he's startred to bite

[JennJ]

My 4 year old has recentlty started to bite when ihandle him prior to riding. I got the saddle fitter out to have a look and all is fine in that respect. He goes to bite the brush when i brush his face and neck and bit me when getting him in yesterday. He's very dominat and doesnt take kindly to been told what to do. He doesnt bite when he has hay or is pre occupied with the attention of other horses. I kind of get the impression he's pushing me out of his space and showing domince towards me after he's been riden he's different i can tack him up and brush him and its all ok. The stables only allows 2 horses per field and he's with an old horse who lets him do what he wants which isnt ideal. Any ideas would be apprichiated.

[summercandy]

It does sound like it could be a dominance issue.I would stick to using a rubber curry comb to brush him as this brush doesn't tickle the horse and is great for those with sensitive skin.Keep him tied up short so he can not reach around and grab you.When you get to his tickly spots where he tends to bite then you need to try and make it pleasant so as soon as you start to brush them give him a rub and a scratch where he enjoys it most to distract him.Use your elbow to meet his face when he turns to bite you as he can not bite your elbow and continue to brush ignoring the behaviour.Immediately he is facing the front and behaving himself then rub and scratch his favourite place as a reward for the good behaviour.

[puzzles]

I would ignore the behaviour. As your horse is young, playful & still learning, it appears that he may not understand where he stands with you. This doesn't mean that he is trying to "dominate" you or push you around, but if you don't set boundaries and teach him to respect your personal space - both when grooming, leading and general handling - then he will not know any better than to walk into you. This is in your hands to change. Are they genuine, reactive bites to something you are doing, or little nips? It is likely that he is merely playing, so I would just ignore them. If your young, perhaps a bit bored, playful & active-minded horse learns that biting achieves attention & energy from you - even in a negative form - then in his eyes that will be better than nothing and you will be reinforcing the behaviour. With no reward, the behaviour should diminish. Make sure that he has plenty to do and isn't standing around with nothing to do for long periods of time; i.e. by giving him hay, a lick, giving him something to think about such as picking up his hooves, asking him to yield tp pressure & by keeping grooming/handling sessions short. I would also recommend some groundwork teaching your horse to respect your space as it seems that he may think you haven't earned his respect yet!

x

[Lobelia Overhill]

my horse has started nipping at me when I'm grooming him - the other day I left my grooming kit inside the stable door, and he started playing with it (it's in a bag, which was closed!) and he left me alone!! I think I might try getting him a lickit or something to keep him occupied in future!

[LadyJennivieve]

To me, biting is a serious issue. Given the attitude that is being exuded in the slapping thread, I'll be careful with what I say. If my horse reaches over to nip me when I'm leading, I'll wave the back of my hand in a flicking motion in the general direction of her face. If she goes to nip when I'm grooming (and this is a genuine teeth meet flesh nip, not when she's trying to groom back), I'll tend to cup my hand and then kill an imaginary fly on her neck. If she goes to nip when I'm trying to tighten her girth or get on, I use my elbow to push against her neck (this is literally a push - no sarcasm in this sentence) as leverage so she can't actually reach me.

When leading, she'll sometimes try and walk right over me especially when her feed is waiting in her paddock. I try and push her shoulder over with my hand, which has been working now that my lessons are all about inside leg to outside hand.

[Trio]

my 5 year old started this and its something you have to stop immediately if you can, fine if they bite you- your horse after all but archie nipped a few other people and that is not on at all. if he goes to nip i shout and wave arms around like a lunatic, if he carries on and makes contact then i say no firmly and if he does actually nip then i elbow him out the way and ignore him for a bit.
he does it the same as yours but i think in his case its more of a playful thing as most times he just grabs clothing and holds it in his teeth and then when bored lets go.
if you think its a dominance issue then you need to nip it in the bud as when they get you it does really really hurt, they're alot stronger than us. he does need to be put in his place, if he was with a dominant horse then they wouldnt be so gentle about asserting themselves, my older boy soon tells my youngster off when he oversteps the mark and he respects him.
you dont need to be voilent but you do need to stop it as it could lead to more aggressive behaviour.

When leading him, keep in front of him and keep your elbow up so if he goes to nip you have a block there and nudge him with it so he knows he cant do anything.
when grooming, again be aware - i dont think tying them up short helps as that doesnt teach him not to do it and when he's got the head room he'll start again, be loud and cross when he goes to nip you so he understands its not acceptable.

hope you get it sorted, we're still working on it but my youngster doesnt do it with me anymore and trying to teach him not to nip anyone else as well now.

[georgie0]

Have to say, and this will be VERY unpopular, if my horses have ever started biting as away of asserting dominance they get very firmy told off and put in their place. Softly softly is all very well and good but this is a safety issue and next time it could be a child they bite. If i have to, a good firm slap and a stern 'NO' seems to do the trick. And i can't imagine a dominant mare in a herd being anything other than very stern, can you!?
But then, my horse is very likely very unhappy and i am cruel to him. :rolleyes:

[Francis Burton]

if you think its a dominance issue
How do people tell if aggression is linked to dominance, or is due to something else?

[laupip]

I agree with a little smack. my friends horse is always trying to nip at her and bite his lead rope etc but when she goes on holiday for a week and I look after him I give him a sharp tap on the nose when he tries it and after a couple of attempts he gives up and barely tries again for the rest of the week! (YES, she knows I do it!!) One of my mares can tend to be a bit nippy when she is in season and she gets the same treatment. As someone else said the dominant horse in a herd wouldn't put up with it. He is probaly just testing the boundaries as he is young.

[Kit]

If he threatens to bite, you need to square up and send him to the end of the lead rope, or stable etc.
If he actually makes contact, a slap on the nose(note-slap, i.e open palm and just enough to make a noise) is imo the way to deal with that. bad behaviour has consequences.

[Peace]

Well, it doesn't really matter why he's biting, right? The important thing is how to stop him.:)

One thing that I bet will not work: smacking him. He's a young horse, and I doubt you're going to be able to hit him hard enough and fast enough to scare him or hurt him. If he's like my Quanah, he will decide you are consenting to play bitey-horse-games. In fact, the only people Quanah continues to nip are people who smack him for it.

I find it's easier not to let the bite/nip happen in the first place. Keep your eye on him when leading - if he goes to bite, interpose your elbow, or stick a brush or something equally unpleasant to bite into his face. Don't let him make first contact!

When you see the first indication he's going to try a nip - yell! Loudly! Turn to face him and look him in the eye - if you need to, raise your arms and move into him to back him off you a bit.

Of course, when tacking up/grooming, you can't keep your eye on him all the time, so you need to secure his head so he can't bite you. Anytime he makes contact with you, he's received his reward - so it's important to prevent his making contact in the first place.

With young horses, I find it helpful to rub their noses and lips with my hands. Pretty vigorously. I don't know why this works, but it does. You must make the first move, though - don't do it right after an attempted nip or you will be rewarding the nippy behaviour.

[capalldubh]

Agree completely with Peace :)

If you are absolutely sure he is not biting due to fear-aggression, but more in play, you can apply the "mad lady" tactic. This is totally non-aggressive - you do not need to hit or even gesture towards your horse. You simply have a massive tantrum. You stamp the ground, you wail, you toss your head, you jump up and down. You don't move towards the horse or attempt to chase him away or interact at all.

Provided he's not nipping or biting out of fear or pain, he will start back, look at you in horror, and decide it is very much wiser to have a nice, sane, calm handler than one who is throwing all their toys out of the pram.

Unfortunately, most people aren't very good at distinguishing playful nips from fearful nips, so do use this technique with caution. Any aggressive or over the top response to fear/pain biting will certainly make the situation worse.

ETA - the reason most people don't use this approach is that it is not only the horse who considers you to be mad ;)

[notpoodle]

the 2 year old im loaning sometimes bares teeth if she doesnt fancy getting out of the way or doing something. not malicious by any stretch of the imagination, more a case of 'you cant make me! ner ner ner!'. i have either ignored or, if she got too close, tapped her on the nose and chased her off with a loud noisy growl. also do clicker training and she is getting the hang of the fact that good things only come to those to respect people's space and dont excitedly try to leap onto peoples laps!

[Melting Moments]

Just be firm, don't be scared he will feel you vibes.

It could be down to teething?

[puzzles]

Well, it doesn't really matter why he's biting, right? The important thing is how to stop him.:) it right after an attempted nip or you will be rewarding the nippy behaviour.

Really? In my eyes, that is the most important factor. If he is nipping because he's playing, then the handler need not take it as seriously and can turn into the infamous "Mad Lady" as suggested by capalldubh. However if the horse is biting out of defense because he feels threatened, and they are meaningful bites, then the handler needs to work on developing trust via a sympathetic training method, as the root cause is likely to be fear. Similarly, if the horse lacks respect for the handler then they need to work on establishing their role & setting clearer & more consistent boundaries. The horse may have had the fit of his tack checked, but is he has over-stretched a muscle, or associated girthing up with pain, or has bruised ribs, then would telling him off really be effective or fair? The root cause is everything!

I am always wary of punishing behaviours such as biting, as it can encourage sly biting when the handler's back is turned, and could also make the horse head or hand shy, particularly when done over a period of time. Again, it also tackles the symptom rather than the cause for the biting itself; so the horse may still feel the motivation to bite and this need may surface in other ways, such as barginess or becoming difficult to handle.

x

[Melting Moments]

Sorry jsut seen this comment, Peace it does matter, it could be pain related.

[Peace]

From the OP
My 4 year old has recentlty started to bite when ihandle him prior to riding. I got the saddle fitter out to have a look and all is fine in that respect. He goes to bite the brush when i brush his face and neck and bit me when getting him in yesterday. He's very dominat and doesnt take kindly to been told what to do. He doesnt bite when he has hay or is pre occupied with the attention of other horses. I kind of get the impression he's pushing me out of his space and showing domince towards me after he's been riden he's different i can tack him up and brush him and its all ok.

She's had his saddle fit and back checked. The OP describes him as "dominant" and says he's pushing her around. He's nipping as she brings him in from the field.

None of that says fear or pain to me.

Although, he is four. If the OP hasn't had his teeth checked, it'd be worth doing. Wolf teeth come in around five years of age.

But you know what? Even if my horse is afraid or in pain - he doesn't get to bite me. He can show his discomfort in other ways. Kicking, biting, etc are never an acceptable response. To anything. Biting will always result in a correction.

None of the corrections I suggested would be detrimental to a fearful horse or one in pain. Screaming, yelling, raising one's arms and backing the horse up will not freak the horse out as long as he has plenty of room and isn't cornered in a stall or somewhere restricted. Neither will a poke with an elbow or letting the horse run his bitey beak into a stiff brush. If he weren't invading my space, he wouldn't encounter the unpleasant poke.

[puzzles]

Fear, pain or defensivensss can easily be mistaken for dominance, and the horse's back isn't the only part of his body that is able to feel pain!

But you know what? Even if my horse is afraid or in pain - he doesn't get to bite me. He can show his discomfort in other ways. Kicking, biting, etc are never an acceptable response. To anything.

Why not? If my horse was unhappy about something or in pain, then I would want him to let me know. Horses cannot speak; the only way they can communicate how they feel is through body language. Particularly considering the age of the OP's horse, it might be worthwhile training in a more sympathetic & forgiving manner, perhaps ignoring the horse's mistakes & diverting his attention & energy into something positive to encourage good behaviour, instead of focusing on what he has done wrong. I don't know about anyone else, but I am not one to reprimand a horse for feeling upset about something. Even if the horse is being impatient - which is entirely possible in this case - showing the horse what the handler wants him to do, through correction, may prove to be more effective at creating a willing, well behaved young horse.

x

[TEmily]

I am also going to be controversial and say a loud slap on the chest is the best way to deal with biting. Provided of course you are sure that he is not biting because of pain/because he is frightened of being ridden etc. You don't have to hit hard or cause real pain, just cup your hand to make the slap loud so it shocks him and shout a firm 'no'.

My y/o and trainer has 15 horses, mostly home bred. as soon as they are old enough to be handled regularly, if any of them ever tried to bite they were told off in this way, and I can honestly say she has the most well mannered group of horses you could ever hope to meet - I would happliy go into the stable with any of them without fear of being bitten. None of them are headshy or jumpy or nervous in any way btw.

[Shanik]

But you know what? Even if my horse is afraid or in pain - he doesn't get to bite me. He can show his discomfort in other ways. Kicking, biting, etc are never an acceptable response. To anything. Biting will always result in a correction.


I disagree. If a horse is in pain then I am afraid I would forgive because they are in 'pain'. I had a mare kick out twice at me when she was in pain with colic, I don't think a reprimand would have been appropriate considering she was in agony. Sometimes when a horse feels pain or discomfort, kicking out or similiar behaviour can be the only way that they can react to let you know something is wrong.

I have a mare who will nip, I have learned to read her well, I can now judge when she is 'thinking' about it and the split second she moves to react, she is corrected and firmly told 'no'.

[Francis Burton]

What's motivating the horse to bite (or attempt to bite) is critically important in determining an effective response, in my view. The horse's temperament is important too. That mean no one fixed reaction will be the best for all horses and situations.

As Peace said, smacking can actually encourage nipping - especially in colts who may well see a person's attempt to make contact with their hand as a personal challenge to be countered. However, if you are intent on smacking, go for the chest as TEmily suggests - otherwise you risk making the horse headshy.

I strongly agree with Puzzles that tackling the motivation to bite is preferable to only dealing with the symptoms.

Dealing with biting aggressively can work, but don't be surprised if aggression escalates.

Blocking may be the best solution when grooming.

Many horses don't take kindly to been told what to do. I don't think that necessarily has anything to do with dominance. Even if it does, though, there are usually different ways of asking for what you want, including exercising some patience and persistence until you get the desired result. Quiet often trumps loudly assertive.

[katzeyez]

As I'm typing this with one hand due to my other one being twice it's normal size having encountered teeth I am looking for suggestions....

11 year old big horse, very dominant towards other horses, perfectly fine with people if there are no other horses about.

Problem - people and other horses in the same place. He bit me today brining him in from the field as another horse walked up to say hello to me. He's caught someone else when he was being held on the yard and the other horse was brought out from the stable. Both occasions have drawn blood so he really isn't 'playing' in any way.

We've only had him a few months. We know he received an awful lot of treats in his old home and 'didn't like that horse very much' to the point that they pulled the top partion across before leading him out (american barn style - sort of, not all that wide gangway)

Now today I know that I shouldn't have taken my attention off him for a second, which is why I didn't catch him before he caught me, but it's not a good situation for horse and handler to be in.

No idea on how to deal with the underlying causes...he got a smack for the bite today. Suggestions welcome and gratefully received!

[Peace]

katzeyez - I think your post illustrates the difference between "coltish" nipping (which is what I believe the OP's horse is doing, based on her description) and actual biting, which from your post is what your horse is doing. I hope your hand feels better soon.

I think you are the victim of misplaced aggression - sounds like the horse is going for another horse and either getting you by mistake or just taking his feelings towards the other horse out on you - but this can be a very dangerous situation. When a human enters the pasture, all the horses should move down one rung in the hierarchy - I don't think your boy got that memo, though.

If I were in your place, I'd probably send the beast back where he came from, cause I no longer have the patience to deal with those kinds of issues. But if I were going to keep him, I'd stop turning him out with other horses until I found a way to get his respect - cause getting in the middle of a horse scuffle can get you badly hurt or worse.

Good luck.

[Tracy1]

Been reading this thread with interest my 16 yr old mare has started trying to bite, first it was when girthing her up, because of her pelvis problems and the fact she was kicked quite badly in her left shoulder a few weeks ago, I thought it could be a pain issue, BUT last week or so if she has had to be rugged because of the monsson season (waterproof) shes started to try and bite when fastening the buckles on the front, now this morning and I belive shes in season as I was picking a front foot up to pick out she turned round like snap dragon that isnt on shes literally taking the pee now, so yup she got yelled at, backed out of my space and I glared at her, I have for weeks tried ignoring this beahviour as I thought it was pain related but no its a dominace thing I fear as I had he locked in her field shelter this morning and she wanted back out to see the old mare in the adjoining field, and was letting me know if whateva way she could ie the biting that is what she wanted well shes out there 24/7 with the old girl and biting is certainly not acceptable as its getting worse