what's the deal with those knotted halters?

[KarinUS]

I was just wondering why the natural horsemanship people go sell these knotted halters.
Of course you can also see people ride in them, etc.
I was wondering what made these halters special? Is it just looks?

[Cochise]

its not really an answer to your question, because I am not too sure myself, but I have heard then referred to as the "be nice" halter!

[larri]

The "Be Nice" works in a specific way as it has rounded metal studs ( not as horrific as it sounds!) over the poll area, so that when pressue is applied on the lead rope they cause a sensation on the horses poll who should then move forwards to release the pressure.

I think they can be a terrible thing in untrained hands - people tugging away till the horse shoots skywards!

I have one for Safira and it gets used fo e very short period when she needs a reminder about respect to ones handler! As soon as she clicks it comes off and I do her in hand work in a normal headcollar.

Larri

[Equitating]

I think the "be nice" halters and the knotted rope halters Karin is talking about are two different items.

I'm not sure about the effect of the rope halter, but everyone Western here uses them.

[Arabesque]

Seem to remember seeing Parelli books describing them as lighter, more comfortable and for the horse to be less likely to lean away from the pressure from them? Or words to that effect?

[galadriel]

From browsing around, I've seen references to a rope halter being more severe than a normal halter, using the same reasoning as bits: it's narrower and so has more "bite."

They're also theoretically adjustable for ANY head size/shape; since they're tied with knots that can be adjusted, they're infinitely adjustable. For a horse like my TB's, who have long TB faces but narrow TB noses, I usually can't find a halter that really fits. Either it's too short around the head, or to loose around the nose. I can see the application of extra adjustability :)

And too, I've seen people say they're "unbreakable" because there's no hardware to break--it's just rope. I'm not really sure that's a good thing.

[Rakeli]

I always thought that it was because they allow for a much more delicate 'conversation' with your horse - they can feel better and so can you. I think that they are also a lot more comfy than ordinary headcollars, as they are lighter and softer. There's the safety aspect too - if you get into trouble they can be easily cut through.

[Shiny McShine]

What makes them special is that they are effective in communicating with the horse. We used to use them on all our horses up until a time when they were consistenly well-mannered on the ground, then it didn't matter if you had a piece of mane to control them - you could.

I certainly hope it is not looks that makes them special as they are not pretty. I see people who obviously don't know the purpose of the halter look at me using them then look back to their own hundred dollar, brass plated, double-padded, european-hand-crafted headcollar, and go "ewww". So I at least am not doing it to be fashionable!

I use them because they are lighter and less bulky so they are not putting pressure via weight on the horse at all times and because when training a horse they get the message through quicker. Untrained horses tend to lean against a flat headcollar because it is comfortable to, so to get the horse moving you need to use more force. The rope headcollar is a more refined pressure which the horse responds to and if you are teaching your horse to respond this if very useful!

In untrained hands any equipment can cause problems. If you identify yourself as a beginner then stick to the more traditional stuff. If you want to advance use equipment that is more effective in acheiving what you want.

As for more severe it is just like bits. A severe bit is only as severe as the hands it is in. With the rope headcollar it is the same. It is designed for people who understand their horse, are sensitive to what is happening with their horse and who know how to react.

As I said before the traditional headcollar always has a pressure on your horses nose and poll relative to the weight of the headcollar. The rope halter is significantly reduced in weight and there for when you lightly pick up the lead the horse feels it. In the traditional one it takes longer for the horse to feel your signal as well as taking more pressure from you.

[Yann]

I've done a little groundwork with Rio, just simple stuff like coming forward, backing up, yieding etc. I tried it in a headcollar and also in a crappy rope halter of my own manufacture (old climbing rope, rather too thick!). It was far easier to make her understand what I was trying to ask for in the halter.

[KarinUS]

The reason I was asking is because a friend who is new to horses and lives in a nearby city is starting to ride at a place where they don't allow bits.
Everybody is expected to ride in a rope halter. The barn manager is very into the Parelli thing.
Since this guy is still new to riding he tends to grip etc. when it gets scarey and then pulls back to make the horse stop.
He told me it very much got the horse worked up and I couldn't picture someone wearing out a horse ridden in a halter.
So I was wondering if maybe the rope halter did exert more pressure than a regular one.
I wouldn't really consider it for DJ. I don't think it fits our training philosophy. Personally I believe the trainer at that barn is overdoing it a little bit with their dominance training (constantly backing up etc.) and don't think the horse needs to be reminded all the time who's boss but that's just me.

So I was just wondering... Thanks for all the great input!

[Peace]

Wow! You're kidding! Nobody's allowed to use a bit?! Just when you think you've heard it all . . .. I freely confess to being ignorant about a lot of these things, but I seem to remember a thread from a year or so ago that suggested bosals, etc. could do more damage to the horse in inexperienced hands than a traditional bit and bridle. Is it a bitless bridle they're using, or are they just riding in plain old rope halters? I guess that's one way to teach someone to ride with their legs!?

About that backing up thing - there are several girls at my barn who do a lot of that. You have to give them a wide berth, as you never know when they'll suddenly decide their horse needs to back up - far and fast! I don't know what it's doing for their horses, but the practice is certainly making their fellow humans a lot more agile!;) Karin, does some horse guru teach this as a domination method?

[BeccaH]

Getting a horse to back up when on the ground is a good way to establish dominance over a situation, but I would only usually use it if the horse was being really pushy, for example lots of horses will carry on walking past you after you have stood still when leading them. In this instance I would keep backing the horse up evry time it did this until it stopped when I did without being asked, but I wouldn't continue backing the horse up after that for no reason.... All my own horses back up to a voice command of "go back", but I would only get them to do this if politeness required it, for example when I am going into their box, or if they are backing out of a trailer. I certainly don't get my horses backing up all the time, there's no need, they are all very aware of me when being led and never get in my space, so I never need to ask them to back up in normal circumstances. Perhaps I am just lucky that all my horses are very polite!!!

Riding in a halter! Blimey. Do you get a saddle? Again I have ridden all ours in halters, and it's a lovely way to ride, but I am very secure in my position and all the horses work off seat/weight/leg aids anyway so it's no problem. I think if I was strating out though I'd find it quite hard, especially on a horse I didn't know so well. Just sounds a bit ott that bits are not allowed. I certainly wouldn't ride off the farm without a bit especially on the roads.

[Laetitia]

I do some parelli with my horse . Interestingly her big evasion is going backwards rapidly, so it is not a movement I actively encourage except when I ask for a rein back. She can be quite scary if one is on board at the time and I have to be brave and loose the reins and ask for a forward movement. Its taking me a long while as my natural reaction is to hang on tight, which makes her go backwards (usually towards a ditch!) faster, and I find it really dificult to loose the reins and relax and ask for forwards. L

[Sue Carnell]

In PNH a rider is expected to ride in a halter and one rein (the rope), then the halter and two reins (the rope as the reins, Natural Hackamore) until they can bridle their horse from their knees. PNH students have to earn their bit! There are steps to take to get there though.

The rope halter is effective as it's thin and light, which means it doesn't do anything and the horse can't really feel it that much until the handler does something with it, but also it has knots, which act on separate pressure points, when it is used. It doesn't tighten like a pressure halter though, so is potentially more educational than harmful in my view. Used to educate it works, used badly it is less likely to cause harm. I can think of other devices that have a similar effect. I wouldn't tie a horse with it, for example in a trailer, though, as it is unbreakable. jmho.

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Shiny McShine]

In PNH a rider is expected to ride in a halter and one rein (the rope), then the halter and two reins (the rope as the reins, Natural Hackamore) until they can bridle their horse from their knees. PNH students have to earn their bit! There are steps to take to get there though.

Okay this shocked me. Wouldn't mind some clarification of why this is so?

[Sue Carnell]

To help teach people an independent seat, not to pull on two reins and not to rely on stronger and stronger bits to 'control' their horses. They are expected to start in a controlled environment and have a lot to learn from the ground first.

Sue
sue@eclipse.co.uk

[Shiny McShine]

Okay, I knew that :rolleyes:. I think it was just the way you phrased it. :)

[Kerry's Partner]

And as for Sue - well, I'm sure she knows me well enough by now to put aside her despair!!

My observation has been that:

This halter placed on my horse has a MAGIC effect. btw I didn't do it (haven't earned my stars - yet) but I did observe VERY carefully the body language of my own horse.

I would swear that she thought she was actually "free" - she was quite puzzled 'though because she also knew, intuitively, that she wasn't. SO, for Kerry this was fun right from the start.

Add in a bit of Sue's fun on the way from the stable to the big arena and then I'd say Kerry was delighted.

Then - once arrived at said arena - to be able to PLAY - what, PLAY???????????? YES you can play says Sue. Ohhhhhhhhhh MUM is she a bit mad or CAN I play? YES Kerry you need to play, you want to play - so PLAY.

All in one, 2 minutes. AND she played her heart out, and she needed to, and I was absolutely astounded. It was all so quick, yet so slow, it was all so "controlled" but SO VERY FREE - and it appeared that the interaction (human-equine) was instantaneous, certainly not contrived - and yes dare I say it so NATURAL.

Oh well, there you have it - my interpretation of what I saw, which is based on my (deep, I hope), understanding of my horse.

I just wish we had videod (spelling/punctuation) it.

Anyway it was a brilliant to witness and it did my horse SO much good.

Sandra