Dilemma with Rupert - to ride or not to ride? Opinions please!

[Esther.D]

Okay I have a dilemma so I want lots of opinions and explanations please:)

Rupert has been working very well through the early Parelli games and general handling. We have got to the point where we can relax him right down and lose all the unhappy anxious faces within 5 minutes (as long as there are no men around - we have discovered that he is much better with just me or even me and my mum) and then he will work well in hand (on a loose rope) and moves away from pressure etc very well - he can even have a leadrope swung across his back and round his legs etc without being at all concerned.

This is all well and good but where do we go now?

Originally I thought he was anxious generally and was going to work through his Parelli lessons until he got up to the stage where they introduce the saddle (lesson 9, we are on lesson 4 now but have got that far in only about three weeks so are working through fairly rapidly).

However as I am doing more work with him I have discovered that what he hates most is doing anything quickly without settling first eg. last weekend I asked him to walk around some cones on the leadrope - he was a bit resistant and cautious and very worried although he wasn't scared of the cones - so I took him to one side made a fuss of him for 5 min did some of his basic turns etc that he knows and then tried again - perfect this time completely relaxed and just following me with no pressure on the rope at all and a happy face.

He is often like this so I am coming to the conclusion that he might be fine to ride as long as I give him plenty of time to settle first and tack up slowly and ride gently (as I would anyway).

So do I
a. stick with the Parelli and wait before riding again as he should be really good with me by the time I get to lesson 9 - after he has successfully done all the games
b. start to get him tacked up in his handling sessions and do little activities (like the cones) but no riding yet until he is further through the lessons
c. start riding him again but make sure I do plenty of handling first and take it all slowly?

:confused: help:D

Sorry this is long!

For those who don't know Rupert's history - he does not buck, bolt, rear or any other problem, he is perfectly safe to ride just extremely anxious and tense and not very forward going because of his nerves....

[joy70]

im no expert, but if your progressing that well I would stick with it :D whats another 4 weeks, when you could eventually be riding him for years ;) plus the fact all the training your doing now will lay the foundations for getting in the saddle again, once you have got to lesson 9, you may find after a little while once he's gotton used to it he will settle much faster

Hope ive made sense;)

Good luck - keep us posted

[Esther.D]

That was my original theory Joy70....I just wondered whether I was being unnecessarily cautious. There is certainly no big rush to ride him - as you say another 4 weeks or so is nothing for a whole lifetime of riding (he is just rising 7 now). That is why I stopped riding him in the first place - to allow him to settle as he was getting upset and worried (as many people on this board know off by heart now as I have posted so many questions:D thanks all)

[joy70]

I think you do right to be cautious, at the end of the day better safe than sorry

Ive read a lot of your posts & can see youve had a lot of fun n games (soo to speak) with him - stick it out it'll be worth it in the long run & if he starts to get anxious again with the riding hopefully you will only need to go back one stage rather than all the way to the beginning to repeat it all again

Im very cautious as you may know too, but i'd rather have a happy pony and i know you would too - stick with it chick ;)

[Mehitabel]

if he were mine, given he likes plenty of time to settle with things, i would start tacking him up and doing the stuff you normally do, but with saddle etc on. then by the time you get round to getting on, the saddle is an established thing and one less thing to worry about.
the trick, i've found, is to only introduce one new thing at a time, and it looks like this is what's working with rupert.
then when you feel ready, just hop on, give him a pat and hop off again, and do it all slowly and gradually.
good luck with it!

[Horsey Bird]

Hi Esther D
Like you I've recently started PNH with my 4 yo mare. At first I was making poor progress due to my own ineptitude but was lucky enough to get on a 1 day course with Silke Valentin a few weeks back (the woman in the wheelchair with those 2 amazing Friesians).

The progress we made in that 1 day was SUPERB. We have only gotten to Game no 6, have tried No 7 with not-so-good results. However, I've been able to use a combination of PNH and Mark Rashid pointers to fix a few problems we had (stuff like learning to give her foot to have it picked out etc...). The point of all this is (and I know I'm rambling somewhat)...... before I started PNH I took my mare out on a hack and had to turn around almost immediately because I couldnt control her. That was 2 months ago (just after I got her).

Having gotten to Game 6 and found her quite responsive to light aids, I thought "lets try another hack". I tacked her up the PNH "way", she was a bit suspicious of it all but we went slowly and she settled quickly. Basicially we went out for over an hour with another mare and she was a totally different horse to the one I tried to hack out 2 months back. She did think about taking off once or twice but quickly calmed down again.

My own feeling is this; I do believe that PNH can yield superb results if you put the effort in. However I also believe that you dont want to have big intervals between ridden sessions in case he "forgets" how he's supposed to behave. Its not necessarily right for your horse to follow the PNH steps in the way they dictate, after all many people start PNH with older horses who have been ridden for years and continue to be ridden.

What I'm doing with my mare is continuing the PNH and doing a little ridden work at the same time. I'm only doign it this way because I feel my mare will be fine with it. I suppose what you need to do is judge how your Rupert will take it. Based on what you've said adn the trust you seem to have built with him, he sounds like he could take to a little ridden work as well as continuing the ground training. However, I hasten to add, I dont know Rupert.....so it has to be your gut feeling that prevails.

Sorry it such a long winded reply....its nice to hear how other people get on with PNH.
good luck!
M.

[Esther.D]

Ah someone else doing it too...it's always nice to know there are more of us out there. We actually got the Partnership set to use with Pablo really but it is working like a charm on Rupert. We have almost mastered the friendly game (he's not sure about the carrot stick but the rope and hands on handling are fine) and have had a little go at the porcupine game (moving away from pressure) and he loves that - he has learnt how to move around when I ask him now and it is like his party-trick he is so pleased with himself:D He has also become incredibly light to handle since I started it, he could be a bit strong before in a headcollar (when I first bought him he could only be handled on the ground in a bridle otherwise he towed me everywhere). I am amazed how much difference 3 weeks has made to him, I would never have believed it (especially as we only get to work 2 or 3 times a week with him). He now leads with the rope just draped over my arm and as I said earlier he can do a set of cones (set out like bending poles) like that with no pressure..

[Kerry's Partner]

It'll be impossible for you I would expect but he sounds so lovely - I'd want to take him on a course with Mike Peace - or get Mike to travel all that way up to you - but note the "want" - the distance is probably not practical at all.

[H & Bailey]

I would do as es suggested and carry on but introduce the tack,so he is getting more settled with the tack doing the games as it might be the feel of the tack etc that was making him more anxoius when ridden.

[Esther.D]

Kerry's Partner - I really would love to get him onto one of Mike Peace's courses (I have most of his books and am very impressed)...currently though we don't have a trailer (although that could change in the near future) and my budget is a bit limited for getting people to come to me. However it may happen -you never know!

I think Rupert would respond very well. He is beginning to come out of his shell and reveal himself to be a very quick learner and potentially a lovely and talented pony but he is so insecure....

[Esther.D]

H&Bailey - I think introducing the tack is probably a good in between stage and people seem pretty unanimous about it:D We'll give it a go and see how he is (we'll keep on with the lessons too of course - he is doing so well). If I tack him up alone he was pretty good anyway and I reckon after a good 'warm-up' session of grooming and basic handling he would be fine. We discovered that much of the tacking up problem (spinning around etc) was in fact because Stephen was holding him rather than anything about the tack - as soon as I tacked him up when tied up he was much better. I think that he has a fear of confrontation and being over-faced and asked to do something he isn't sure of rather than a fear of specific objects.....he is also definitely frightened of men. He won't let Stephen or my dad touch him unless I am there and even then he gets very worried - however he is much better for my mum and is the best with me.

The only piece of tack that did honestly seem to be a problem for him was his bit so we are changing that to a hackamore for the moment.

[Wally]

Having a "problem" horse myself I know there are no quick fixes and cutting corners will all end in tears.
I have had Ljóssie for 4 years now, we are still gaining trust and going forward. If he dies at the age of 30 he will still be a nervous, flighty animal, but he trusts me.

Put a foot wrong now and you'll not only go back to stange one, but beyond it.

There has to come a time when you do start the ridden work, but make sure that you are happy in your own mind that you are both ready.

You'll be fine when you do, you obviously have his feelings at the forfront of your mind.

[Esther.D]

Put a foot wrong now and you'll not only go back to stange one, but beyond it.

That is what worries me:( If he was a cocky little so-and-so like Bobby I wouldn't be half so bothered:D

As you say - I doubt he will ever be 100% confident....Polo is like that, he bolted and backed into hedges (all from nerves - unusual in a shetland) when I first had him (10 years ago now) and now he is the best competition pony I have and completely reliable but I still have to be careful who rides or drives him as he is very sensitive and can get into a panic easily - he hates not knowing what to do it tears him to pieces and he almost goes hysterical - he dances about and weaves from side to side, runs backwards and his nose shakes - until he has a good firm command that he knows and then he is fine. And he is so responsive that I backed him round a set of cones at the weekend just using voice and walking in front of his nose as he went back to guide him - no headcollar or anything - Polo is an amazing pony and I'm hoping Rupert will be another.

[ros]

Alois Podhajsky's favourite motto was "I have time", and I think it's a nice one to have always at the back of your mind.

As Wally says, there's no such thing as a quick fix.

[Esther.D]

Thanks all :D Oh if anyone was worrying that I was about to rush out and jump on Rupert now...I am just putting feelers out to see which is the best way to go next. People may remember my post about which bit for him weeks ago...well I haven't even had him in a bridle since I have just been working on handling. I like to get opinions well in advance then I can mull them over in my head for a bit and by the time I actually do it I have had plenty of thinking time:)

[galadriel]

Originally posted by ros
Alois Podhajsky's favourite motto was "I have time"

Mine is, "You can never move too slowly" :)

[Wally]

"You can never move too slowly"

Ljósie would like that in everyone who he encounters!