A Day at the Dealers Yard! *VIDS*

[beating_hooves]

Well I ended up trying three horses, two were the dealers horses and one was at another yard that she was selling on behalf of her friend. When my mum spoke to her on the phone a couple of days ago she told us that she only really had youngsters for sale, which isn't really what we're looking for, we wanted around the 8-9 region. But she told us to come down anyway to ride a couple just to get a better feel of what sort of horse we're after. So as my mum had already taken the day off, we did :)

Horse #1

A 5yo dark bay gelding called Bertie, registered name Zermatt. He was big at about 16.3hh and had fantastic bloodlines and you could really tell, he was a stunner. But the woman told us that someone had recently had a vetting and although the vet said he was absolutely fine, he couldn't give the certificate due to making a slight noise in canter hence the reason he was within our budget. Anyway I hopped on. He was a big horse and he rode very big. Because he was young and had such long legs, he was quite un-coordinated and gangly, but had a heart of gold. He hadn't done much jumping so all I could try him was over a cross pole. He ran out first time and knocked it the second time, he hadn't quite got the hang of it yet. Sorry no vid of this one, sister forgot!

Horse #2
A 4yo bright bay gelding called Ronaldo AKA Ronnie, registered name 'A' (?). He was 16hh but a lot shorter and more compact so I found him a lot easier to ride. He was absolutely gorgeous the more I rode him the more I fell in love with him. He had lovely flatwork for his age and although he was green jumping, he was so so willing. We tried a tyre jump which he ran out at first time, my fault really but after a tip from the lady he popped it no problem!

Vids!
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mad______moo/?action=view&current=DSCF3372.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mad______moo/?action=view&current=DSCF3373.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mad______moo/?action=view&current=DSCF3374.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mad______moo/?action=view&current=DSCF3375.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mad______moo/?action=view&current=DSCF3376.flv

Horse #3

17hh german hanoverian mare. Big built and 10yo. She was very gentle in the stable despite her size. She was a very very eager jumper which was fantastic to ride, but there was a lot to do with her flatwork and I don't think I'd be tall or strong enough to event her.

The Vids!
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mad______moo/?action=view&current=DSCF3377.flv
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mad______moo/?action=view&current=DSCF3378.flv

THE VERDICT

Horse #1
Stunning and great temperament but he is a bit too big for me to ride and is very green with his jumping. Also the fact he makes a noise in canter worries me, might be a problem when we do more strenuous work.

Horse #2
Oh I loved him! Loved his colour, loved his temperament and loved his attitude. I really didn't want something so young but I honestly don't want to let this one go! So going for a second look at him very soon!

Horse #3
Amazing jumper! I felt like she would jump anything at all. But there is too much work to be put in with her flatwork and if I'm honest she is too big for me. She was a gorgeous colour though!

I'm still going to keep looking around for others bit I really do like Ronaldo!

[mikh]

I like ronaldo too!!!! any reason you wanted an 8-9yo (sorry havent been following your threads)

[beating_hooves]

I like ronaldo too!!!! any reason you wanted an 8-9yo (sorry havent been following your threads)

Just because they are more mature and probably have more experience under their belts. Which means I can go out and event them a lot sooner :)

[Melting Moments]

Are you sure the sound isn't hs sheath lol

3rd some sounds good for you, go for her, doesn't matter if shes young, you can learn together.

[mikh]

Just because they are more mature and probably have more experience under their belts. Which means I can go out and event them a lot sooner :)

oh cool, i really like ronaldo though, I thinky ou could do a lot with him he seems to have a very sane mind. Cantering in the field trotting the tyre jump and not rushing. May be a good investment and project for you :D

[domane]

I agree, horse number two looks to suit you better - you actually look like a great team together already. The mare was a little pokey nosed and hollow - I could see her becoming opinionated in the future. Ronaldo is better looking too, in my eye.

All the best..... I hope you get him! :D

[gennalouise]

I like the third best personally (very untrained eye though) I like how she looks like she enjoys jumping. My mare is the same and flies towards anything and were learning together. That said number two looks a little easier!!!

[dessert_storm87]

I like the second one, he's gorgeous! Looks as though he would be fun for you, and I think you look a good size on him etc.

[beating_hooves]

Are you sure the sound isn't hs sheath lol

3rd some sounds good for you, go for her, doesn't matter if shes young, you can learn together.

Haha sack the vet if it is! Apparantly its coming from the pallet in his throat where the flap of skin isn't lifting up properly.

Do you mean the second? He's the 4yo :)

oh cool, i really like ronaldo though, I thinky ou could do a lot with him he seems to have a very sane mind. Cantering in the field trotting the tyre jump and not rushing. May be a good investment and project for you :D

There was about 10 other horses wandering around in the field too, and he didn't even seem to notice! :)

I agree, horse number two looks to suit you better - you actually look like a great team together already. The mare was a little pokey nosed and hollow - I could see her becoming opinionated in the future. Ronaldo is better looking too, in my eye.

All the best..... I hope you get him! :D

Yeah he really was starting to feel like 'my' horse :)

But no! You guys are supposed to be telling me to go out and but something I set out to! :rolleyes:;)

I like the third best personally (very untrained eye though) I like how she looks like she enjoys jumping. My mare is the same and flies towards anything and were learning together. That said number two looks a little easier!!!

She really did enjoy jumping, felt like she could do it all day! But if I got a 10yo I would want one which had had a bit more schooling.

I like the second one, he's gorgeous! Looks as though he would be fun for you, and I think you look a good size on him etc.

Thanks, he felt a good size for me :)

[mikh]

Nope get ronaldo!!!!!

[gennalouise]

To be fair I agree! My 9 yo is very much the same and rides like a 4yo but then im not looking to compete and i happen to think the giraffe with a rocket up the bum is a very good look!! lol

Then Number two as you did look very good on him!!

[Ace87]

Just remember once he's muscled up and hit 6 he may turn into a bolshy stroppy opinionated git! Q was a delight at 4 and a pain at 5!!

Ronaldo is the one I liked best though, he suited you most methinks - are you convinced you'll be able to handle and produce a youngster (PLEASE don't take this as criticism, I'm just asking the question so you're 100% sure!!) and have you got the team behind you to help you? :-)

[L34NN3]

But if I got a 10yo I would want one which had had a bit more schooling.

That's what I thought...

Ronaldo looks nice. He's lovely and uphill and has a nice neat jump on him. He also doesn't seem to rush them at all.

I wouldn't fancy trying to stop that mare xc - I'd stay away from a puller like that if you plan on xcing her. She's huge with a big upside down neck...

Ronnie for me :) 4 year old or not...

[Trio]

ronaldo is gorgeous - he's def me my choice and you get him before he's been spoilt as well.

[beating_hooves]

Just remember once he's muscled up and hit 6 he may turn into a bolshy stroppy opinionated git! Q was a delight at 4 and a pain at 5!!

Ronaldo is the one I liked best though, he suited you most methinks - are you convinced you'll be able to handle and produce a youngster (PLEASE don't take this as criticism, I'm just asking the question so you're 100% sure!!) and have you got the team behind you to help you? :-)

Cherry was 4 when I bought her, with absolutely no jumping or flatwork training at all. With help from numerous fantastic instructors she is now 7 and successfully eventing at novice level. I have three separate instructors for Flatwork, Showjumping, and XC, all proffessionals so I like to think I have a good team :)

And of course I have all of you lot ;)

[mikh]

Pleaseee buy him, i never usually like a horse this much!!!

[L34NN3]

I've just watched the vids again and I am even more impressed by him this time! My best friend as brought on a lot of eventers over the years and he looks like he has everything it takes. He has lovely floaty paces, incredibly uphill for a 4 year old and a nice balanced canter. His trot is of quality enough that he would have no problem doing medium trot in not too much time :D. He has a nice compact jump and doesn't waste energy over the jumps. He doesn't stay in the air for ages either which would do you good for time penalties.

All in all I think he is a real quality horse. Just don't let on to the dealer that you think that though!

[beating_hooves]

I've just watched the vids again and I am even more impressed by him this time! My best friend as brought on a lot of eventers over the years and he looks like he has everything it takes. He has lovely floaty paces, incredibly uphill for a 4 year old and a nice balanced canter. His trot is of quality enough that he would have no problem doing medium trot in not too much time :D. He has a nice compact jump and doesn't waste energy over the jumps. He doesn't stay in the air for ages either which would do you good for time penalties.

All in all I think he is a real quality horse. Just don't let on to the dealer that you think that though!

The more I watch the videos the more I fall in love with him! He really is quality, I dont' think we could afford a horse like him as an 8-9yo.

[Dooley]

I like the look of him and his attitude.
But he looks ever so slightly unlevel in front to me in some of his trotwork (Or maybe it's your sister wobbling a little with the camera?)

[L34NN3]

The more I watch the videos the more I fall in love with him! He really is quality, I dont' think we could afford a horse like him as an 8-9yo.

That was exactly my thought! Get him xc schooling and in a few local xc intros and you would be looking at £5k+. Get him doing BE and it goes up even more...

If you have the experience to put the work in I'd go for it. He's a talented little beast :D. Just make sure there aren't any little quirks that the dealers aren't hiding...

[L34NN3]

I like the look of him and his attitude.
But he looks ever so slightly unlevel in front to me in some of his trotwork (Or maybe it's your sister wobbling a little with the camera?)

I thought that a little at first but then though it could also be due to him only being 4 and slightly unbalanced. A vetting would pick up on that though.

[beating_hooves]

I like the look of him and his attitude.
But he looks ever so slightly unlevel in front to me in some of his trotwork (Or maybe it's your sister wobbling a little with the camera?)

I thought that when I watched the videos. He certainly didn't feel it though, although he did wobble his head a bit. Maybe he was just being a baby and playing with his feet.

That was exactly my thought! Get him xc schooling and in a few local xc intros and you would be looking at £5k+. Get him doing BE and it goes up even more...

If you have the experience to put the work in I'd go for it. He's a talented little beast :D. Just make sure there aren't any little quirks that the dealers aren't hiding...

Oh god, I think I'm really going to end up with this little chap!

But yes, I will definately ride him again and we will get him vetted before purchase, IF we purchase ;):)

[KJW]

Yep, I think you look great on number 2! The mare looks far too tricky for my liking! I think the head wobbling thing could just be him getting used to your contact. If you were playing with your reins, this could be all it is. The thoroughbred I ride does it if I get "too fiddly". Good luck with it all, fingers crossed you've found "THE ONE" :D

[mikh]

I think the seller sounds really nice too!!

[Innocence]

Go on, go ride him again, i think your already smitten ;)

[beating_hooves]

Yep the seller was lovely :)

Right have now arranged an official date and time of a second viewing! :D

[sarahandbronson]

I like him! He seems to suit you aswell, go and try him again, the sooner the better because he'll probably only get more expensive... I don't like the mare though, as keen as she looks I don't think she'd event very well, and you look like you're having to brace yourself against her at some points...
Are you going to look at any others elsewhere? I know someone who's selling a coloured horse, I think that it's evented :)

[fjordlady]

Ronald was definitely the better horse and you can produce him to meet your needs your way;).

The mare has the muscling on the underside of her neck which is hard to correct and probably contributes to her neck up and hollow back carriage. She would no way be ready to start eventing with her way of going at the moment. Also its sometimes more difficult to correct something. May as well put the work into Ronald;):D.

[beating_hooves]

I like him! He seems to suit you aswell, go and try him again, the sooner the better because he'll probably only get more expensive... I don't like the mare though, as keen as she looks I don't think she'd event very well, and you look like you're having to brace yourself against her at some points...
Are you going to look at any others elsewhere? I know someone who's selling a coloured horse, I think that it's evented :)

Yes we're still looking, do you have the details of the coloured? :)

[L34NN3]

What day are you going for a 2nd try? I'm all excited for you!!!!

[beating_hooves]

What day are you going for a 2nd try? I'm all excited for you!!!!

Tuesday :)

The lady said she would hold him for me until then, thank goodness I'd be devastated if someone came and took him!

[bexc3]

Definately the second one he was gorgeous and you two looked great together :D. I did initially think he looked a tad unsound but when i looked a bit closer he appeared to just be resisting the contact a bit and just tossing his head up and down a little. I think everyone else is right in saying the mare was a bit to fizzy and seemed to rush alot, i also think she may become a bit oppinionated.
I hope he goes just as well on the second visit and try not to let his age become too much of a factor, good luck. x

[naurarwen]

I have watched each video once and I have to say I'm absolutely in love with Ronaldo. He's gorgeous and the way he goes at the jumps is amazing. He's not rushing and doesn't look like he's going to rush into them which in my opinion is good.

The jumping done on the mare was awesome though, but alittle rushed in my opinion. But I guess thats only really my opinion. Have only jumped one horse recently which is my mare and I love her jumping as she goes nice and steady at jumps so I guess thats just how I prefer it.

[beating_hooves]

I have watched each video once and I have to say I'm absolutely in love with Ronaldo. .

Hehe, you and me both!

[Bangers & Mash]

TBH I didn't like either of them, they just wern't my to my taste in horses. I although I preferred second one.

As you have PMed me your budget and requirements before, I know I keep going on about it but I think you would find better horses for your money at Rumer. And they would defiantly have more potential than those two.

Sorry to be so blunt.

[Bangers & Mash]

Just to add, I tried Bella also a Rumer before I brought Heart and she was amazing, the description just doesn't do her justice, if I hadn't of brought heart I probably would have brought her!

http://www.rumerstud.com/horsesforsale.php?idx=6

[naurarwen]

Hehe, you and me both!

If you don't want him can I have him.....well I would if I were still looking for a horse anyway.

[Kate&TheHerd]

number 3 looks nice, also like number 2 lots of scope. number 3 (and i dont know much) but his canter looked quite jolty? not sure if its him excited and you holding back but didnt look like hes flowing well?

[beating_hooves]

TBH I didn't like either of them, they just wern't my to my taste in horses. I although I preferred second one.

As you have PMed me your budget and requirements before, I know I keep going on about it but I think you would find better horses for your money at Rumer. And they would defiantly have more potential than those two.

Sorry to be so blunt.


No I appreciate your opinion. What is it exactly you don't like about him?
Rumer does look like a fantastic stud, its just quite a way away and we are exploring the closer options first.

Just to add, I tried Bella also a Rumer before I brought Heart and she was amazing, the description just doesn't do her justice, if I hadn't of brought heart I probably would have brought her!

http://www.rumerstud.com/horsesforsale.php?idx=6

She looks lovely, but she's a bit small. I'm ideally looking for something around the 16hh mark.

If this second viewing doesn't go well, I'll definately give Rumer a ring :)

[beating_hooves]

number 3 looks nice, also like number 2 lots of scope. number 3 (and i dont know much) but his canter looked quite jolty? not sure if its him excited and you holding back but didnt look like hes flowing well?

Yeah she had quite a short canter, it didn't feel quite right. She was okay until she say the jumps, so I'd say she was just excited!

[Bangers & Mash]

No I appreciate your opinion. What is it exactly you don't like about him?

I know I'm contradicting myself now but it's not that I hate it, but I just don't like it either, when your after a new horse you just know as soon as it comes out the stable that its the one 'love at first sight' if you like.

But perhaps I'm being narrow minded they both seemed a bit common to my eyes. Does that make sense? And in my opinion even at a young age like that bay if it had good potential you would see it by now, but I just see the average, heavy footed, everyday horse, not that I'm knocking that if that's what you want.

[L34NN3]

But perhaps I'm being narrow minded they both seemed a bit common to my eyes. Does that make sense? And in my opinion even at a young age like that bay if it had good potential you would see it by now, but I just see the average, heavy footed, everyday horse, not that I'm knocking that if that's what you want.

That seems a bit unkind... Maybe this horse is in the OPs budget and a fancy "posh" horse isn't? The horses you have listed aren't 4yo so of course you would expect them to jump better - and have a bigger price tag ;)

[rtk]

To be honest I half expected this after your other thread

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2387193#post2387193

The horse might be perfect for you but IMHO you have done what thousands of us have done before. Been persuaded into visiting a dealer "just to see" and fallen in love with one.

Dealers count on this happening, once they get you through the gate they have a very good chance of it happening.

I really hope the horse is what you want, I thought he wasn't 100% sound as well but could be mistaken.

Before you make up your mind, go back to your original criteria and see if he really is what you wanted before the heart started to rule the head.

Also are you experienced enough for a 4 year old, the terrible teenage years are still to come. Not getting at you just dont know your history.

[beating_hooves]

To be honest I half expected this after your other thread

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2387193#post2387193

The horse might be perfect for you but IMHO you have done what thousands of us have done before. Been persuaded into visiting a dealer "just to see" and fallen in love with one.

Dealers count on this happening, once they get you through the gate they have a very good chance of it happening.

I really hope the horse is what you want, I thought he wasn't 100% sound as well but could be mistaken.

Before you make up your mind, go back to your original criteria and see if he really is what you wanted before the heart started to rule the head.

Also are you experienced enough for a 4 year old, the terrible teenage years are still to come. Not getting at you just dont know your history.

Perhaps you're right, I am in two mindsets about this horse.

I loved riding him and felt he had good potential. He is the exact colour, temperament, gender, and height I am looking for.

But like you mention, its his age thats the factor. Its not that I don't feel I can bring him on, I did that with Cherry, its just not what I set out to buy. I wanted something older so that I could event to a higher level then I am at currently hopefully within the next year or two. But all the horses I see that fit the criteria and look to have potential to event at a high level are out of our budget.

So I am thinking maybe this horse has huge potential, and its because he is so young that we can afford him, just.

Hmmm lots to think about I guess...

[Jenbee]

Just remember once he's muscled up and hit 6 he may turn into a bolshy stroppy opinionated git! Q was a delight at 4 and a pain at 5!!

My mare was exactly the same :rolleyes::p
She was an absolute angel as a baby and then she started to test me out lol

x

[Bangers & Mash]

That seems a bit unkind... Maybe this horse is in the OPs budget and a fancy "posh" horse isn't? The horses you have listed aren't 4yo so of course you would expect them to jump better - and have a bigger price tag ;)

Not really, I have actually been speaking to BH in some depth and I know what type of horse and roughly what her budget is. And having been to rumer stud plus private sellers when I was looking to buy a horse with a similar amount of money and looking for vertiually the same type/height/age/sex/capabilities I tried a lot of pretty decent horses before I brought heart.

Perhaps I was a little too blunt in the way I said that but I am not going to say 'unkind' things for the sake of it.

But just be on the safe side beating hooves please tell me to shut up if I say something out of turn LOL.

[Dooley]

So I am thinking maybe this horse has huge potential, and its because he is so young that we can afford him, just.



Have watched the vid again and definitely think he looks unsound. Another reason why he's affordable possibly? Do be careful!

[beating_hooves]

Have watched the vid again and definitely think he looks unsound. Another reason why he's affordable possibly? Do be careful!

Yeah other people have mentioned that, and I can see it myself. He definately didn't feel unsound but i'll check his legs for splints, swellind, heat etc.

And of course we won't purchase without a vetting :)

[rtk]

And just to prove that I really am talking from experience









I wanted a cute little coloured Shetland like those Wally has to show in hand. About all I can keep up with these days.













And this is what I bought







Wait for it, the biggest Shetland you will ever see :D:D:D







At the time was 15.3hh unhandled (not even halter broken) half starved and I felt sorry for her








Now 16.2 and still growing









http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/rockiesmum/eldwickjuly2009012.jpg

[Dooley]

Yeah other people have mentioned that, and I can see it myself. He definately didn't feel unsound but i'll check his legs for splints, swellind, heat etc.

And of course we won't purchase without a vetting :)

A lot of lameness causes can not be felt/seen with the naked eye.

Have them trot him up for you in hand - including on hard ground on a tight circle if you go and see him again. Might well save you the vetting fees.

[Innocence]

So what happened with Ronald? Sure your 2nd viewing was today or have i missed a post somewhere? :)

[cocopops]

so have you decided??? we are all waiting to hear!

[beating_hooves]

Yep viewed him for the second time today!

I rode him and jumped him again. He was just as fantastic as last time, if not better :)
I took him out on a very busy road with lorries, vans etc. and he was as good as gold, you could never guess he was only 4. Of course he was babyish, but sensible enough :)

The lady told us information about his parents and grandparents and I must say, pretty impressive! We had some time alone with him and I had a serious chat with my mum about the time and commitment I will need to put in, which I am more than willing to do.

So subject to vetting....he is mine!! :D

Will need to get him all kitted out cos he comes with nothing, robinsons sale come at a good time ;)

I know a couple of you had concerns about his soundness, but if its that obvious the vet will pick up on it. Oh and we are having our own vet, not one of her local ones :)

So be prepared for plenty of updates from me and Ronnie!

[Bangers & Mash]

Yep viewed him for the second time today!

I rode him and jumped him again. He was just as fantastic as last time, if not better :)
I took him out on a very busy road with lorries, vans etc. and he was as good as gold, you could never guess he was only 4. Of course he was babyish, but sensible enough :)

The lady told us information about his parents and grandparents and I must say, pretty impressive! We had some time alone with him and I had a serious chat with my mum about the time and commitment I will need to put in, which I am more than willing to do.

So subject to vetting....he is mine!! :D

Will need to get him all kitted out cos he comes with nothing, robinsons sale come at a good time ;)

I know a couple of you had concerns about his soundness, but if its that obvious the vet will pick up on it. Oh and we are having our own vet, not one of her local ones :)

So be prepared for plenty of updates from me and Ronnie!


Good luck :)

[beating_hooves]

Good luck :)

Thanks, and thankyou for your help with it all :)

[Method_Acting]

If you're after something to get out and do things now, then walk away and find something else :) There's plenty of nice 4 year olds, but there's plenty of nice horses who don't need bringing on and are already out competing.

He's nice but don't let your heart rule your head:)

[beating_hooves]

If you're after something to get out and do things now, then walk away and find something else :) There's plenty of nice 4 year olds, but there's plenty of nice horses who don't need bringing on and are already out competing.

He's nice but don't let your heart rule your head:)

You would be surprised how little horses we could found that fit our criteria and was within budget. I began to realise that I may have to get a younger horse and put some work in myself, so although he wasn't really what we were looking for, his age was 100% off the table. Don't worry I have thought long and hard about this and had numerous talks with my mum. I am 100% willing to commit to this horse, I promise :)

And its not as if I can't compete at all, I still have Cherry ;)

But I appreciate your concern, I really do :)

[Method_Acting]

Ohh I only saw the first page of this thread :eek: sorry!

It sounds like you've thought it through a lot. I don't doubt you're capable of bringing on a horse after cherry but I pressumed you were after a 'been there and done it' horse and I know how frustrating it is commiting yourself to something that isn't ready for what you're after :o But yeah it sounds like he'll be good for you and I know what its like trying to find a horse on any kind of reasonable budget without sacraficing something. He sounds LOVELY! congratulations :) good luck for the vetting... will look forward to updates :D

x

[Innocence]

Congrats, that's great news! Hope all goes well with the vetting :)

[mikh]

Yep viewed him for the second time today!

I rode him and jumped him again. He was just as fantastic as last time, if not better :)
I took him out on a very busy road with lorries, vans etc. and he was as good as gold, you could never guess he was only 4. Of course he was babyish, but sensible enough :)

The lady told us information about his parents and grandparents and I must say, pretty impressive! We had some time alone with him and I had a serious chat with my mum about the time and commitment I will need to put in, which I am more than willing to do.

So subject to vetting....he is mine!! :D

Will need to get him all kitted out cos he comes with nothing, robinsons sale come at a good time ;)

I know a couple of you had concerns about his soundness, but if its that obvious the vet will pick up on it. Oh and we are having our own vet, not one of her local ones :)

So be prepared for plenty of updates from me and Ronnie!

Really really thrilled for you, I think with a sane horse like that you can do so much. and sane horses command good prices, so even if he doesn't get to the level you'd like he will be very sell able! But I look forward to the updates!

[rtk]

Congratulations and good luck with the vetting

He is a lovely boy :D

It sounds like you have made a sensible decision, well thought out.

I know I sounded negative before but that was just because I know how easy it is to get carried away :rolleyes:

[beating_hooves]

Congratulations and good luck with the vetting

He is a lovely boy :D

It sounds like you have made a sensible decision, well thought out.

I know I sounded negative before but that was just because I know how easy it is to get carried away :rolleyes:

No you were completely right, it is so so easy to get carried away.

Thankyou very much, vetting will hopefully be before the weekend.

And I love your oversized shetland ;)

[xox stace xox]

this is a mega old post, but i tried bertie, want him sooo bad :(