Playing - it's natural - except in the horse world!!

[Kerry's Partner]

I played with my friends and my brothers and my parents. I played with my puppy when I was little. As a grandmother, I play with my grandchildren - and I still play with my (adult) children sometimes. Yesterday and today I played with my cats (3 of them).

Why didn't I ever (previously) consider "playing" with my horse??

[maverick927]

I think that playing with horses is slightly more dangerous. Rarely have a seen a child or cat with hard hooves and a kick that would send you 3 miles away.

Well anyway, that doesn't stop me playing with Maverick. We play in the field with footballs and we play chases. In the stable we again play football and I train him to do ridiculous things through fun. Believe me weeing in a bucket and bowing are the more sensible ideas!! lol

We alao bought Maverick a feed ball where he kicks the ball and the food comes out of the hole. That's his favourite. i think he could play with it until food came out of his ears.

[Yann]

Perhaps it stems from the traditional view of horses as working animals, and the fact that some elements of mainstream horse care don't pay much attention to the horses mental welfare and well being.

Of course horses don't play like puppies but I suppose anything that stimulates and amuses them (and us) counts as play. Rio seems to love chasing me about when Nat rides her, the pair of them reguarly wear me out:) Teaching them little tricks and making them find things like treats also qualify I suppose.

[Wally]

I'm not sure we play with our horses, but they certainly play with us, or do things to get us to pay them attention, then scuttle of sniggering.

The horses we have spend a huge amount of time playing with each other, but they are really rough games, chasing leg biting and boxing.

[Kerry's Partner]

I think what both of you think. My analysis (analysis always being a bit harsher) is a bit different too 'though).

I think that I never even thought that Kerry might have a need "to play" because of all the the "b................g" discipline stuff in the horse world!!!!!!!!!!

Yes it exists for a very good reason (SAFETY) I suppose. BUT, safety (for the human) at the expense of the integrity of the equine ------------- that is what I am beginining to wonder about.

You see, "play" seems to me to be a natural thing you can observe in most kinds of "life" - but it seems to be something which horses are NOT allowed to do.

In Kerry's situation she doesn't wish to "play" with other horses.l SO, if I cannot play with her (and Sue lives miles away) - what does this situation do for her wellbeing???????????????????

[galadriel]

I think most horses have a deep need to play--and the horses I've known who did not play were horses I felt very sorry for, as they were always withdrawn & sad.

I play with my horses. I chase them around the arena or pasture (well, run at them or run away); I know they're having fun when their tails are flagging, they're bouncing, and every so often they stop and snort. They almost sparkle.

I have to make sure I have some way to remind them to keep their distance; I usually carry a lunge whip or lead line. When they're playing, they get quite close to each other, body slam, buck & rear. I can't let them do that near me! So I play from a distance.

I also give them horsey-type rubs along the neck, withers & back (though they're not allowed to groom me...nuzzling is okay though). And occasionally I just go sit with them...no riding, no working, just sitting and watching, sometimes talking.

[Wally]

It's funny, but the mares rarly play, they stand and watch the boys having real dust ups. It's as if they are like little girls watching the boys in the playground in disgust.

The boys end up sitting down or kneeling, bums in the air, sometimes falling over in an effort to stop their pal biting legs, then they stand and box, even a 14hh Icelandic will have a boxing match with a 42 inch Shetland, the mares only join in the mad galloping round the houses. They might have a gentile face fight, you know, they take turns to nip noses but that's it.

[galadriel]

Oh, and more mouthy horses always have lots of options for horse to human play. There's scrub-the-nose with a grooming brush, there's tug of war, there's throwing toys (haven't managed to teach fetch yet ;) )...

[Kerry's Partner]

How do we help the girls to play?????????????????

[galadriel]

Mine are girls!

[Kerry's Partner]

Yes I can relate to your stories - but I think girls sometimes need to really "let it all out" (forgive the phrase) - which is a bit different to Kerry being "permitted" to smell and play with the brushes I am using on her. AND, btw I do allow her to "groom" me sometimes - as long as she's gentle. BUT I do think she needs to let off steam sometimes, and I DO feel really sorry for her because she is SO distant with other equines (except two who she met last year) and most other humans too!!

[galadriel]

If you are suggesting that my horses don't "let it all out" when we're playing, then you have got to come watch sometime ;) Snorting, bucking, rearing, charging, flagging tails...their whole bodies scream "this is fun!"

[Kerry's Partner]

NO - I do not do that - "suggesting stuff". My concern here is exactly what I have said - nothing more or less.

My MAIN point was the distinction (in general) between discipline and that thing I called "play".

Other than that my efforts are entirely concerned with the welfare of Kerry.

[maverick927]

Believe me and you, when in the field horses know how to let it out. sure look at Maverick's piccie in playtime in the field.

[Kerry's Partner]

BUT Kerry is not turned out with other horses. YES, she can let off some steam when she is turned out - but I way trying to introduce this thing called "play" - and surely you have to have someone to play with to play??????????????

[Wally]

Even little Wiffie who wouldn't dream of trying to play with a human (she's a mare) has a mad dash about pleasing herself, usually involves galloping downhill bucking, doesn't Kerry ever play round the houses bucking and farting round the park ....ever?

[galadriel]

I'm perplexed--if she won't play with other horses, will she not play with you? Or are you unwilling to play with her (for some reason I'm not aware of)?

[Kerry's Partner]

Kerry needs - I think she really needs to interact - but she's also not prepared to do so unless she REALLY trusts - equine or human.

She is not a problem horse but she is a horse with an unknown past and she is SUCH an individual.

I cannot say any more than I have - I've said it all. She is absolutely aloof, and even intolerant of other equines - but I strongly suspect this is because she feels she cannot trust them.

She would jump out of a field in order to avoid mixing with other horses - she has done so in the past. BUT, she still has needs, that's all I am saying.

[FRED]

I don't know if this may help, but my neice kept her pony with four sheep and a goat up until the F&M virus.The sheep and goat seemed to behave like horse at play time, I just wish I had video camera with me filming their antics. The sheep and goat followed him all round their feild even when the children were on the pony being led round the feild.
Trust can be so hard to 'build' and Im teribble for expecting trust without thinking I have to 'gain' it too, I don't know if horse may think like this, maybe some do.
:)

[Kerry's Partner]

Thanks Fred. You may well have given me an idea or two. Kerry certainly develops her trust with caution and thank goodness I've earned hers - and there are about four other people who have too. Now I need to set the scene for her to develop some trust of other animals.

[Kelly_Milton]

Hello, I don't know if this would help.

I just started "playing" with my horse, he has had a bit of a bad past. He is in a field with other horses but they either pick on him or he eats in another part of the field. We are trying the Pareli courses, they are showing me how to play safely with my horse and at the same time building better communication. He definatly enjoys running about and playing but he respects my space at the same time he has also become more gentle (no more head butting). Anyway I hope you find a way. Good Luck!!

[cvb]

Kerry's Partner

Why can't you play with her ? Won't she let you ? Or is it on your side ?

Sometimes we need to show them the way, sometimes they show us the way.

My second pony, who I still have at 31, is one of THOSE horses - he is a real character and figures that if it is possible to do something, then we clearly did not mean to prevent him doing it, so it must be ok. (Like open a gate into a vegetable patch, go under the strap across his door, etc). When he was living by himself, I used to play tag with him in the field to give him someone to play with.

My current mare is also very playful but I don't think she had really considered playing with people. I think she had been taught the hard version of "n.h." where it is very dominant and involves plenty of yelling and telling. (Not sure its what I would call n.h. actually). Its hard to undo that and let her learn that there is another way. She still seems to expect me to tell her off when she has done something perfectly reasonable from her point of view.

I was lucky enough to have a round pen at my last yard, but now loose school her in an indoor school. She gets the first few minutes to roll and let off steam. She introduced the playing part by doing figure 8's around me. When she's done, she calmly comes up to me and lets me know.

Can you put Kerry in a situation where she feels confident and can maybe explore playing with you a little bit ? She might not play at first but over time will start to try things out ?

Of course it would be even better if she could get to be comfortable playing with other horses...

[Kerry's Partner]

Playing - it's natural - except in the horse world!!
I played with my friends and my brothers and my parents. I played with my puppy when I was little. As a grandmother, I play with my grandchildren - and I still play with my (adult) children sometimes. Yesterday and today I played with my cats (3 of them).

Why didn't I ever (previously) consider "playing" with my horse??

Thought I should repeat my original post since I felt it was an important question to ask. You see I don't think that either Kerry or I have a "problem" so to speak. I was just telling you that I now want to play with her - and also that I can see she has a great need to play.

I know I will be able to play with her because even if I couldn't work out how Sue would teach me.

My thread was more about CONTRASTS - you see I've had riding lessons on and off for over 30 yrs (but don't tell anyone else because they'll begin to realise just how old I am). AND, playing has never ever entered into the curriculum!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kerry's Partner]

Yes, I suppose the critique could be that I've had "riding lessons" not natural horsemanship lessons.

My stance would be that I wish there had been "holistic" horsemanship lessons, then Kerry and I would have experienced something which was much more aligned to both of our needs.

Still, there is a silver lining................I know that we can do so hereafter.

Sandra

[Peace]

I agree - I think most of us are introduced to puppies and cats and children in a more "natural" way than we are to horses. With small animals and other children, kids are just plopped down and left to explore the relationship on their own for the most part. But most of us are "taught" how to relate to horses - with good reason, of course!

And our instruction often doesn't include how to play with them. I actually took lessons once from a lady who told me not to pet or praise the horse for doing what I asked while I was riding. She's a terrific horsewoman and a good teacher, but very businesslike always. According to her, praise and petting meant nothing to the horse and only spoiled my posture!

My current instructor is a great believer in play, but she is one of the few people I know who first experienced horses as most of us do puppies and kittens. At age five, her parents just bought her a pony and left her to get on with things. Not that I'm suggesting this is a good idea:eek: - it's a wonder some of us survived our raising back in the "good old days";) - but I will say she has the most relaxed, completely natural manner with horses I've ever seen.

Her horses certainly reflect her attitude - for good or ill!;) More than once her sly little Arabian has sneaked up behind me and tipped me into a pond or a trough!:D But then, I can't complain - her TB mare once took it upon herself to rescue me when I, as a neophyte, got myself in the middle of a fight between two geldings. On the whole, they're a pretty good bunch.:)

[cvb]

Kerry's Partner

I guess the ones who discover playing by themselves may well be the ones who are lucky enough to spend 'non-riding' time with their horses when they themselves are still young enough to naturally play ? (I don't necessarily mean chronologically !).

i.e. when we/they are still in tough with their inner child.

We used to clear our field of poo - well my mum did the hard work and we just wandered around. That led to us riding the ponies bareback and headcollar plus rope around the field 'finding the poo' for my mum ! The horses thought it was all quite amusing and got to the point that they would go and stand by them even if we weren't there :eek: :D

But as an adult, you/we tend to be much more task focused - everything has to have a reason to be done. Then you are less likely to just 'discover' play.

GaWani Pony boy said something about spending a day watching your horse. Personally I think if you have a chance on a nice summer day to go to your horses field and rather than riding, just lie in the grass and read a book or have a picnic, then you find something in yourself as well as your horse.:)

[KarinUS]

I think I will be stating the obvious or repeating what has been said before but I believe we don't think of playing with our horses because they are big enough to hurt you if it gets out of hand and -to me most importantly- they generally play so well amongst themselves.

I can't be out at the barn all the time and a lot of times when I go all I see is horses grazing a little ways away from each other or some little squabbles. But every once in a while I come at the right time and the herd will buck and run and play. Watching it you know they are having fun. When they had their rugs on I saw DJ teasing another horse (his girlfriend) by chasing her and pulling on her rug. You'd think it would be annoying but when he stopped she would go after him or call to remind him to continue.

I am wondering if maybe your horse isn't as bad as you think with other horses. How sad it must be for a horse to only depend on human companionship.

[Esther.D]

Mine live as a herd, like most peoples on here, and they get on really well. They all play together on the moors. I don't know where Pablo and Rupert had been playing a few weeks ago but there was liquid mud splashed all up their rugs so they must have found a nice mud patch to gallop through:D Gallie plays with me and goes in a sulk if I put him back in the field and then go out without a little chasing session (I chase him and then he chases me) - he prefers that reward to treats. But none of the others play - they will play tricks on me (or Stephen who is their preferred target:D ) and laugh to themselves but some of them would get upset if I tried to play - Polo would get very upset it I asked him to play like I do with Gallie. He enjoys lunging - to him that is playing he relaxes and charges around without worrying whether he is doing it right (he normally concentrates so hard when he is working - he hates the thought of getting anything wrong).

I think it all depends on personalities. Horses are the ideal playmates for each other but I certainly wouldn't refuse to play with them if they ask. I encourage everything to be fun - I try not to draw a hard line between work and play - they know they have to concentrate when I ask them but that doesn't mean it can't still be fun.

I would hate to think that I keep slaves.

[Kerry's Partner]

Too many replies to respond to each of you - but I'm so very pleased that you understand.

Esther: when I first bought Kerry my biggest problem seemed to be to get through the brick wall of discipline which seemed to me (just my opinion everyone) to equate to something like horse is slave!!!!!!!!! Kerry most certainly had had enough of that and, independently, I didn't like that either. There IS a difference I think between "training" which in our case means that my horse has the opportunity to develop to her full (ridden) potential, and "slavery". AND, as you've guessed as Kerry has begun to trust and develop she's just telling me now that she'd like to develop in the non-ridden (play) arena too. I think that the fact that she is ready to do this is a great breakthrough - she's not a baby, she is 13.

[Kerry's Partner]

Playing my style!!!!!!

I walked across the fields and found Kerry in one of them. SO I stayed outside of the fence and she was in her paddock!! And I played with her Sandra style (which is an attitude I've learned I can adopt since meeting Sue).

We played with the fence in between us. This served lots of good purposes since she should not be anything but "straight" atm and she's also a mare in spring and she loves her work but can't do it because she's not well - SOO

She mirrored MY body language on the other side of the fence and had a great time.

When I first arrived she was (my pet term) "anxious" Kerry - when I walked away from her she was "pleasantly surprised" Kerry - because she saw me walk up the lane (I've just moved to about 3 mins walk away from her).

When I went back this afternoon I got the warmest of welcomes from a mare who looks like a stallion again and whose eyes were just a wonder to behold - and this is from a mare who has been in a lot of pain in the last four weeks and has experienced a lot of changes too. This was such a lovely thing to experience.

Sandra

[ros]

Just a couple of quick ones:

Heather was telling me the other day about a little pony she had for years who used to love to play. If he got bored in lessons (she used him for a while in her riding school) he would pinch a whip from the child in front and trot round the school with it in his mouth; sometimes he would pick up and carry the cones used in games; and once he marched into the centre of the the school where Heather had her back to him, double-barrelled her in the bottom and trotted off back to the track! (Apparently both Heather and the child on board could do nothing for laughing for the next five minutes.)

On the other side of the fence, my stupid mother-in-law bought a yearling filly, took her away from her family and friends and kept her prisoner in a box with a grille for the next two years (on average she only had about 2 hours' turnout a day from what I can gather) and was then surprised when a) she got laminitis and b) kicked my mother-in-law a couple of times. The poor little thing had no-one else to play with and no way of letting off steam.