Clicker..Parelli...join up... which one?

[bexj]

There is so much choice - each has their own pros's and cons as a novice...so which do you choose?

[galadriel]

I do what my horse tells me to do ;)

That is to say, I take what I need from where I need it--and most of my "natural horsemanship" training methods come from simply observing my horses, or from their backs "feeling" how they respond to what. It helps to look at them all; some have definitely expanded upon what my horses "told" me, some help explain why it works, and some offer ways to fine-tune what I was doing already.

[Miriam]

I would have loved to have done Parelli but unfortunately I have tolunge Rhi with two lung lines so that makes going through things a bit more difficult. I have done some clicker training with her which has worked wonders.

[Esther.D]

I do the same as Galadriel - pick and choose and see what works with each horse. I have been doing Parelli with Rupert and have had brilliant results, but sometimes it does depend on the horse's personality which method suits. I have found join-up methods particularly useful with pushy horses as you can send them out of your space if they get bargy...but it is no good with aggressive ones (not that any of mine are). Clicker training seems to be good for solving particular problems and good with older horses who are experienced and don't need to start from scratch.
Umm I'm afraid this is not much help!

[Peace]

bexj: I know what you mean - all these methods have their drawbacks, especially for the novice (like me).

Clicker training I've used with my dogs for years, but I have a mouthy horse and my instructor strongly advises against handfeeding. She says this is one of the reasons he became mouthy in the first place.

I've read that, with join up, the trainer has to know what she's doing, otherwise she's liable to miss signs that the horse is asking for direction and end up with a confused and frustrated critter. Since I have no one to instruct me, I've crossed this one off my list - also because I have a very lazy horse who would probably just look at me and reply "You want me to run? In circles? I'll just stand here until you get over this idea.":rolleyes:

I've read over the Parelli seven games on some websites, but the Parelli packs are all way over my budget right now!

So I pretty much train my horse as if he were one of the dogs, and when we get to something where "dog methods" don't work, he usually lets me know and we try something else.:) Like the time I discovered that bending down, patting one's knees, and making high-pitched encouraging noises will *not* make the horse want to come to you.:o

[Kerry's Partner]

My first question would be WHY do you want to choose? In other words what is it you want to achieve??

Hope this helps you to choose.

[virtuallyhorses]

Very good question KP :) Plus you don't have to choose straight away (or at all come to that).

The principles are all very similar - pressure, reward for any effort, keep your cool, be clear in what you want....etc etc You need to start with some sort of exercise to see what its like prior to 'deciding'. Reading the exercises and doing them are quite different - when you are performing groundwork you have to recognise and practice your body movements and placement, make sure your energy levels are in the right place (that sounds airey fairey but I mean you can't be really high energy and then expect your horse to be really mellow).

So pick one and try it - Its not like your horse is going to get confused "Oh my god she was doing Parelli last week and now she's got a clicker I think I'll faint" :D ;) its just training to him.

Peace, I like the calling idea but you're right it doesn't really translate to horse :D BTW If you want really good exercises for round pen\join up whatever you want to call it go to ponyboy.com join up as a member and download the exercise sheets, they're very clear. I suspect you would err on the side of caution anyway so don't worry too much about the 'confusion' bit - All horses know this game really well, so if you stuff it up it'll give your horse a good chuckle but that's all :)

[janet hakeney]

My hot Lusitano stallion who is used for display work wearing a bouble bridle and bullfighting saddle has been transformed by doing Parelli work and being ridden in a rope halter.

While I agree the Parelli packs seem expensive you can join the Savvy (god I still hate that word) Club and pay each month which gives you your first pack free and access to on-line help and advice. If you pass your level 1 (which you can do by sending them a video of you doing the tasks) they will send you a level 2 pack for no charge...and ditto again for the level 3.

You have to look past the 'Yankee' style delivery....he can't help being a Yank after all....if you can, you will find some very sound horsemanship lessons set out in a logical and progressive programme.

[Esther.D]

Like the time I discovered that bending down, patting one's knees, and making high-pitched encouraging noises will *not* make the horse want to come to you.

It works if you have a shetland...but then I am sure they are half dog anyway;) Mine know 'come' and 'stay' and 'drop' (when they have stolen something) as well as all the usual horsey stuff:D

[Wally]

ALL OF THEM!

Read them all, take on board what they are saying, then as Janet says look past the showmanship and the salesman and make it your own. Mix it with common sense and the knowledge you have of your horse and away you go.

Once you understand how a horse thinks and is motivated the sky is the limit.

There is no right and wrong way with horses, there is a safe way and an effective way, and a dangerous way and a harmful way. You will know once you have read and understood where all these guys are coming from.

I too cannot abide the word" savvy" neither can I tollerate the Parelli-isms. I think he is basically a good bloke though with his ideas. Same with Monty, take the bits which work and discard what you don't feel 100% happy with.

[Sammys Mum]

Why not try all of them. I always like to have all my horses I handle well and truly Joined up as I find it is just a better way to have them but I also find clicker training useful for different things.

[Peace]

Mine know 'come' and 'stay' and 'drop' (when they have stolen something)

Esther - I'm sure you don't mean little shelties would steal!:eek: :)

That's very cute of them. Unfortunately, when I tried that maneuver with Quanah, I got a look that said, "I wonder what's causing her to have this spasm? Hope it's not contagious.":rolleyes:

[Kerry's Partner]

I still think a lot depends on why you want to look!!!

Anyway, there are others which is why I've mentioned Mike Peace in my heading.

[Wally]

Yup, Mike Peace does put things across without making you wince at buzz words and phrases you wish he hadn't used. Perhaps it's because he's from this side of the pond and not so showy and pleased with himself!

His book is a really good read.

[bexj]

Thanks again for th good advice. I think I was basically worried about confusing the different styles, but I can now see how a combination of stuff will work too. I might just go and read Mike Peace's book now as its sitting on the coffee table downstairs!

Thanks everyone!

[galadriel]

Hey, hey, now...Parelli's style turns off a lot of "Yanks" too.

Good luck with developing your own style, Bex :)

[Kerry's Partner]

Mike Peace (I'm going on again I'm sorry) - but I just wanted you to know that all of the principles are NOT the same!!!!!!!!!

"Second by second" - I haven't yet heard anyone mention this on the NH section of NR. I think this is a VERY important principle (for your horse!!!!!!!!!!).

[FreedomStar]

I know i'm a bit late, but why can't you use all of them? With Taylor, the horse my friends and I are working with, I've started with join-up and it is working wonderfully. So far I've only had the chance to work 2 sessions on her, but did join-up both times and it worked beautifully, she was trusting me, everything. I'm thinking of finding my backissues of young rider (each issue has some parelli exercise or one of the 7 games) and starting with those. Also, clicker training would come in use, to let the horse know when they've done something good.

[Evol_or_revert]

I would LOVE to learn Parelli, And love to do join up. But I don't have a round pen or any of the nessecary equipment and don't know how i can even learn it.

BUT Im going to clicker train my horse :D I have the book and i have the clicker So now I just got to find time :D To me this seems the easyist one that i can start with due to the money and facitiles i don't have

[Kay101]

I know clicker and parelli, but I don't seem to remember the join up? How do you do it?

[virtuallyhorses]

Hi Evol, you don't need a round pen to do 'roundpen' (join up) work. Any space will do, if you have a smallish (20-40 metre) square yard or arena or can create an area using tape then this is all you need. You can do join-up\roundpen in larger areas but you have to be fitter :) and it will take a little longer.

I'm going to make some videos\photos of my work with Imp for my website shortly - so that people can see that even ordinary, newbie owners without any special gear, expensive pens or fancy titles can work with their horses :) I'll post here when they're ready.

[Evol_or_revert]

Kewl virtuallyhorses I didn't know that (really must try it one day). I don't have any areans or small paddocks just a few hills lol we are really rugged over here.

[Kerry's Partner]

Some natural horsepeople use some of these things BUT........... their main messages have nothing at all to do with "things"!! Their messages are solely about "the horse"!!

They are not foolproof of course - but there again I don't believe any human being is.

However, the relationship/partnership with your horse is supreme imo - and some people can impart to you something about this and some people can enthuse you about gadgets!!!!!!!

If I had had to rely on a gadget to foster a meaningful relationship between myself and my children - where would that have ended (btw my kids are 27 and 25 years old now)?

Sandra

[FRED]

Which One?
'
:) For those of us new to horses its all a bit confusing.
I would do lots of research, even attend a proper training course, before attempting any. I have a great admiration for people who have spent a life time around horse and 'join up' just happens.
I will admit that Im keen on keeping the balance 50/50 , I think this is the best teacher of 'feel', in my experience's horses really do respect this.
From what I have studied about join up,im in hopes that people asses what their horse really needs, its a subject I find fascinating.
Have you ever watched horse being long reined, and wittnesed the amazing response from horse after, total trust in their handler :)
From what I have studied, the use of a round pen is more of a necesity in starting some horse and for advanced work where the horse needs a fresh start with 'humans':( because of 'humans', its my understanding that just about all specialist horse trainer will use a round pen, subject to the horses/trainers needs.

:)

[LizS]

Hi, you could try Positive Horse Magic with Ross and Heather Simpson. They do courses which are really great and you can also do distance learing. On round pens you need to be careful as they can really increase your horse's stress levels because they are being sent away and have no escape. Try clicker training I find it really works well. Your horse shouldn't try mugging you for food if you have targetted him/her properly to something like a cone first.

[Bebe]

Bit late to join the thread now but I mostly use clicker training. I have done some Parelli work, some Kelly Marks/Monty Roberts groundwork, freeschooling, etc.

I find I get the best results from clicker training, it helps me break things down into small steps and build on each step as we get it. My horse really enjoys the sessions too.

I'd probably do more Parelli work if my horse had specific problems, but she's very good mannered and when I did Parelli I found that we'd covered the 7 games work just in normal day to day handling. I wouldn't mind having a go at advancing past the 7 games but the parelli packs are way out of my budget.

[Sarah B]

Talking of the different types of 'Natural Horsemanship' does anyone have any opinions on the different type of halters / headcollars ie the Pirelli rope halter vs the Dually? Before I spend £40 on a Dually I would like to know if it is worth the money!!:D

[LizS]

Hi, I have both a Parelli halter and a Nungar Knots halter and I can't tell the difference. The Nungar Knots halter is cheaper than the Parelli one.

[Mazpup]

Take the bits you like from all of them, and leave the bits that don't work with your horse behind! The principles are pretty similar.... learning to 'bond' with your horse, and using positive rewards rather than punishment to help you horse to understand what you want from him/her.