Won't stand and wait when hacking!

[Stella2]

I wondered if others had experienced this problem. My 7 year old mare who has been hacked out over the past few months and only a few times over the past year prior to that, will not stand and wait when out. She is generally very obediant in the arena and stands well there, but she seems to be very impatient when out and just wants to keep moving. I ask for halt, she does for a second they steps sideways, backwards, fights me and sometimes starts to have a bouncing tantrum. I'm a novice rider who does not do gates yet, I'm usually trying to wait for someone else doing the them. She is is sometimes taken out by a experienced friend who does her own gates. She tells me that the mare is impatient then too, but she is improving. However, she often does not manage to stand still long enough if its a fiddly gate.

She has got an impatient or willful side to her character, bargeing over people in her box and being awkward about her feet being handled were problems in the past, but these things resolved with time and experience. Do you think this problem will just improve with time and experience for her?

[galadriel]

Probably. Particularly if she is not rewarded for it (ie, if she moves around, you give up and let her move on).

Not wanting to stand still can be a symptom of nervousness, or of a training difficulty. If she stands well in the arena, she will probably learn to stand well outside.

You may wish to make the similarity ery clear to her. Work with her in the arena for several days on standing still. Then, go into the arena, work for a few minutes on standing still, then take her out hacking, and make her stand still along the way. If you emphasize to her that it is the same ehavior inside the arena as out (by working on it inside, then outside, then inside, then outside, over the course of several sessions) it should be easier for her to understand.

[helencheshire]

I had this problem with my last Sec D..

He was exactly the same! impeccable whilst at the yard, I could sit on him and chat away he would practically go to sleep!
He was very good aswell in stable, leading about ect.

He just loved hacking out and was very eager to be of and about everywhere, which in a way was good, but of course there are times when you need them to stand still ie like you said at gates, and also road junctions.

Time and perseverence(sp!) paid of...

It is quite frustrating, He would just walk of when stood still..even if I practically had hold of his bit!...
He would throw his head up, paw the ground... When I got to know him more and grew to realise he wouldnt buck or try to tank of, I would make him stand... as soon as I felt him give in however small I would praise him and let him walk on... Gradually he did learn bless him. I would try to halt at least every 10mins out on a hack.

I didnt feel he was being naughty as such, more or just ''..come on , come on... I wanna get going!''

[Stella2]

Thanks both of you. Helen - I was taking the approach you describe and like you thinking it was mostly impatience. However, today she upped the anti and had 4 good naps whilst out which started with the same kind of behaviour I get when asking for stand. There was lots of bouncing, then going down on hounches and spinning. On one occasion we were in the middle of a road fighting (for I'm told a good four minutes) - she saying "I'm going back to the yard", me saying "Oh no you're not madam" - traffic stopped both ways. I was a bit scared, but also annoyed as I knew she was being naughty - plain and simple and putting us both at risk. Feeling cross made me determined thankfully. I didn't think I could do it, but I knew I had to - phew She really was very naughty today, but we both arrived home (when I decided we would) in one piece and me usually the most scardy of scardy cats!

[Miriam]

Ann you did really well. The clicker training I was talking about can also help with this even when you are in the saddle. It is based on rewarding. Basically when you ask for stand and she does it you click the clicker then you can lean forward in the saddle and give her a treat.

I have a spare clicker and you can loan the book I have been reading ifyou would like to try it. Let me know and we can arrange to meet up.

[Stella2]

Thanks Miriam, when I have finished being annoyed by her willful ways (she was so naughty ...) I may get to it. I must say at the time, I felt like giving her something alright and it wasn't a treat (I should probably add that I am never cruel to animals and feeling like throttling her should be okay so long as I don't actually do it!). I skimmed through the horse trainer stuff on this topic and all the sources said that there are two causes of napping
1) fear/a spook 2) horse being willful and just deciding it isn't going to do as you wish - oddly all the sources I found then proceeded to talk only about the nap associated with fear. Since she wasn't scared by anything, none of the trainer sources (I accessed) were of any use!

[Miriam]

I know that feeling. I decided to free school Rhi tonight over some jumps. She would canter round them but not jump them Grrr.

The standing still was the problem I had with Rhi and the cart and the clicker training worked for her. Can Isla long rein.? As this was how I started teaching Rhi to stop and stand for a while. Rhi would not stand and wait whilst being long reined either and again the clicker training has taught her to stop and stand for as long as I want.

[Stella2]

Would you believe, she stood nicely sometimes when asked to on the mad hack! She is just very bolshy right now I think. I'm supposed to be riding her out again tomorrow and I'm a tad apprehensive. Working her in the school makes little difference and she views that as a totally different matter and is usually obedient there!

[Miriam]

If you would like me to come over and give you a hand I will. Maybe with someone else walking beside her when they stop and she stops we could click and praise her.

[Stella2]

I really appreciate that Miriam and if we get to the point where that is the problem again, I'll take you up on it. However, she really seems to have moved on to regular incidents of suddenly spinning with a view to running for home. Ingrid (you remember strong woman, yard manager) has really taken me under her wing and she is riding out with me each time at present. I have to say that so far in 4 rides, she has done wonders for my riding, so I'm just pretty much taking the approach of doing what I'm told (so unlike me)! I just hope she doesn't over-estimate me or under-estimate Isa, but she is a very experienced horsewoman.

After Mondays antics, I asked if one of her staff could ride Isa out for me before I'm down again on Thursday. She had the same girl ride her today, who rode her while I was away on holiday a couple of week ago. It seems Isa had 3 big strops with her today. Most of me would really rather not ride tomorrow, but I guess I do it or give-up altogether. Prior to Monday, I always viewed myself as being so novicey that I could only ride a quiet cooperative horse. But I keep reminding myself that the evidence is that I can do more !

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

[Miriam]

I am gald to hear that Ingrid has taken you under her wing and that you get on fine with her. From what I have heard I don't think you will have any problems with Ingrid. I think she will take it at your pace and only push when she thinks you can take that next step. If you are anyhting like me this is just what you need. That is why I love going out with Katherine as I know she will push me that bit further. It's scary but good :p

Go out tomorrow and I am sure you will really enjoy it. I know where you are coming from as have experienced this myself. I used to dread rding. One of themany erasons why I wanted to drive more. I know that the more I am off her back the worse it is for me to get back into riding :mad:

Now you are at Cocken do you know a foal called Pride?

[Stella2]

Miriam, I haven't come across Pride, but I've heard mention of a foal. Does he/she belong to someone you know?

I think you are very brave to drive. If a horse is naughty, I'd far rather be on its back than in the back of a cart, but then so much of this is psychological isn't it? Scary is partly what we tell ourselves is scary! I just struggle to get past the idea that a novice rider (i.e. me) should only ride a well behaved horse. Its not realistic is it? I just wish it was (dither, dither).

I'll send you a PM tomorrow night (assuming I'm not in too much plaster) to let you know how it goes :)

[Miriam]

Pride now belongs to two girls who were at Cocken. They are called Helen and Nicola. Helen has Charlie and another one which I cannot remember the name of. They used to run the tack shop near us and bought the foal from our yard. He is such a sweet thing and we do miss him although his mum is now expecting another foal soon. He will be year old now.

I just have a lot more confidence when they are in the cart. If they want to canter they can it does not bother me. I know a lot of people keep saying that if we were to have an accident it could be a lotmore serious but I can only think that if it is going to happen then it does not matter whether I am driving or riding.

I agree with you. I found such a big difference from riding a riding school horse to riding something that had never been in a school. Copper was the first spooky horse I rode. He would spook at the least little thing (how I managed to keep him for a year I don't know). I then looked for something on full loan that was very quiet. Causey was one of the quietest mares I could have found. Hardly ever spooked and could have been left with the kids and I know they would have been safe. I could just not gel with her. I think she was too quiet after Copper. Merlin was stubbon and like Copper taught me a lot. Rhi is a mixture of Copper and Merlin with a little of Causey on a good day. Maybe that is why I could never consider selling her when we go through our very trying patches :p The only thing I do regret about loosing Causey is that three weeks before she was due to go back I had started to gain my confidence in cantering a few steps. I feel had I kept her a bit longer I would be cantering happily now.

Hope everything went well for you today