Im so upset/frustrated...PLEASE help me

[Barney9]

grr...im truelly fed up/sad :mad:

I went to blenheim for the PC thing today...
warmed up really well with neil spratt, got him going nicely, had to wait a bit, jumped him over a few fences and went in. He jumped the first nicely, got a bit strong turning back on myself to the 2nd! hopped over the upright at 3, and came to 4 a spread aand just said no. took him round again, and hopped over ok, ran on a bit downt he hill to 5, cleared though, turned back on myself to 6 a spread and was fine, turned right to 7a, and he just didnt want to jump it- it was a spread...
This summer hes been on and off this summer, one minute he wont jump spreads at all, the next ehs fine. all the fences hes ever refused at are spreads....tells you somethign doesnt it- he doesnt want to stretch for it....

Heres some background info. on him:
Hes now 14, ISH. Healthy and happy...passed a 5 stage vetting 2 1/2 years ago with flying colours- we had the GB event vet out and he said he was one of the only horses he had found with absolutley nothing wrong with him....

As a 4 year old, he was excessivly jumped in Ireland- you know the usual, ill try and win as much money as possible then sell to England...sold to a guy in Cardiff, they did BSJA on him for 5 months- won £500 in that time, sold him on. Previous owner did hardly anything with him, bit of PC, this and that...i bought him, evented him by first season, then last october BSJAed him, was all great for the first couple of times, then his back was out, fixed that, had a few days off, then built him slowly back up. It then all went wrong, he started to stop at spreads, especially if it was 2 rounds and he jumped it in first round badly....confidence issue? no- i took him back to basics, got his canter perfect- couldnt get it better. did some small things on him, all good- tried again and he jsut said no. he wasnt jumping the spreads. took a bit of time out, did some smaller eventing and was fine, but then it happened again. took some mroe time out, tried again and was fine, and now today hes done it again :(

I think i have a few options:
a) sell him as a happy hack/low level comp. horse and buy a youngster, not exactly what i want to do as i know hes an amazing horse i just dont know whats wrong
b)keep him as a hunter for me as a second horse/for my dad and buy a youngster with limited funds.
c)take him right back to basics and just do low level stuff over the winter and build it slowly up again.
d) something else? any ideas?

obviously im going to get his back checked. He did have it out, but it could be out again as i have done work experience with an osteopath and he showed me a few things, and when i run my hands down his bum, to stretch his back muscles, he blocks it about half way along his back....teeth have been done farily recently....saddle is fine, might also get the vet out just to check his joints etc. as it could possibly be something like that which causes him not to want to stretch over the fences.

Any tips, ideas, exercises,help all very much appreciated! however silly you think they are, im willing to try anything as this horse is very speacial to me and i dont want to give up..i dont give up and i wont with him unless theres something truelly wrong with him....:/

[tazzybear]

Sorry to hear about the problems you're having. If his back was out before it could well be causing him problems again so I would definately get that looked into first. You sound like you've done the right thing with him by bringing him back to basics etc. Could it be phsycological? Maybe it could be the fear of his back hurting him that's stopping him? Just an idea.
Hope you find a solution as you obviousley care about him.

[Barney9]

Sorry to hear about the problems you're having. If his back was out before it could well be causing him problems again so I would definately get that looked into first. You sound like you've done the right thing with him by bringing him back to basics etc. Could it be phsycological? Maybe it could be the fear of his back hurting him that's stopping him? Just an idea.
Hope you find a solution as you obviousley care about him.

i think it could be psychological...possibly a trust/confidence issue...its not the first time ive had a horse the psychological issues, my last pony was very very badly beatan etc...it took me about 3 years to correct that...the problem is hes not the type of horse who stops 2 strides out, he stops at the last minute possible and because he takes you into the fence (he still needs riding but...) its very hard to know when hes stopping or going! i just want him to be right,i am getting an osteopath out again so i hope that it is tha tin a way as then i can work on that easily...if its in his head thats a whole different thing, and i know i can sort it out- ive done it at the age of 10 so why not now, but it just takes so much tears and heart ache...
thanks though :)

[posie]

you're going down the route i'd go down :) back checked - i'd be inclined to have saddle checked again just to make sure (perhaps by a different saddler) then if still happening vet.
after that - if all is checked and he's still doing it then IMHO i'd sell as a hack etc as it sounds to me like you're wanting to get out and do more.

ETA - if it does turn out psychological - does he do it at xc spreads? or just Sj spreads?

[lottie.dot]

Whoever you get out, always get a second opinion as peace of mind...

Also, edited to say, what about doing some pairs xc or something and see he is 'mentally' happier following something else? This way you might be able to tell if it's a confidence thing.

Lastly why not try and get someone such a reiki person out and see if they can feel any tension somewhere??

What did your instructor say (Neil Spratt) about his performance??

Goodluck.x

[Barney9]

you're going down the route i'd go down :) back checked - i'd be inclined to have saddle checked again just to make sure (perhaps by a different saddler) then if still happening vet.
after that - if all is checked and he's still doing it then IMHO i'd sell as a hack etc as it sounds to me like you're wanting to get out and do more.

ETA - if it does turn out psychological - does he do it at xc spreads? or just Sj spreads?

Nope, just SJ- which in a way is odd, as XC fences are more solid. He is the most amazing horse XCm he is technically amazing and so good- will jump absolutley anything. Ive led the hunt over a 5ft hedge, which had a ditch infront and behind and he just doesnt think about it...but the odd thing is, when i got him he had never done XC before....i think its memories..something went wrong, somewhere....

Ive spoken to the girl who used to ride him in Ireland, she said he was grumpy and had a nasty stop- so very different from the horse he is today. Yes he has a stop, but hes not grumpy at all. I have an awful feeling they did things to get him to jump as the guy he was owned by had a heck of a lot of horses and is known to do that...he tucks his legs very very high and is always very suspicous of people near fences...maybe a memory?

[Barney9]

Whoever you get out, always get a second opinion as peace of mind...

Goodluck.x

Yeah, i have stuart Mcgregor for his back and also his parnter coming out- Stuart basically created what osteopathy is today, so is very very good, as is his buisness partner...
Im going to get a vet out, sadly we used to have John killingbeck who is now retired, but our curent vets are all good...so will get them out aswell if back is fine...

[posie]

ah ok - if he's doing it sj only then i'd def say mental.... esp if he still flies over the xc course/out hunting still....
and from your description sounds like he's been racked :(
just a thought - but have you heard of jx - sj type fences round a xc course..... maybe stop the sj'ing for the mo and give him a total break from it - then start again by doing a bit of jx first so he gets the confidence to jump poles but in an environment he's happy in? they have spreads etc - maybe different enough for him to allow to build his confidence back up with the pole spreads - but near enough to sjing that once it is built back up you can try the transition again to sj'ing....
feel free to ignore me though ;)

[lottie.dot]

Hi Sorry, Just cross posted you. So xc he is fine and it's just showjumping. Well has anything happened for him to get a bit stressed out or something? i.e in the timeline you.

Also, what about following a friend over some jumps in the school then and see how he goes. The thing is, unless you can decide whether or not it's pain or in his head... It's tricky for the both of you to progress unles you know what you really need to be working on.

Also, what about loose jumping? How does he tackle spreads then?

(if I were you, if you do think it's in his head, I would have a sit down and do some research and basically have a think ''outside'' the box and what things you can try i.e if you have been down the normal route maybe something a bit different might be the key)

Just saw what Posie said and JumpCross is a wonderful idea...

[Barney9]

ah ok - if he's doing it sj only then i'd def say mental.... esp if he still flies over the xc course/out hunting still....
and from your description sounds like he's been racked :(
just a thought - but have you heard of jx - sj type fences round a xc course..... maybe stop the sj'ing for the mo and give him a total break from it - then start again by doing a bit of jx first so he gets the confidence to jump poles but in an environment he's happy in? they have spreads etc - maybe different enough for him to allow to build his confidence back up with the pole spreads - but near enough to sjing that once it is built back up you can try the transition again to sj'ing....
feel free to ignore me though ;)


yeah...i have a feeling that something like that has happened, as when there are people by the fences he gets really nervy and sort of pings right over it :(
I think the jumpcross is a REALLY good idea :D but i dont know anywhere near me that does it :( but i will try and find somewhere- is there a website or something?

[Barney9]

Hi Sorry, Just cross posted you. So xc he is fine and it's just showjumping. Well has anything happened for him to get a bit stressed out or something? i.e in the timeline you.

Also, what about following a friend over some jumps in the school then and see how he goes. The thing is, unless you can decide whether or not it's pain or in his head... It's tricky for the both of you to progress unles you know what you really need to be working on.

Also, what about loose jumping? How does he tackle spreads then?

(if I were you, if you do think it's in his head, I would have a sit down and do some research and basically have a think ''outside'' the box and what things you can try i.e if you have been down the normal route maybe something a bit different might be the key)

Just saw what Posie said and JumpCross is a wonderful idea...


Nothing i can think of to upset him- BUT i think that it could have been way back in feb. when i fell off him in the practice ring, really since then its been downhill, ive fallen off twice since then jumping so possibly could be that? maybe he thinks im going to leave him when hes scared? is there anything i can do to help this?

Following a friend is truelly not an optin- he just hates to be behind, gets really annoyed and wants to race!

Ive tried to loose school him but he doesnt realy "get" it, he kinda just looks at teh fene going whatttt?? he just doesnt really know what to do as i dont think hes ever done ti before!

Im trying to think of other ways to go about it, i think the jump cross is a FAB idea! but need to fine a venue!

The thing is i dont want to give up on him...i really dont want to have to sell him, hes the only thing that i have from my gran now shes died and he just means so so much to me...
keep the suggestions coming!

[posie]

yeah...i have a feeling that something like that has happened, as when there are people by the fences he gets really nervy and sort of pings right over it :(
I think the jumpcross is a REALLY good idea :D but i dont know anywhere near me that does it :( but i will try and find somewhere- is there a website or something?

http://www.jumpcross.com/ :cool:
another thing that crossed my mind too is that no matter how in control of your feelings you are you'll still have a niggling doubt when riding into a sj spread - whereas you sounds more than happy and confident to jump anything xc and out hunting - so jx you jump basically like xc so you'll be able to have more confidence in it which will also help him :)

[Barney9]

http://www.jumpcross.com/ :cool:
another thing that crossed my mind too is that no matter how in control of your feelings you are you'll still have a niggling doubt when riding into a sj spread - whereas you sounds more than happy and confident to jump anything xc and out hunting - so jx you jump basically like xc so you'll be able to have more confidence in it which will also help him :)

there is no where in the midlands!?! WTF :( thats annoying...im sure there must be a venue that has showjumps as XC fences...hmm...
ill get reseraching!

[posie]

there is no where in the midlands!?! WTF :( thats annoying...im sure there must be a venue that has showjumps as XC fences...hmm...
ill get reseraching!

oh that's crap!!! maybe phone jx and see if they've not got some coming on soon and not updated the website - i know more and more places are beginning to do it...good luck in your mission :cool:

ETA - a place with working hunter fences may work..... with a bit of jiggery pokery!!

[Barney9]

oh that's crap!!! maybe phone jx and see if they've not got some coming on soon and not updated the website - i know more and more places are beginning to do it...good luck in your mission :cool:

ETA - a place with working hunter fences may work..... with a bit of jiggery pokery!!

oo yeah thats what i was thinking of working hunter fences...
ill contact JX and then try and find some working hunter SJs/ comps. to do- most shows have them so i could do a few of them! thanks!

[posie]

good luck - keep us posted :)

ETA - remember to take it steady - i have a horse i was working on with remembered pain from saddle issues - the slightest thing can push her back over the edge. remember that imprinted pain - if that is what it is - takes a long time - if he's doing fine over jx or WH then keep going that few extra times till you're horribly bored of it - not just till he's started to jump 100% every time - before you approach the subject of sj'ing spreads again.... ;) again i'd say do this if it is a fear of loosing the rider/consequesnces of if the rider falls off too

[Barney9]

good luck - keep us posted :)

ETA - remember to take it steady - i have a horse i was working on with remembered pain from saddle issues - the slightest thing can push her back over the edge. remember that imprinted pain - if that is what it is - takes a long time - if he's doing fine over jx or WH then keep going that few extra times till you're horribly bored - not just till he's started to jump 100% every time - of it before you approach the subject of sj'ing spreads again.... ;)

yeah definietly! i geuss now that its winter that will be easier as i cant event etc...
ive got the back guy coming next week sometime, im going to talk to my instructor to see if she has any ideas and im just doing lost of research- not very succesfully but anyhow!
Im looking for lots of shows etc. so there will be WH and clear round jumping- by the end of this he will be laughing at me! making him jump 2.6ft!! oh well, itll be good for him!
thanks and will keep you posted :) :)

[Squeeley]

I'd just like to add - maybe get a physio to look at him too, as Osteo/Chiro wont always see the same as a physio.

My horse has had a some problems and a Physio has picked up some serious things that a Chiro does not look at.

[posie]

i'm doing the same with myself at the mo - so opposite way round - v honest horse but wimp of a rider (bad hunting falls etc) so i'm doing lots of tiny jumping so i get so bored of 2'6 i'll do anything to jump higher lol ;)

[Barney9]

I'd just like to add - maybe get a physio to look at him too, as Osteo/Chiro wont always see the same as a physio.

My horse has had a some problems and a Physio has picked up some serious things that a Chiro does not look at.

Thanks, will deffo. look into that! first though i need the osteopath as thats the skeletal, and if thats not right, working on the muscles is pointless! but will deffo. get a physio as well!

i'm doing the same with myself at the mo - so opposite way round - v honest horse but wimp of a rider (bad hunting falls etc) so i'm doing lots of tiny jumping so i get so bored of 2'6 i'll do anything to jump higher lol ;)

LOL wanna swap horses? and then swap back! good luck :)

[lottie.dot]

Nothing i can think of to upset him- BUT i think that it could have been way back in feb. when i fell off him in the practice ring, really since then its been downhill, ive fallen off twice since then jumping so possibly could be that? maybe he thinks im going to leave him when hes scared? is there anything i can do to help this?

Following a friend is truelly not an optin- he just hates to be behind, gets really annoyed and wants to race!

Ive tried to loose school him but he doesnt realy "get" it, he kinda just looks at teh fene going whatttt?? he just doesnt really know what to do as i dont think hes ever done ti before!

Im trying to think of other ways to go about it, i think the jump cross is a FAB idea! but need to fine a venue!

The thing is i dont want to give up on him...i really dont want to have to sell him, hes the only thing that i have from my gran now shes died and he just means so so much to me...
keep the suggestions coming!

Oh OK, so you have a 'lead horse' (yes, they don't do well following do they!)

Well, I would definitely recommend doing some loose jumping purely because it's 'No Pressure' for either of you. So whatever you might be feeling coming up to a spread, he wont have and whatever he might be feeling off of the rider will be gone. Give it another try, only this time send him around with just a pole and then another and then a cross pole ater the trotting poles, then put canter poles etc. I.E start at baby steps and make it fun for the both of you. When he get's the hang of it - then introduce the spread.

Also - Does he act any differnt if with the height? I mean what about doing the smallest jumps for a while (or does he just not respect them?) I would try and re-establish the fun in it for the both of you, so defo see about calling the JumpCross people up and demanding a venue near you (lol) why not try and do some makeshift jumps out on a hack (OK - it will be hard work, but then you have all to lose) and just have a play around with him. I know it's not everyones cup of tea, but why not do some groundwork games with him get a 112ft line and after doing some of the basic games get him following you on foot over some jumps and just mucking around... No pressure just fun and see how he goes then. And possibly the groundwork may install some more confidence in him with you - which can only be a good thing, especially as you said he seems quite worried if you fell off (he may have done something to chuck this trainer in the past and got a beating, especially as you think he's had the poles lifted whilst he's jumped, hardly a good association with the whole thing for him.



Best of luck.xxxx

[horseygal90]

I don't get why you'd sell him as a happy hacker if his only 'issue' is that he won't jump spreads - Happy hacker to me implies a horse that can't do anything but hack (which he can)...

Sorry, not really the point of the thread but it just popped into my head, lol.

[Kit]

definitely a vet check rather than osteo etc.. and if that shows nothing, I would take it he doesn't want to do the bigger jumps anymore.

[Flony_Pony]

I would say (as you and others) get his back etc checked out.

Then start small, with placing poles/grids, if he doesnt respect tiddly jumps make them big enough for him to jump, then keep repeating it until you can have various spreads within your grid to build up his confidence. Have a pole at every stride and gradually take them away....??

[Barney9]

i was considering selling him as a happy hacker as if he doesnt want to jump, why make him? its not fair on him...

Lottie.dot- ill give loose schooling another go, ill set up some barriers etc. i think the problem was i didnt have anything to run him down...ill do a few games with him etc...ill just make some stuff up! i know he really enjoys jumping as when he gets it right he alwasy puts in a little hop/buck thing and gets all happy with himself!! :D

Height doesnt really matter to him- hell jump a 2.9ft course the same as a 3.9ft couse...he gets a bit disresepectful when they get teeny though and will stop etc. There are a few showjumps up in a HUGE field, i might spread them out a bit so more like XC and jump them out hacking, so its more like XC...
i really dont mind putting in hard work- as long as it helps him :)

Kit- im going to get osteopath out as he has had a back problem before, and that was causing him to be stop, so possibly could be that again and as he has to reach, it just tweaks a bit too much- and he expects the pain...

Flony_pony- well deffo. try that, just build it up from scratch :)


Thanks everyone :) dont feel so awful about it all tomorow! im going to loose school him on monday and see how that goes and then start to build it back up! :D