at the yard passed her test AFTER 1997, but she assures me that she can legally tow anything upto 3500kgs - Can she??

Also,

She has just purchased a Nissan X-Trail - can she legally tow her horse (17.2hh MW hunter type) and an IFOR Wiliams HB510 - I'm doubtful....:confused:

[Niv2]

Hi

I have just been reading your thread which has kinda helped me, I have a Ifor williams Hunter trailer, which i think is the 505 (i'm at work at the mo) I have a grand jeep cherokee 1996 and i am looking on websites and some are saying u do not need category e when towing certain trailers, now does this apply to me? I will double check when i get home on all the details but i am hoping i will be able to tow without doing the test?

I passed category b in 2002

I am afraid you will need to pass the test to get Category E with that vehicle and that trailer seeing you passed your test after 1997.

It is possible to tow a lightweight (Cheval Liberte) horse trailer with a Estate car or lightweight 4X4 on your current licence but you have to be very careful that you stay within the wording of the law.

[Nookster]

In answer to the Jeep and ifor 505 query. You would need to sit you B+E. Your not legal at present to tow without it as the combined weight of vehicle and trailer is over 3.5tonne

In answer to the x trail and ifor 510 – again the MAM combination is over 3.5 tonne so they would need their B+E to make them legal to tow. At present they are towing without correct licence which brings penalties same as driving without a licence. Also invalidates vehicle and horse insurance.

Another thing to consider for person towing with x trail is that currently MAM of 510 (2700kg) is more then the MAX of the x trail, which is also illegal. They would need to look at getting the trailer replated to be able to tow it.

[Niv2]

In answer to the Jeep and ifor 505 query. You would need to sit you B+E. Your not legal at present to tow without it as the combined weight of vehicle and trailer is over 3.5tonne

In answer to the x trail and ifor 510 – again the MAM combination is over 3.5 tonne so they would need their B+E to make them legal to tow. At present they are towing without correct licence which brings penalties same as driving without a licence. Also invalidates vehicle and horse insurance.

Correct.....Def need to pass trailer test to get Cat E on licence with this combo. Horse & trailer alone are going to be nearing 1,700kgs quite apart from anything else so once the MAM of the vehicle is taken into account they will be way over the limit quite apart from the fact that the trailer is unlikely to have been replaced to stay within the law.

[Sticky's GF]

No. MAM only applies to those who passed test after 1997. From 1 January 1997, new category B (generally held as 'normal' car entitlement) vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kg Maximum Authorised Mass allowing a combined weight of up to 4.25 tonnes MAM OR a trailer (for example a tourer) over 750kg MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM. This would mean that many drivers who possess only a category B on their licence would be able to tow a trailer provided it was not heavier than their car, and that car and caravan combined, does not weigh more than 3.5 tonnes.

This does not apply to those who passed it before this time or who have taken supplementary test where the MAM of the trailer can exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle providing that the total weight being towed does not exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.... the way the regulations are explained and set out are not clear or easy to understand.


Hold on a minute.....when this topic came up previously (has been well documented!!!) I was told on NR that I was illegally towing my Ifor 510 with my Cherokee Sport. Trailer has high capacity, car does not, but I only ever take 1 x horse so that I am within the car's tow capacity and trailer weighs less than the car. I was informed that it would even be illegal to tow the trailer empty unless I got the capacity of the trailer reduced. I passed my test BEFORE the law changed. Am I legal or not?!!!!!

[Lisa&Lady]

go to page 14 on this link http://www.iwt.co.uk/brochures/nhb.pdf which lists the maximum gross weight of the brand new Ifor williams

Or this website lists the slightly older versions http://www.horsetrailersales.co.uk/NewIforHB505.htm

So if the trailer your looking at is an Ifor willams 505 (one of the most common) it's MGW is 2340kgs. You then need to find how much your car/4x4 can tow which you can usually get from the manufacturers website...you wouldn't be able to use a Land Rover Freelander for example :( as it can only legally tow up to 2000kg but you can tow with a Jeep Cherokee which can tow up to 2800kg :D Guess what i just bought :D:D

Before I bought my new car, I spoke to somebody at the transport police about the towing weights.

Its the transport police that pull you up and nick you for towing illegally.

Everything that is said above is completely true, so I would go by this.

[Nookster]

Hold on a minute.....when this topic came up previously (has been well documented!!!) I was told on NR that I was illegally towing my Ifor 510 with my Cherokee Sport. Trailer has high capacity, car does not, but I only ever take 1 x horse so that I am within the car's tow capacity and trailer weighs less than the car. I was informed that it would even be illegal to tow the trailer empty unless I got the capacity of the trailer reduced. I passed my test BEFORE the law changed. Am I legal or not?!!!!!


If you passed you test before 97 you can legally tow over 3.5 tonne which those that haven’t are restricted too until they do their B+E

There another ruling to meet which is around the trailers MAM and the vehicles MAX tow capacity. An ifor 510 is 2700kgs. Not sure what you jeep MAX is but its this weight that needs to be equal or greater than the 2700kg of your ifor. So in other words the vehicle towing is more than capable of dealing with what its towing sadly this is regardless of how much you actually have on.

So yup sadly is you car weighs less but you trailer says its MAM is 2700kg is VOSA check you will be fined. It sadly does not take into account if we only carry one horse or two or even none. If I were to drive along with an empty trailer and VOSA checked and my trailer was more then my car by reading the plates alone I will be fined.

Why people are getting there trailers replated as a good alternative

[Nookster]

Before I bought my new car, I spoke to somebody at the transport police about the towing weights.

Its the transport police that pull you up and nick you for towing illegally.

Everything that is said above is completely true, so I would go by this.


VOSA also do road checks – i had heard of them but never witnessed them until recently. They had pulled in a horse trailer on the way into Edinburgh and were checking it out. VOSA also fine

[Niv2]

So why does it say this on DFT website (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers)?

Requirements regarding trailers used on the road are given in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended. The following is a summary of the main requirements.

Weight
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.

For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.


It is not a requirement to display a notice of the unladen weight of the trailer or the towing vehicle, unless the towing vehicle is either a motor tractor or a locomotive, as defined in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

It goes on to say that this is dependant on the type of licence you hold.

[Sticky's GF]

Weight
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.

.[/I]

I'm still confused (it doesn't take much)....I've read the web page the above was taken from and can't see anywhere that I am doing anything illegal.

My car weighs 1.9 tons and its braked tow capacity is 2.25 tons.
My trailer weighs 1.05 tons and its max is 2.7tons.
I only ever tow 1 x nag = max combined trailer weight of 1.7 tons, which is LESS than my car weighs and LESS than it is supposedly able to tow. I cannot get my head around why or how this could be illegal.

[Sunshine-x]

we have a Honda CRV and tow and ifor williams box (think its the 505 but not 100% sure) are we legal? the ponies weigh roughly 400 kilos each. we also tow and old sinclair trailer as well.
.
.
could someone please tell me if this is legal?!

[9tails]

we have a Honda CRV and tow and ifor williams box (think its the 505 but not 100% sure) are we legal? the ponies weigh roughly 400 kilos each. we also tow and old sinclair trailer as well.
.
.
could someone please tell me if this is legal?!

No, your maximum towing weight is 1600kg and the Ifor Williams MAM is at least 2300kg. It doesn't matter what you put in the trailer, two mini shetlands or two 17.2 heavy hunters, it's the MAM that counts.

[Sunshine-x]

No, your maximum towing weight is 1600kg and the Ifor Williams MAM is at least 2300kg. It doesn't matter what you put in the trailer, two mini shetlands or two 17.2 heavy hunters, it's the MAM that counts.

so the ifor definately isnt legal? none of the makes at all? what about the sinclair?

[l7oopys]

A friend of mine recently bought a Freelander with intention to tow! Thionk she is gona buy an Ifor Williams 505.
Is this not suitable for towing this??
I said i didnt think it was! :confused:

[Nookster]

So why does it say this on DFT website (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers)?

Requirements regarding trailers used on the road are given in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended. The following is a summary of the main requirements.

Weight
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.

For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.


It is not a requirement to display a notice of the unladen weight of the trailer or the towing vehicle, unless the towing vehicle is either a motor tractor or a locomotive, as defined in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

It goes on to say that this is dependant on the type of licence you hold.

How do you explain this then

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151490

[ali-c]

"For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.

The maximum laden weight of a trailer which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight. Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight or the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded. It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.

It is not a requirement to display a notice of the unladen weight of the trailer or the towing vehicle, unless the towing vehicle is either a motor tractor or a locomotive, as defined in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986."

This is taken directly from the department of transport website. I'm sorry to be a stickler about this, but after doing alot of research too, I can not find any document that states your vehicle has to be able to tow the maximum permissible weight of the trailer. Only , quite sensibly that the trailer weight (trailer plus what you have in it) has to be less than your towing capacity, and the combined weight of the car and loaded trailer must not exceed the gross train weight of the vehicle. The 3500 kg combined limit refers only to newer drivers (1997 onwards).

I know the sticky states quite clearly that you need a towing capacity greater than the plated weight of the trailer but I can not find the source for that information anywhere. I am in the process of buying a new car for towing and would really like this finalised once and for all! Does anybody interpret the info from the department of transport website the same as me?

[huskyfinn]

just thought i'd also mention that you also have to take into account the weight of passengers, tack and any extras you have in the car or box when working out the towing weight etc!

[Niv2]

Ali-C.....I'm with you on this one. I have done a lot of research on this matter and I am pretty sure that, so long as you have Cat B + E on your licence, then so long as the actual gross weight of the loaded trailer (not MAM) does not exceed the authorised towing capacity of the vehicle, then you are legal. Trailers do not need to be replated etc.

I belive you are correct in your assumptions. I think that the Sticky information is misleading.

[BlueWicked]

well, it's up to you isnt it:) Speak to vosa, they are the ones who will stop you and check weights ;)

regards the DFT website quoted above - can i also point out

Legislation
The Regulations referred to above may be obtained through the Stationery Office under the references, SI 1986 No.1078 for the Construction and Use Regulations and SI 1989 No. 1796 for the Lighting Regulations. However, there have been many amendments to these base Regulations and it is important to obtain all of these in order to have the current situation.

i may be wrong - im trawling my brain here.. but im pretty sure the recent changes are something to do with European Law (EU), and VOSA are implementing it, although there is no specific UK law relating to it. It was actually Ifor Williams who first pointed this out to me btw, and they replated my trailer for me..........

I'm personally happy that I know Im within the law with my own combo, and if my sticky has made people check out their own that's fanatastic...... as I said though , at the end of the day, you shouldnt be relying on whats said on a forum, especially for such serious matters... you should always satisfy yourself through the proper channels. Unfortunately, ths is one that is fraught with confusion, even with the governing bodies.

[Niv2]

We may be at cross purposes here... I thought VOSA were responsible for professional operators and not the private motorist....

Certainly the requirements for professional operators differ in respect of towing as to those for private motorists....I believe that the rules for professional operators (ie, those who tow trailers as part of their occupation) are more stringent than those for private motorists wishing to tow.

[Bronya]

I think it was mentioned somewhere on another website that the thing about the MAM rather than the actual weight was an EU law?

[ali-c]

well, it's up to you isnt it:) Speak to vosa, they are the ones who will stop you and check weights ;)

.

When they stop you and weigh you they check that your car and trailer combined weight does not exceed the maximum train weight of your vehicle ( will be on the plate with your chassis number), they also check that the combined weight is not more than 3500kgs if you have passed your test after 1997 and haven't done the towing exam.

It's a pity it's so confusing becuase between us we must have spent alot of time researching this :) because we want to be doing the right thing ( both in terms of the law and in terms of safety).

It seems we interpret things a little differently and it would be great if it was clear cut! I feel a letter to 'the powers at be' coming on...if I do, I'll post the reply on here!

[BlueWicked]

We may be at cross purposes here... I thought VOSA were responsible for professional operators and not the private motorist....

Certainly the requirements for professional operators differ in respect of towing as to those for private motorists....I believe that the rules for professional operators (ie, those who tow trailers as part of their occupation) are more stringent than those for private motorists wishing to tow.


no, sorry, VOSA are responsible for everybody - they are the ones who set the standard for your car's MOT test and issue the certificate;)


When they stop you and weigh you they check that your car and trailer combined weight does not exceed the maximum train weight of your vehicle ( will be on the plate with your chassis number), they also check that the combined weight is not more than 3500kgs



they cant stop you and weigh you unless they happen to be stopped at a weigh bridge! They check the plates on your vehicle and go by the gross weights, as i explained in the sticky;) :)

[ali-c]

they cant stop you and weigh you unless they happen to be stopped at a weigh bridge!

That's fairly obvious .

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one, sorry but I don't think your sticky is completly right :o

[BlueWicked]

That's fairly obvious .

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one, sorry but I don't think your sticky is completly right :o

- no, but they will stop you at the side of the road, where there IS no weighbridge, thats the point. They are doing it all the time near me:rolleyes:

Anyway, fair do's :) Agreed to disagree :D

[ali-c]

- no, but they will stop you at the side of the road, where there IS no weighbridge, thats the point. They are doing it all the time near me:rolleyes:

Anyway, fair do's :) Agreed to disagree :D

If they are doing that then I'm confused...maybe I need to keep going with the research.

Sorry I'm not criticising your sticky..I just really want to get this cleared up. :)

[BlueWicked]

If they are doing that then I'm confused...maybe I need to keep going with the research.

Sorry I'm not criticising your sticky..I just really want to get this cleared up. :)

hey, its fine:) Im more than happy to have a freindly debate, and am happy to agree to disagree -just wish more folks would do that:rolleyes::D

- but yeh, thats the crux of my point hun, there are VOSA check points at the side of the road, and ive seen a lot of them. Nookster also said she recently saw one near her. They just set up in a layby and wave you in...

[tashford]

We have just bought a iw 505 and we tow with our Rover 75 2litre we only ever take one small 12hh pony ! But, after reading this thread I think this is illegal ! However, I think I'm gonna take my chances and if I get pulled over shall plead ignorance, as struggled to get money together for the trailer no way on earth can we changed car to a 4x4 as well ! Fingers crossed for me !

[Safedrive Steev]

I stumbled across tis thread whilst trying to help a customer of mine.

This is not an advert for me or my company, I've spoken to the Admin to clear this post. If by chance I can help you if you need training then that's great but this is a genuine FREE offer - no strings.

I'm a qualified ADI, qualified Fleet driver trainer, have HGV, PSV, Certificate of Competence for PSV & HGV and also a long serving (12 years and counting) Special for Derbyshire Constabulary. I describe myself as the 'anorak of traffic'.

I run a business training people to be driving instructors, teach fleet, eco & defensive driving as well as trailer training (B+E).

I believe there is going to be a link for me on the 'Ask the Expert' pages but in the mean time I offer FREE legal advice to EVERYONE. Yes - I run a business but that doesn't mean I can't help people and I'd rather everyone was safe and legal.

My web address is www.safesdrivedrivingschool.com (http://www.safedrivedriveingschool.com) and on it is a link to 'towing' and within that a 'Can I tow it' questionnaire. Fill it in and I'll give you the answer - no catches - no charge - just the answer. There is one proviso . . . .

you MUST give me ALL of the answers. I can not give you a legal answer without the information. The hardest thing to find is the 'Unladen Weight' of your towing vehicle - it isn't on the data plate - you'll need to look it up in the handbook or ask the dealer, either on-line or by calling. I WILL NOT look up weights for you. If you can not find the 'Unladen' I'll setlle for the 'Kerbside' and calculate a rough allowance.

I may not get on here too often - not sure how the Admins are going to set this up so please don't rely on me finding messages posted here - I suspect that most of the traffic will go via the 'Ask the Expert' link but feel free to e-mail me and put in the message header that you are from New Rider.

[Safedrive Steev]

Tashford - please don't do it. Ignorance is NOT an excuse in the eyes of the law. You WILL, if caught, be prosecuted. If you haven't got the right licence you'll also be uninsured. 9 points in 1 go and almost certainly a decent fine to go with it too.

Either way - licenced or not the maximum fine currently under the Road Traffic Act 1988 is a fine of £5,000 per offence. That's not for getting caught, that is per offence. So if the vehicle is over its' GTW that's up to £5,000 IF any of the axles are over weight (maybe because the traielr noseweight is set too heavy) that's another up to £5,000. Then IF the back axle is overweight there is a real chance the GVW will be over too - there's another £5,000.

You almost certainly will be prevented from continuing your journey whilst overloaded too. So now you are stuck roadside waiting for someone legal to come and rescue you.

So best case is a fine of up to £5,000 - upwards from there to £15,000 plus up to 9 points.

Worst case - someone dies.

[OwnedbyChanter]

After reading the orignal thread sometime ago I learnt heaps about towing.

I have listened and learnt and now the very proud owner of a 2.5 Kia Seronto. It is completely legal to tow an Ifor 505/510 with my 16.2 lad in.

I loved it when I took it for a test drive and feel completely safe driving it.

Just have to find and buy the trailer now!!!!!