Not a good day.....

[cookster1975]

I decided to try Basil with the Prokalm this morning to see if it would help with his separation anxiety/napping when going out solo.

Gave him a scoop at about 10.30 and then left him 20 mins or so. Thought by the time I got him in and groomed - tacked up etc, it may have kicked in. He stood good as gold to be tacked up, although it was quite hot so that may have had something to do with it.

I have to lock the gate and then mount from it, which took about 5 minutes as he wouldn't stand still. Anyway eventually got on and went off ok, so I'm thinking "great, this is gonna be fine". A tractor came round the corner and he was going a bit quick tbh which spooked him, so he reared and span round then, which was understandable. Calmed him down, let tractor past and carried on. By now, it's 11.40ish. Got to road at top of lane and he napped badly 2 or 3 times going along there, rearing, spinning, backing up etc, but I managed to keep him going. It was quite busy and I was so worried he was going to go into someone's car but luckily everyone was really good and waited for me to get him going forward. He then proceeded to leap, jog and canter on the spot until we got down the hill to meet my friend. This is all WITH the ProKalm.

Once he was with my friend's horse, he was fine. We had a nice ride. Then it came to her going her way and me going mine and he just flipped. It was really dangerous and whilst I would normally not give up, I ended up going back to her yard, while she put her horse out and then she led him for about 400 Yards and then gradually fell back behind him and we carried on.

We did make it home, but again, he pulled my arms out, jogged, leapt around and generally acted silly all the way home. I was almost in tears when I got home, I was so disappointed. I don't think it's helping that I'm in pain at the moment with a disc pressing on a nerve in my back.

I have to say I am now thinking, is it worth it? It is so dangerous, I have 2 children and am worried for them if anything happened to me. I'm not scared of him, just about what COULD happen. I love him to death though and riding with others he is fine. I am so confused.:confused:

Sorry it was so long and I salute you if you got to the end!!

[scottishterrier]

I don't know the full back story but do you think this is something that with time can be worked on or is he/has he always been this way?
at the end of the day only you can decide but i know that if i had tried everything and still wasnt feeling safe i couldnt have a horse that made things dangerous(also have two kids) x

[cookster1975]

Thank you for your reply - didn't think anyone would bother reading all the way through!

I've had him a year and he has been the same hacking on our own the whole time and tbh, because it is so not enjoyable, I haven't done it enough. I have spent loads of time working on trying to gain his trust though because he is a very anxious and fearful horse. He was left doing nothing til he was 6 and backed then (he's 9 now). I think it would improve with time but I don't know if I have the energy for it and I know that sounds awful. I also promised his previous owner I would never sell him. She tragically died in a motorbike accident, so I sort of now feel I have to keep my promise to her......:o

[YASMiN___X0]

Having read your thread - you're obviously very brave! If i'd have been in the situation i would probably have turned around and gone home.. i'm a wimp when it comes to horses misbehaving on the roads!
I don't know how viable this is, but have you thought about sending him off to have some training done with someone who specialises in problem horses? Or, if you can't sell him, putting him out on loan? You've probably already thought through these but just suggestions.
If he is as dangerous as you describe, and it is on an everyday basis, you may be best off rehoming him despite your promise to the lady. Would she really have wanted you putting yourself at such risk? If it's been a year with little progress then it may be the best option.

[cookster1975]

Thanks Yasmin. You're right, I'm sure she wouldn't want me putting myself in danger and I do have to be sensible and think that my family are the most important thing.

Plus if I'm 100% honest and I ask myself if I enjoy him, it would be a no. I really want to be able to hack alone, in fact sometimes I need to.

Loan might be an option, then I can keep an eye on what's happening, as he is such a worried little horse.:)

[YASMiN___X0]

Thanks Yasmin. You're right, I'm sure she wouldn't want me putting myself in danger and I do have to be sensible and think that my family are the most important thing.

Plus if I'm 100% honest and I ask myself if I enjoy him, it would be a no. I really want to be able to hack alone, in fact sometimes I need to.

Loan might be an option, then I can keep an eye on what's happening, as he is such a worried little horse.:)

Exactly - you've answered it yourself! Horse riding is generally there to be enjoyed and keeping him out of guilt because you promised his previous owner won't do either of you any good. I'm not saying to completely disregard your promise to this lady, obviously keep her in mind (which i'm sure you would). You could always put him on full loan with view to buy for the right person, and then begin looking for another more suitable neddy for yourself :)

[KateWooten]

What you describe would be well out of my comfort zone. In general I try to keep the horse within his comfort zone. You need to find a place where he is comfortable, and work from there. Is there a field at home where he is fine ? Could you introduce hacking to him, after a break, with an older horse (thinking - obviously not, else you would have done ! ) Have you had a look at some of the books/ dvds available on the subject ? What I would be looking for, in brief, would be a place at home where he feels safe, and work from there, gradually extending 'rides' until the point where he begins to feel unsafe - but no more, even if it's only 10 feet from his safe place. Work hard at the safe place, then ride out to your new boundary place and wait there. Lateral flexion is a great tool to have for helping him relax at the boundary. Then back to the safe spot to work again. Over and over again. I mean, really a lot - say 50 to 100 times in a single ride. Then day by day, gradually extend 'the ride' until it's more than 10 feet, but still safe.

[dex]

Not sure what sze yard you're at but is there something not to far around with lots of liveries/horses so that there is someone to ride out with on a regualr basis for the time being? Might help with his confidence until ready to try solo again?

[Kimmy C]

Do you have anybody who could walk out on foot with you. You could have them walk next to you, then fall back a bit. It might work.

[cookster1975]

Thanks guys. I do have quite a few people to ride with and he is fine when out with something else. Ditto if there's someone on a bike or on foot. It's just when he's on his own he does this.

I have been mostly hacking, with others, since I've had him, with the odd bit of schooling/lungeing in the field, where he can also be quite nappy. I never let him get away with this as he can see the others and is just being naughty.

Maybe I should just persevere with small solo rides i.e. round the block. Even if I do this before I hack out with friends, just to get him used to it?

[Cortrasna]

Im no expert by ANY means - but my gut feeling is that you obviously dont feel at all safe on this horse (nor would I - but thats another story)

Plus you have tried for a year and obviously arent really getting what you want out of him are you? some excellent advice here - BUT - at the end of the day - you have 2 children who need you and a hobby that is dangerous even on the ploddiest old sort? I'd be looking to rehome him bearing in mind that you will do the best for him and find something you can feel safe on and start enjoying your hobby?

Only you know what your instinct is telling you on this - go with it and good luck whatever you decide:)

[cookster1975]

Im no expert by ANY means - but my gut feeling is that you obviously dont feel at all safe on this horse (nor would I - but thats another story)

Plus you have tried for a year and obviously arent really getting what you want out of him are you? some excellent advice here - BUT - at the end of the day - you have 2 children who need you and a hobby that is dangerous even on the ploddiest old sort? I'd be looking to rehome him bearing in mind that you will do the best for him and find something you can feel safe on and start enjoying your hobby?

Only you know what your instinct is telling you on this - go with it and good luck whatever you decide:)

I think you're right, in that I am always worrying about what damage he could potentially do to myself or someone else, or someone's property i.e. car! I suppose some might say don't go out on your own but this is something I really enjoy occasionally. This is definitely taking some of the sparkle out of my hobby, which costs me alot financially and time wise, as everyone knows. What worries me is finding him the right home. Who would want to take this sort of horse on? I would hate to think he ended up with someone who lost their temper and hit him etc as this would do him no good at all.

I really do love him and this makes it a really really tough decision.

[Cortrasna]

Look for a loan home and really vet them thoroughly and be honest about him - at least that way you still have some control over whats happening with him - and if your honest about him it will ensure that only people with the knowledge and patience will apply for him anyway? Difficult I know but some times I think we need to be realistic about this mad hobby we all have dont you?:)

[Showjumper]

Bummer that sounds like a nightmare ride! Do you ever do any serious fast work? Be it very long trots or a good gallop?

Dolly's been a spooky moron the last 2 days and it was getting silly (she's not usually ever spooky but today she spooked at a shadow!) so today she got a smack, a kick and I put her into a decent forward-going working trot and kept her trotting for about 3 minutes after she started suggesting she might like to slow down again. After that, she was absolutely angelic.

If you don't have anywhere safe to trot for as long as it takes or you wouldn't feel safe going up a gear when he's being difficult, I'd definitely consider whether he's the perfect horse for you, bearing in mind you need to keep yourself safe for your family, and that horses are meant to be fun.

[kitcat2]

I know this is probably a stupid question but have you had his tack checked/teeth done? That could be a contributing factor.

Im no expert but if you're not enjoying him then maybe you should consider putting him on loan/ sending him away to a trainer:confused: It might do you both good to get a break so someone can build up his confidence and you can build up yours :D If he is sensitive maybe he is picking up on you being a little nervous and acting up:o

[tetleyteabag]

Aw hun Im so sorry the prokalm didnt work. I know how hard it is trying to get these stress heads out on their own, my boy stresses although not as bad as your Basil.

A big pat on the back though for putting up with it, if that was me I wouldnt have lasted 10 minutes:o

If things have been like this for a year and there has been no improvement then you need to look hard at what you want to do. Your probably feeling like crap at the mo but tomorro will be different, just do things with him that you both enjoy and go from there. Ive had my lad nearly a year now and I can see that he has improved slowly so I do have light at the end of my tunnel which keeps me going. Can you say the same???

Its your choice of course and a very hard one to make but if you have little ones ( I have 2 also ) thenyou have to keep yourself safe for them:)

[cookster1975]

Hi SJ - I went on quite a long ride yesterday - lots of trotting etc and usually do go on quite energetic rides!

Kitcat2 - He has his back checked every 6 months and teeth are done regularly too. Last time was about 4 months ago and he didn't need much at all.

Thanks TTB! He has had some time off due to lameness and has only been back in work for about 2 - 3 weeks and he is definitely worse again than he was. The trouble is he is genuinely scared and I don't think this will change - it's his nature. He doesn't want to be on his own at all.

This is why I am so torn. I really don't think he'll ever stop it altogether, just that eventually he might give up a bit. Without being big headed, I'm not scared of him at all, and always ride him through it and he will eventually go, but it's all such a battle and neither he, nor I enjoy it.

I think I will put him back on a calmer regularly and cut out all feed and just keep trying. Trouble is he is ALWAYS going to be a nervous, anxious horse and I'm ALWAYS going to want to hack out on my own, which he hates.

I wanted to keep him for ever and give him a great home and feel terrible that I'm even considering rehoming him, HOWEVER, I need to think of me too. If I didn't have a job and a family and could spend all the time in the world down there, it would make things easier. Confused! :rolleyes:

[cookster1975]

p.s. I'm pretty sure if the perfect person came along and said "oh I've got all the time in the world, he is just perfect for me" that would be decision made. :confused:

[Riley Roo]

Was it only one scoop you used? If so i don't think you gave him enough. DavidH suggested 2-3 scoops for V. nervous horses or at high stress times - i think it says so on tub too. 1 scoop is generally a maintenance dose.

Perhaps next time try the higher dosage - i suggest 3 judging by his reaction (you're very brave btw - i would've got off and walked) - an hour before you go on your hack and then go on your hack. As soon as he starts to get worried on his own and show any signs of worry stand him still, reassure him (if he turns round turn him back calmly) and then turn him back for home. I would gradually build up the distance he goes - if he is nappy he is not being naughty - just fearful - and he will gain confidence the more regularily he does it.

Horses are a creature of habit and fearful horses thrive on routine because there are no surprises (yes i have one myself :rolleyes:) if you make solo hacking part of his routine and extend the distance little by little i am sure he will be ok to solo hack eventually. Choose a small circular hack at first - perhaps walk in hand first so he knows the route and then try to ride it. Your horse will not 'win' if you turn him round once he has reached his comfort zone - he needs to trust you and once fear has set in he won't associate anything with the experience apart from fear until he is back in his comfort zone so to get him to stand still and relaxed and then turn round means that he feels he can relax at that point and then push the distance a little further next time. I hope that makes sense? :)

[wonkeywoody]

Ditto up the dose!

I used 1 on a monday am, 1 on the tues am then 1 more tues pm an hour before travelling to a show.
Repeated the following week. - fab behaviour both times.

Next time I did 1 on the mon, 1 on the tues. He was more on edge at the show.

Last week I had only 2 scoops left so did one on the tues am and one on the wed am then travelled to a new venue for a lesson. He was very on edge but not as bad as he can be but did settle quite quickly. I think I need to do the 3 scoop tactic I did originally for a while longer ...... Every horse will be different so you need to experiment a bit - err on the side of 'overdose'!!!

[cookster1975]

Thanks WW, will do and yes Riley Roo that makes perfect sense. Do you think I should wait til he naps or stop, chill and then turn round just before where I know he might nap? Although sometimes he does it at the gate or just outside the gate!:rolleyes:

Think it's me that's not making sense!

[fairlady]

You know some of my thoughts on this having been there myself with
a Horse once, BEFORE I saw the light.

Horseriding is a lot of money, a lot of time, and can be a lot of Heartbreak, but the one thing it should be above all is FUN.....when it reaches the
point of 'dread' its time to do some serious thinking.

You know because I have told you it came to the point with My Horse, Lady
that as an out and out athiest I started 'crossing' myself before I came out of the gate:p Not good, no good at all. I had done my utmost for that Horse, and her 'hacking' issues, she was superfit from all the lunging, riding etc., its a vicious circle, and the day
she went there were bucketfuls of tears, 40% sadness, 60% RELIEF:p I too went thro' the 'who would want her, who would 'understand' her issues?', but they did, in fact they achieved far more with her that I ever would or could have;)

I am a firm believer that there is an Owner/Loaner out there for each Horse, the one thing you can do is ensure that any Horse goes to what you deem
to be the 'right' Owner/Loaner at the time.

IF you stick with Basil you have to go right back to basics with him, walking
him out in hand instilling confidence etc., as you would with a Youngster BEFORE risking your neck riding him out solo.

You are a nice, tidy Rider Soph, and an understanding Owner, and tbh in all the time I have known you, and its a fair few years now, you
have ALWAYS had Horses with a few, what shall we say, lol, 'issues' but you also have to face the possibility that Basil maybe a Horse that you will NEVER be able to hack out solo in safety, and even in Company he is a ......' lively'
ride, lol. I KNOW and fully appreciate you made a promise to 'K' but I am sure she would never have wanted you risking your own safety;) and as for the 'friends' that say 'you can't etc., etc.,' THEY are not the ones who actually have to climb aboard!!!