Ouch! Biting Pony

[SJ]

Please tell me how you would all handle this. We've just taken a 13.2 NF pony on loan for my daughter to compete on this summer. Pony is fabulous in every way except she has teeth! We were warned that she made filthy faces and she does. I can live with this but she tries to bite anyone who walks past her box, tries to nip when rugs are being done up etc. and sometimes even when she's bouncing her way out to the field and I make her walk properly. She's only 6 and full of life, I'm sure its just petulant teenage behaviour but it would be nice to stop it if we can and before someone actually gets bitten. She actually does love attention but this behaviour is inevitably having the opposite effect.

[ilovemisty]

How old is this little pony of yours?

[SJ]

She's nearly 7 yrs. For the last couple of weeks I've been growling at her when she looks as if she's about to bite. It's just such an unpleasant habit for a kids pony. I'm not sure if one can ever cure them once they start to bite.

[CityGirl]

I think the growly face helps a lot - especially if she is just testing you. I'm leasing a known biter & every time he puts his ears back & looks like he's thinking about it, I growl at him & make a face. So far it's working - I'm the only person in the stable he hasn't bitten. Also, some people have suggested making sure you keep your elbows up while brushing, etc. That way, if the horse goes for a nip, she smacks into your elbow. It's not "you" hurting her but instead, she starts thinking the biting leads to hurting. That being said, you have to have your elbow in place BEFORE the attempted nip, not always easy.
You should talk to Peace - she's had great luck getting her boy Quanah to lose the "teenage boy" biting behavior!
Good luck!:)

[casey]

Richard Maxwell has an excellent article about biting in his book Birth to backing. Worth a read.

[soph]

sent u a pm SJ!

[Peace]

Thanks, CityGirl!:o :)

SJ- would you say the pony is just nippy/mouthy, or is she actually lunging out of her box in an effort to hurt people? Either way, of course, I can see why you'd be concerned about this behavior, especially with children.

My fellow, Quanah, was gelded late and had a previous owner who hand-fed alot of treats. In fact, when I bought him, his nickname around the barn was "Snapping Turtle.":o But I don't think he ever did it from meanness - he's really just an attention-junkie. Problem was, people had been smacking him for nipping, which to his coltish mind was kind of a weird invitation to play and actually made the behavior worse.

I just started "freezing up" when he put his mouth on me. The only attention it got him was a stiff-bodied owner glaring him in the eye and making a noise like a spooked goose. When he didn't have his mouth on me, I'd scratch or pet or laugh at him a lot (for some reason, he likes the sound of people laughing). It took a little while, but he's pretty much stopped nipping me.

Unfortunately, he still sees nothing wrong with nibbling the occasional stranger - so I can't say he's cured yet! And I can't claim to have much experience with a no-s**t biter. We only have one of those at the barn - he amputated a woman's ear once. He does it because he's incredibly food and stall protective, and his problem is totally beyond my experience level.

You say this pony loves attention - do you suppose withholding it when she is acting ugly and giving her lots of it when she is good might help?

[SJ]

Thanks Peace & Citigirl

She is mouthy and will chew anything near her, throws her feed bowl around, undoes ropes etc. The dentist is due next week so I'll have a word with him. But she does also have a definite ears back attempt to bite.

She a really bumptious little pony, full of teenage girly attitude. Heaps of presence, very pretty, lively ride and lovely jump. On a good day she can't be beaten but on a bad day she's an complicated ride. My daughter who's 12 seems to like the feeling of sitting on a UXB and doesn't worry about the occasional high octane buck. She's living on fresh air so it's not her feed. I'm sure the biting is a mixture of impatience, jealousy and attention seeking.

I've been growling at her for the last few days and making myself big and solid and I think she's just beginning to get the message. At other times she's a pussycat and will stand for ever while we chat around her lapping up being in the middle of it all. I think she just like to be kept busy and involved. The snapping when you pass her box is clearly "a look at me" sort of thing but gets the opposite reaction from people. On Sat morning I was trimming and plaiting another pony for a show outside her box, madam went round and round her box, snapping and ears back total jealousy. I was beginning to wonder how I was going to get her plaited as well, but the second I start started on her she stood like a rock, lowered her head and positively purred. She made faces at the other pony all the way to the show and then spent the rest of the day calling across the showground at the top of her voice for her new found "enemy". Give me geldings any day!!

Sara Jane

[CityGirl]

I can't stop laughing at your description of your little "madam":D
That's why I stick with geldings!

[ponytude]

sorry if I missed this but do you hand feed him? Nippers are started somethimes that way but...... Well newrider helped me out with a pony that used to bite me. Try to punch in the shoulder when she bites or spray him in the face with a water bottle? western told me some good tips on this! well lots of people did but I'm sorry I forgot! ask western though!

[Peace]

Sara Jane - the "plaiting envy" is hilarious!:D Sounds like she loves attention. I bet you'll be able to get her to do whatever you want soon, just by ignoring her when she's bad and making over her when she's good.

It worked on my formerly evil cat - my husband has taught her to sit and stay, just by using that technique.:p

[ponytude]

I guess you can almost say love bites!!! in my case anyways!!!

[SJ]

Absolutely no hand feeding - I've been around ponies too long! She's actually only on loan and came about 6 weeks ago. I doubt she was given treats before as she is owned and ridden by a sensible 19 year old.

Not sure they'd be classified as love bites!! I'll let you know if she finally gets me.

It's a bit of a shame really as everyone's giving her a really wide birth except me. Even my husband thinks she's an evil ***. But then he's used to our others who all love a bit of a cuddle.

We're off to a show on Saturday and she's going on her own so lots of individual tlc.

Thanks for all your advice, will keep you posted

Hopefully if it's worked here’s a piccy of madam and my daughter strutting their stuff - they came 5th out of 55 first time out as a pair so we were very proud.

Sara Jane

[NoviceNic]

I don't know how you would feel about this. I have just bought a pony and she is a nibbler. We have not given her any treats and will never spoil her on *** bits. She is definately getting better because we don't spoil her but my friend the other day actually bit the pony back after she had bit her. The pony went to nibble again and my friend went to put her mouth down and bite back and my pony thought " Better not this hurts". Situation seems to be getting better and she hasn't bit my daughter yet. Let me know how you get on.

xxx

[chapsi]

Threads like yours make me feel sad, as I am in a similar situation, regretably.
I have been handling a confirmed biter for the last 10 1/2 months.
When I bought him (I should have been more careful at reading his signs), he was very thin, obviously eager to call us, begging for food. He would follow you everywhere, gently, and lick your hands. I thought he was just affectionate. However, he gave me other signs; he pinned his ears back when approached (his owner convinced me that he wasn't used to strangers); attempted to bite my husband (I dismissed it, I thought my man was being an idiot, as he knows nothing about horses) and after riding him the first time he nibbled me on my leg (again the owner convinced me that he was just being playful).
There you go, "I asked for it", many might think. No, I did not! Nobody deserves the nightmare of having to cope with a biter.

In the first few days he didn't bite anybody, but a poor attitude was always present. The yard's owner reckoned it was just a matter of time.
As a matter of fact, his biting got worse and he bit several people, to the point that I had to re-address the whole situation. Nothing, no approach seemed to work - I tried EVERYTHING!
So, I hired my instructor to train him, costly and patiently.
My instructor reckons that his biting his due to revolt against mankind; he doesn't like or trust people, he hates work, he hates physical contact. Besides, he is a very intelligent horse, always devising ways of testing.
Nowardays, the main target is to make him understand that people are nice, that he can trust humans. My instructor's approach is that whenever he shows signs of biting, instead of pulling away you make yourself big, and get even closer to him; if he presses you, make him feel unconfortable (at this point he tends to slap him on his nose, but I desagree with this, as this ios making him more head shy). At the same time lots of touching (he now loves me to brush his mane). He gets warning words (which he understands) if he gets stroppy. At the same time his training is intensive but short, increasing gradually. When handling him from the ground no crops are ever used as cohersion. A bit of ground work and join up has been introduced into his training.
His biting has subsided, but still latent. In fact, last Sunday he bit a boy, who was just holding his lead rope.
His biting is unpredictable and generally unprovoqued. Sometimes he does it as defiance, when displeased with us, or simply as a resort to get his own way.
Things are improving, but very slowly. Sometimes I wonder if he'll ever loose this nasty habit.

[western]

Well your horse is still young and its just a habit that the horse found. When i got my horse he used to bite me too , he was probably just teasting me but then it just got out of hand , when he bit me right in the rib and made a bruise . I said that no more of that . Its a good thing that you dont do hand feeding , beacause they can pick the habit by that too. What got my horse to stop biting was when he was about to do it i gave him a slap on the neck or nose and told him No in a firm voice. And when he didnt i praised him and told him good. Their is just good behavor and bad behavior and we need to tell them whats good and bad. Soon or a later the horse will pick up on not to do that .

[Shady_Indigo]

Shae was a biter when i first got her too.
She still tries it on sometimes, but not to the extent she used to.
What i did was that when i could see her getting ready to bite, in the BIGGEST GROWLIEST ANGRY BEAR voice you can muster GROWL like a bear...SO LOUD. So loud that people down the road can hear you! in a really deep voice. Also if this does work, carry a jumping size whip with you, when she does it, a firm slap on the shoulder will stop her in her tracks. Eventually she'll learn that if she tries, she will get hurt, so its easier to just not try.

[SJ]

It's comforting to know we're not alone with this problem and you've all managing to handle it. Even you sound like your winning Chapsi against very difficult odds.

A funny thing happened yesterday. Our farrier inadvertently put her back in a different box alongside a completely non-confrontational little pony, she stayed there half a day before the mistake was spotted. Although I wasn't there she was apparently completely calm and laid back. She's is normally between two ponies one of whom is aggressively possessive about food, I'm just thinking perhaps these two ponies were winding each other up making the biter worse. I think I'll try an experiment and switch them all around for a while.

Will keep you posted.

Meanwhile I'll keep on GROWLING LIKE A BEAR......

Sara Jane

[Sapphire]

I know it's a bit late coming in but perhaps it'll be useful for anyone. You know the 'bucket muzzles' you can get for horses? they're brown with two holes; put that on the cheeky four-legged friend of yours. There is nothing clever or tough about leaving yourself open to being bitten, horse bites can be very serious. By putting this on, say while grooming, it'll prevent you picking up any wounds but still enables you to school the horse, because he'll still try and bite you!

One day I was in the stable with a great big grouchy mean-butted gelding, he tried to really bite me, right in the face (he could whip around on a 6 pence), ears back and gums up job. He was known to be a vicious violent biter and he charged too. Before he even got his teeth on me he was rewarded with an emotionless slap on the shoulder and a leadrope under the belly and an evil sounding growl and glare! He never touched me again. That fact is if he had done that to any horse in his herd, he would have been bitten/charged at or kicked.

Horses can and will use physical violence against others if the situation calls for it. But the difference with them 'slapping' their naughty friend (kick, bite whatever) is there is no emotion in it, whatsoever, while us humans often use physical violence and let our emotions erupt through it. If some horse is trying to take my face out, sometimes a sharp slap on the shoulder just has to do, along with big scary 'I'm-going-to-get-you' body language. We can be too soft on horses, but saying that, the situation is very rare when you have to resort to a slap (not a beating, and nowhere else but the shoulder).

It's either me or the horse, and I'd much rather deal a slap than be blinded by some horse who has no manners!! We only have one body, it needs looking after. Sometimes you got to get tough and usually you only have to do so once. But if you can, stick to the body language, throw you arms up, jump, wave your limbs around, it hardly ever fails to get that horse to get back and out of your space! People will think you mad, but it's effective!

With that particular gelding, I knew his history, knew his character and judged that it was the best course of action with him. We became great friends after and I never had a problem with him, in fact I would have purchased him if I could have!

But I do strongly advise the mucket muzzle, they're about £10. Also wear your body protecter, they're good for protecting your sides which are often targeted by vicious bites.

[SJ]

Thought you you all might like to know that the biting has almost stopped. A combination I think of Bach flower remedies (always amazes me they work) for jealousy, loud growling and plenty of attention. Haven't had a chance to swop the boxes around though.

Last week she started a new trick of fairly serious bucking when my daughter asked her to stop cantering. I was very worried about this one as it was only a matter of time before my daughter hit the deck. Luckily we've solved this one quickly as the dentist came on Sunday to see all our ponies. Despite her owner having told me her teeth had been seen to recently, her teeth were in a dreadful state, really sharp edges with sores all down the sides of her cheeks - poor pony. Funnily enough the bucking has stopped now!!

Thanks for all your replies.

Sara Jane

[Peace]

Sara Jane - I am so pleased to hear the biting problem is almost gone. Sounds like you have her figured out!:) Poor baby about the teeth - glad you got that sorted out.

Sapphire - we use a muzzle on the ear-amputating gelding at the barn whenever he has to be handled. When leading him from his stall to his field, he's usually good - but only if he sees you have a lead rope in your hand and knows you will whack him with it if he offers to bite! It's a shame, really - this is a beautiful horse who has somehow gotten very food and stall protective. After biting his former owner's ear off, he sold very cheap to a man who boards him at my boarding stable. I've never seen the man work with him, though.:( Although I suppose the big reprobate is pretty lucky not to have wound up at the sales!