How would you react if your farrier hit your horse?

[kookoolaalaa]

I have had Sky, my new horse 8 weeks, today is the second time she has been shod. We moved yards the day she came so I had to find a new farrier. She was shod the week after I got her, she wasn't great to shoe, nothing really bad, she dosen't like standing around for long and kept pulling foot out of farriers hand, he was really patient and put it down to her being new to the farm. Today he came back, (after letting me down on Thursday) and was really aggressive towards her, he smacked her at least twice and swore repeatedly. I must admit after he smacked her she was much better. He said she's taking the p*ss with me and I should make her do.
Is it right???

[CL66]

personally, and i work with horses, i do not think that anyone should hit your horse just because they are misbehaving. It's not their place to discipline them. I was talking to my vet about it yesterday and we were discussing how a lot of people do get walked over by their horses and yes, sometimes they do need a smack or discipline in some way, but we both agreed we would never ever consider doing it ourselves.

Maybe ask the owners permission or something, but don't just go ahead, and if someone did that to my horse i would be pretty peed off.

[cinammontoast]

Tricky. I've never had a farrier hit my horse but my lad can be a right pain with his feet-mostly with me, but perfect with his current farrrier, whi is super calm, patient etc.

I would say, yes, be firm, but I do prefer the treat and reward method. I won't lie and say I never smack him, but it may be that your horse lacks confidence when some random bloke comes and picks up her feet and unbalances her. How old is she?

Re CL66's post, it's a balance of if to smack and certainly no-one should just whack a horse and not ask, but if the punishment is not adminsitered immediately, then the horse won't associate the smack with doing wrong.

[Elly Koopman]

not really - it's potentially the reason why she wasn't great the first time if a farrier has done that to her before :o

I personally would bump him and find another farrier - meanwhile working on picking her feet up, standing around etc.

[kookoolaalaa]

She's 7, ISH came over from Ireland a few months ago. Perfect in many ways, just having trouble on the ground when brushing her and picking her feet up when I take her up to the stables. She wont stand still, barges all over. Wont think twice of knocking me over :-(

[kookoolaalaa]

Any tips for ground manners?

[cinammontoast]

She needs some manners generally, then? I'd be tempted to do clicker training or patience and endless amounts of it as you push on her chest if she invades your space, voice or physical reward etc. Maybe stick a thread in Training of the Horse as you may get more answers re the manners there. She may be cheeky or just not yet settled and needs reassurance and a firm hand. She sounds just like mine! It's taken me ages to get him to stand for feet-just took lots of practise and having them done regularly. He tries it on now and gets moved back to where I want him. A good tip re back feet is to stretch them further backwards more than she wants to give them so that you're safer if she tries to kick.

My lad came from Ireland and the farrier is Irish and says most horses are cold shod over there. Did your farrier hot or cold shoe? It may be that she's not used to the smoke and was scared of the firebreathing monsters!

[kookoolaalaa]

She needs some manners generally, then? I'd be tempted to do clicker training or patience and endless amounts of it as you push on her chest if she invades your space, voice or physical reward etc. Maybe stick a thread in Training of the Horse as you may get more answers re the manners there. She may be cheeky or just not yet settled and needs reassurance and a firm hand.

My lad came from Ireland and the farrier is Irish and says most horses are cold shod over there. Did your farrier hot or cold shoe? It may be that she's not used to the smoke and was scared of the firebreathing monsters!

Hot shoe but the smoke was not the problem... Yes she does need manners but should the farrier give her a real good belt to try and sort her out? Although it did seem to work. He said I am too soft with her.

[Bangers & Mash]

If the horse is being dangerous and knows he is being naughty, then yes.

[CL66]

Re CL66's post, it's a balance of if to smack and certainly no-one should just whack a horse and not ask, but if the punishment is not adminsitered immediately, then the horse won't associate the smack with doing wrong.

absolutely agree, and if it's doing it a few times there's ample chance to ask the owner if they'd mind reprimanding it or mind if you do for safety's sake the next time they do it, but like you said, not just to hit it, which is what it sounds like hers did.

I think with something like the farrier, which happens frequently for most of our horses, time should be taken in between visits to train the horse to be better behaved or more used to what is asked of it in the situation.

[skips and soda]

I wouldn't get rid of him based on one bad day...

Honestly? I can't say it would bother me all that much. *waits for everyone to rise up in horror*

It's not like (from what I can see) he whacked her one with the rasp/other tool or on her head (apologies to OP if he did but I didn't see it in your post). No, he shouldn't have done it wihtout asking you, on the other hand, how many of us have had a bad day and snapped at someone when it's not really necessary or gotten frustrated with our horses when we know we shouldn't? I'm certainly guilty of both these things!

Farrier's do a fairly dangerous job, having a horse waving its legs at you and constantly ripping them out your grasp isn't fun, they have a small margin to work within so it's not really in your horse's best interests for her to be waving he leg about when he's about to nail something into her foot! (As an example). If a smack worked and she stood quietly afterwards then no real harm done as far as I can see. Skippy was/still can be a b*gger to shoe. First few times my farrier was ultra patient (once took us about 4 hours on a freezing cold winter's evening, we finished at 10.30pm with only 3 shoes on) and never raised his voice/hand to Skippy. We worked on the problem and gradually it started to get better, Skips was no longer afraid/unsure of the equipment. However, he does have a bit of an attitude sometimes (Skippy, not my farrier!) and even now despite being fairly good most of the time he'll occasionally throw his teddies out the pram and then he is really dangerous when he wants to be. After over a year of the special shoes being put on he shou;ld be used to the equipment by now and you can tell from his body language that he's just trying his luck, so my farrier has asked me if I would be ok with him disciplining Skippy as he sees fit at these moments, and I've said yes. I trust him, he has smacked Skippy a couple of times and Skips has stood still afterwards, the last few times he came out to shoe Skips, Skips has stood quietly and gone all dozy, then my farrier lavishes him with praise.

It's a tricky line, personally I have and will smack my horses occasionally if I feel they have behaved badly when they KNOW the correct way to behave and I trust my farrier's judgement on when he smacks them as well. He was incredibly patient with Skippy when he needed to be and has the measure of him pretty well, he knows when Skippy is acting up and when Skippy is genuinely worried about something. It pays to remember that they're doing a fairly dangerous job and if they get injured they can't earn money, it's not fair to expect them to risk themselves more than they need to. Equally, if it really bothers you then I'd be inclined to talk to your farrier abot it and explain that you'd rather he didn't. He'll either oblige or not want to come and shoe her again, either way the problem will be solved and at least it gives him another chance.

[Sexy Sietske]

Honestly, if the farrier hit my horse he probably deserves it... sometimes he needs an elbow in the rib to snap him out of his grumpiness!

[CL66]

I agree with the above if you know your farrier, your farrier knows you, and your horse and what is/isn't acceptable behaviour for that horse. But it was only the 2nd time he shod her so in that respect i don't think it was the most appropriate thing to do. I've had horses waving their feet in my face and haven't smacked them. Fortunately their owners have been sensible enough to sort them out when they're downright dangerous just because they've had enough, not because they're scared.

Definitely a tough one to answer across the board, but i'm not convinced in this circumstance.

[skips and soda]

Actually, on the flip side of my last post, Soda's farrier came out the other day (different farriers cos changed farrier for Skips due to him needing special shoes, would like to change Soda over to Skip's farrier really but do feel a bit mean...) anyway, he was @rsey anyway and having a real whinge, kept snapping at Soda for supposedly moving when in actual fact if Soda was any stiller I would have been worried he'd gone into a coma! He didn't hit him but constant 'angry' body language and raised voice at him, in the end I told him to stop getting angry when Soda wasn't doing anything. If he'd hit him he'd have been off the yard and no longer my farrier before he could take a breath!

However, that's because I don't see that Soda was actually doing anything, he was stood perfectly still, held his leg up as and when needed and was basically good as gold, if he'd been snatching his leg out of farrier's grasp and moving about I wouldn't have minded that farrier was reprimanding him.

[puzzles]

Personally, I would be exceedingly narked off; yet it is interesting how there was a thread recently asking if NR's think it right to discipline other people's horses, and almost all of them said a very solid yes - yet in this case many would think the farrier wrong.
If you were there, then he should have asked you to discipline/control your horse. Noone should ever lose their temper with a horse or "discipline" it out of anger & frustration, especially with a new horse! I would give him a clear warning and if he behaves in a similarly intolerant manner again, find another farrier. You deserve better.

x

[eventerbabe]

I had a previous farrier smack my horse with a rasp under the belly. I was not best pleased as all my horse did was shift his weight. I completely agree that the job a farrier does is a strenuous and potentially dangerous one and bad behaviour isn't acceptable. It's difficult to judge if the horse "deserved it". I would work on basic manners and do lots of leg and foot handling. My current farrier never raised so much as his voice to my youngster (who was iffy to trim due to an incident in the field). So smacking isn't the essential route...

[ForestGump]

I agree with skips and soda on this.

My farrier has disciplined my horse, and I'm fine with it.
He was very pateint for a long time as Forest was nervous of him and would kick out in fear.

Forest has been shod my my farrier for 18 months now, and knows that he won't get hurt etc (he was previously abused so wary of new people). So his behaviour now is just pure rudeness.
In that situation Forest would get a smack from me, so I expect no less from my farrier.

If I was bent down picking out his feet etc and he kicked out, he would be smacked (shot me down in flames if you want, but Forest knows after that and won't try again), so I don't mind my farrier doing it.

My farrier has never hit Forest out of turn, and as soon as hes told him off, goes back to being calm and friendly with him again.
If my farrier hit Forest repeatedly for kicking, and after that was continuely rough with him, then yes I would have something to say.
But, Forest kicks out, gets a smack, and a telling off (no shouting just firm voice), then the farrier continues like nothing has happened and praises when Forest is good.

[popularfurball]

Silver pooped it when she realised she was about to be shod... the first time I have seen her shod. She was completly oblivious to it and suddly went all skitty when his tripod appeared.... However he was quiet with her, and just got on with it and she didnt even try to cow kick or bite - she was just scared, but settled after the first two feet :) (She is a PITA to pick her feet up - kicking, biting etc - we are doing ground work to change this atm, but he was really good with her - firm but quiet)

[jennywren07]

My farrier has give Jen a slap for taking the mick, just the same as i would have. She got an OI first and ignored it so the next time she got a slap on the shoulder.

He is however very patient with her stiff knee giving her regular breaks when its playing up and spend 45 mins trimming Jasper the first time he was done and makes a point of making a fuss of him every time he comes so Jasper isn't scared of him (he's a yearling)

I think it depends on the horse and your farriers relationship with them. I had one him my horse with a rasp once and he never shod my horse again, but an appropriate repremand for messing about i have no problem with

[Yann]

Today he came back, (after letting me down on Thursday) and was really aggressive towards her, he smacked her at least twice and swore repeatedly.

'Correcting' a horse is one thing, being aggressive and unprofessional is entirely another.

he was really patient and put it down to her being new to the farm

So what had changed this time? Not your horse I don't think.

[Laura+Phantom]

I would never use any professional that hit my horse. I have an EDT and a vet on my blacklist for this. If someone laid a hand on Phantom they'd be gone, that's not how we do things - I appreciate some people discipline their horses that way and that is their personal decision, but for an outsider to come in and have the cheek to physically punish your horse, without your permission, without knowing your way of dealing with that horse, or knowing the horse's background, is out of order, in my opinion.

A vet hit my shetland gelding around the head because he wouldn't stand still for his jab. I had already told her he is head shy due to being beaten in the past. I won't tell you what I think of her! (I gave her a good telling off though).

[nattyhorseluver]

It depends on what type of hit, if it was a tap on the shoulder then no that wouldn't bother me a bit, she would more than likely deserve it! The only time one of my was hit was when flash was having his shoes put back on for the summer, he was rearing like mad and at one point caught my farrier on the head and that was the only point he actually hit him with a small amount of force but enough for flash to realise I'd better stop this now, and he is perfect ever since!

[northern_rachel]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind. If my horse put my farrier at risk then I would be downright suprise if he stood and put up with it. I don't want my horse thinking it can get away with acting up for different people.
I'm not fluffy when it comes to manners and firm handling.

[bad-_-habit]

try to deal with a horse that has Sleep Disorder and getting shoed not easy i tell u

[Yann]

I don't want my horse thinking it can get away with acting up for different people.

The OP's horse is a young horse, in new surroundings, and if they've come across from Ireland possibly as green as the grass over there. It sounds from its lack of ground manners that its education has been quick and barely adequate. Knocking her about isn't going to help the situation, patience, kindness and consistency might. I'd be looking for another farrier, his behaviour was unacceptable in my book.

Any tips for ground manners?

This is the sort of situation where a bit of NH stuff goes an awful long way. You do need to be firm, but that firmness has to be entirely fair. In the short term a training halter of some kind might help you establish the boundaries if she's very big and strong. Perfect Manners by Kelly Marks is a good book to start with, it's well written and there are some simple exercises you can do with your horse. Everything is connected, if you can get her leading and standing more politely then the foot handling should get better too.

[duchy]

Wouldnt bother me, so long as the smack was justified by the horses bad behaviour then I wouldnt mind my farrier giving any of mine a smack.

[rtk]

I depends on the horse, some are definately tacking the p*ss.

I tell farriers before they start if the horse is young, nervous and how to handle them.

If they are just being naughty then I dont have a problem with a smack (with his hand) wont tolerate them using tools. I once saw one use a hammer :eek:

[Yann]

I depends on the horse, some are definately tacking the p*ss.

Or they're poorly trained, nervous of having their legs handled, have a physical reason for finding the flexions farriers have to ask for uncomfortable, or are regularly knocked around at shoeing time and find the process stressful?

It's the owner's job to present a well behaved and safe horse to the farrier and the farrier's to do everything they reasonably can to keep it that way.

[flinglebunt]

The farrier is the professional here and should know what he is doing. An open handed smack on the shoulder or rump will break his hand long before it injures the horse in any way. He has got to get the message across to the horse that it WILL behave in a certain way when being shod, this is for his own safety and to enable him to do the best possible job on his feet.

To ask if he can discipline your horse is totally impractical. The timing of a smack is critical and delivered a second too late it will acheive nothing. The bottom line is did he manage to get the shoeing done without incident and did the horse start to show respect?

Not sure about the swearing though and you could have a word about that, but don't bring the smacking into it because you might find yourself stuck for a farrier.

[bexc3]

We had a farrier at our yard a couple of years back who turned out to be a bit of a nasty sod. He repeatedly kicked my mum's cob in the stomach with his steel toe cap boots cos he was fidgeting, i was holding him at the time and couldn't believe my eye's. I stopped the farrier straight away and took the horse away. He didn't even apologise, just started ffing and blinding at me saying i needed to teach the horse manners.
Anyway the next day he had a huge haematoma on his tummy and had to have the vet out :eek:, she couldn't believe her eyes. Needless to say we never had him again.

I think a little smack is ok if they are generally messing about and are being naughty and not scared but not kicking or using their equipment to beat a horse. x

[flinglebunt]

We had a farrier at our yard a couple of years back who turned out to be a bit of a nasty sod. He repeatedly kicked my mum's cob in the stomach with his steel toe cap boots cos he was fidgeting, i was holding him at the time and couldn't believe my eye's. I stopped the farrier straight away and took the horse away. He didn't even apologise, just started ffing and blinding at me saying i needed to teach the horse manners.
Anyway the next day he had a huge haematoma on his tummy and had to have the vet out :eek:, she couldn't believe her eyes. Needless to say we never had him again.

I think a little smack is ok if they are generally messing about and are being naughty and not scared but not kicking or using their equipment to beat a horse. x

I'm pretty pragmatic about these things (see my posting earlier in this thread) but if that had been my horse I think I would have kicked him, taken him to the small claims court for the vet bill, and reported him to the farriers council where he could be struck off.
A smack on shoulder or bum is one thing, but kicking in the stomache, hitting about the face and head and a number of other things are totally unacceptable under any circumstances.

[Laura+Phantom]

I agree with Yann 100% - and that isn't being 'fluffy' ;)

[lil chicken]

At pony camp once, we were going to the beach next day so all the horses that were going had to have there hooves done. I was holding Toby for the farrier and Toby was just being friendly nuzzling his back. The farrier got the huge metal file he was using and thwacked him over the head with it!:mad: Honestly I was so angry and shocked, I could have got one of the other tools and hit him over the head! Toby wasn't even doing anything naughty!

I think if the horse is misbehaving (and you know it is just bad behaviour rather than discomfort) a small smack on the shoulder is fine but not with a huge great file!

[Gruntfuttock]

Surely if YOUR horse was misbehaving for the farrier, wouldn't you discipline him first before the farrier needed to? I know several farriers that won't touch "bad" horses, or who will inssit that the horses are mildly sedated before shoeing. i don't blame the farrier one bit - if he's injured by someone's badly-behaved horse, then he can't work.

Fortunately, despite Ella's anti-social tendencies with most strangers, she absolutely LOVES my farrier and has done since she first met him!

[Ruskii]

Depends.

Like someone said surely it's your place as the owner to discipline the horse first ? My farrier is semi-retired now and wont touch horses that as he put it 'A pain in the arse - I've done to many in my time and I just want easy horses now'

My cob is lazy and his feet are an issue, he'll hold it up for about 10 seconds max before he tries to snatch it away, he does this with all his feet. (Before I'm jumped on I've had someone check him out) he came to me holding his feet up for the farrier fine, it was just my lack of keeping on top of the training that he has become a bit more 'No I dont want to' he did get bad one day and snatched his foot right away from me when I was picking them out, and yes he did get a wallop for it. He let me pick his foot up again though no trouble after I growled at him.

The EDT got tough with him once, he had been rasping and working on his teeth for about 25 mins and holding Levi's head an uncomfortable angle, now Levi can try it on sometimes, but on the whole is a Very Nice Person. He obviously was getting stiff and started to pull his head away, (he has never needed sedating for his teeth or anything like that) the EDT took a firmer hold on his head, gave it a shake and said 'Dont try and fight me boy, as you'll loose', I was standing with my arms resting on the stable door and straight away it came out of my mouth 'You'll come off second best as I'll have you' (Dont know where that came from but I just saw red, how dare he threaten my horse when it was clear Levi was getting a bit stiff from having his head up that high :mad: )

The EDT just looked at me funny and gave his partner a look of 'Women' and rolled his eyes. I wont be having him back :mad:

[sarchie]

You say that the first time the farrier was quite understanding and calm, yet this visit he was swearing a lot and hit the horse - sounds to me like he was in a foul mood for starters!

I would be extremely p*ssed off if he hit my horse, the only reason she would move is through discomfort and has always behaved for the farrier apart from one! He worked for my farrier and was newly qualified, plus renowned for being extremely bad tempered and agressive with some horses. In the 27+ years I've had Gaz that's the only time I've seen her rear! Never used him again.

If a horse was taking the p*ss and being dangerous then it wouldn't bother me TOO much, but I would be embarrassed that the farrier had to discipline my horse because I hadn't done it! A bit like someone else having to tell my children off because I wasn't keeping them in check.

[S.J.C]

I'd be bloody furious! :mad:

[Amy-Lou]

My old farrier did that to my old pony. Who happened to be pretty nervous cos he had been badly treated before we bought him.
Worse he hit him with the cutters so i turned around and said 'Don't you dare hit my horse again, he's already had that before and I don't need him going back a few more steps thank you very much' I also told him to leave and we never had him again...
This happened a few years ago and i was about 14 but was not going to let someone hit my pony!!
I think it depends how they are trained cos another guy who trained with him has been known to do this...i'm not saying its right though!!
It made me even more angry cos he knew he was nervous and NOT peeing about

[hepsibah]

If it were MY horse I'd knock him flat then tell him to p*ss off!
My horse is very good indeed with the farrier, gets very relaxed, leans his nose on me and lets them do their job without any fuss. Last time he was shod, the farrier's apprentice did it and was incredibly insensitive, behaved as though Brock was meat on the hoof. He crashed around with very aggressive body language, grumbled about Brock not making it easy for him and was generally unfriendly. I was getting wired up to slot him one if he laid a finger on him. It doesn't take a lot of bad experiences to make a horse bad for the farrier. :mad:

[Laura+Phantom]

the EDT took a firmer hold on his head, gave it a shake and said 'Dont try and fight me boy, as you'll loose'

Ugh, "yes because you are stronger than a horse, aren't you?" Silly man, don't blame you for not having him back!

[flinglebunt]

If it were MY horse I'd knock him flat then tell him to p*ss off!
My horse is very good indeed with the farrier, gets very relaxed, leans his nose on me and lets them do their job without any fuss. Last time he was shod, the farrier's apprentice did it and was incredibly insensitive, behaved as though Brock was meat on the hoof. He crashed around with very aggressive body language, grumbled about Brock not making it easy for him and was generally unfriendly. I was getting wired up to slot him one if he laid a finger on him. It doesn't take a lot of bad experiences to make a horse bad for the farrier. :mad:

Only a week ago I watched the farriers apprentice taking the shoes off a horse that really was being a pain in the arse. The lad was being quietly persistant and as calm as possible but when he went to lift one of the backs the horse bucked and sent him flying. He ended up dazed with a bit of a nose bleed but not seriously hurt.
The farrier took over taking the shoes off and carried on with the fitting without any problem at all. No smacks, no shouting ..... just an incredible possitive approach that let the horse know he was not going to take any nonsense....... something the lad was learning only comes with experience.
By the job was finished the horse was dozing at the tie up and putty in the farriers hands.
That is proffessionalism at its best.

[Kit]

Any more than one for being a pain in the backside and they're finished.
Have removed a farrier from the yard for walloping a youngster on his third set of shoes three times in the belly, not on, imo. slap on shoulder or rump is acceptable if I'm not there to deliver it!

[lauraandharvey]

Harvey got kicked in the ribs by steel capped boots by farriers apprentise (is it same farrier i use??)
when he thought i wasnt looking
i hit the wall, told diane, she had a word with him

he hasnt done it since
harvey kicked out a few times after he'd come to shoe him again (cant blame him poor lad is scared of him)

tbh harvey is very iffy with his back legs, farrier knows this, ive made it clear on more than one occasion he is To have new shoes every
8 weeks.

i know why harvey was dickin about with his back legs, they hold them so high up he cant get his balance, especialy when using the tripod

told apprentise who last time used a smaller one for his back feet and harvey was fine:)

[kookoolaalaa]

[QUOTE=lauraandharvey;2446267]Harvey got kicked in the ribs by steel capped boots by farriers apprentise (is it same farrier i use??)
when he thought i wasnt looking
i hit the wall, told diane, she had a word with him

he hasnt done it since
harvey kicked out a few times after he'd come to shoe him again (cant blame him poor lad is scared of him)

tbh harvey is very iffy with his back legs, farrier knows this, ive made it clear on more than one occasion he is To have new shoes every
8 weeks.

i know why harvey was dickin about with his back legs, they hold them so high up he cant get his balance, especialy when using the tripod

It's not your farrier but Diane knows who I have used... I'm having a few problems on the ground! She's difficult to catch and when I take her to the stables on her own she's a real fidget when I try and brush/pick feet up! Took me 10 mins the other day to pick her feet up... I need to do some work on the ground which is new to me but I'm sure we can learn together.
Must admit she's was better after he smacked her one. Just didn't think it was professional.

[sammie_85]

The farrier who they use at the yard mine is at has days where he is an absolute beast if your horse does something. Hence, I do not want him to touch foalie who could then be put off farriers for life!

[Joyscarer]

I trust my farrier.

He knows how I feel about Joy and the way I treat her.

If her needed to smack her because he was in danger then he's more than welcome to.

However, when Joy is being shod I am there. I watch her (when I'm not gossiping with the farrier that is) and can spot her her intentions before they are fully formed. I consider it my duty as an owner to be a mind reader and to take evassive action before that thought does become and intention and then an action.

[hepsibah]

But what about if your horse is a sweetie and the bad temperered farrier behaves as though it were being otherwise?

Poor Brock kept looking at the guy and back at me as if to say "what's going on??" I felt terrible about it. He still behaved though, even as bewildered as he was.

[Joyscarer]

But what about if your horse is a sweetie and the bad temperered farrier behaves as though it were being otherwise?





That wouldn't happen with me. I come across a pre menstrual as my normal demenour! God help the person who messes with my mob as I'm happy to voice my concerns!

[hepsibah]

I come across as sweetness and light whereas in fact I'm more of a rottweiler with a bad tooth if somebody messes with my 'oss. :)

[x_diablo_x]

your farrier is there to tend to your horses feet not to train your horse and tell you how to deal with it!! it my farrier hit my horse i would tell him not to and if he insisted to do it again i would be walking away putting my horse back in the field/stable and ask him to leave! it may not have been a hard smack but next time it mite be wich could lead to your horse becoming terrified of farriers there is ways of training horses tht dose not involve hitting good luck with this one ond dont stand for any cr*p ;)

[MelanieD]

Totally depends on the horse and the behaviour for me. After trimming a few little darlings who were less than impressed with the idea of a pedicure I can really understand the temptation to rasp the pony's a*se but you really need to control the temper and either use patience and persuasion or a reasonable but effective telling off if they really are taking the p*ss.

My old farrier only ever smacked Roxy ones and she was being such a complete t*t that day I think he was justified. For hitting that was excessive or unecessary it'd depend how bad, from just not using that farrier again up to telling them to b*gger off right then if really bad.

[joshes mum]

My last farrier had no patience with my horse he smacked him and dug him in the belly with his rasp then had the cheek to tell me to get rid of him cos he was dangerous!:mad:
That was it i got rid of the farrier and found another one who has been shoeing my horse with no probs ever since.:)

[Dees-unpaidgroom]

I'm always there when dee is shod and she loves being shod - she loves attention and eating hay!

However if my farrier was to hit her when she wasnt missbehaving i would get a new farrier. However i would like to say i have the best farrier in the world so thats not likely to happen :)

[~*sugarlump*~]

I think I'd hit him back :o

[Dina]

One of my old farriers used to hit our horses, he hit Chunky once with one of his tools because Chunky was sniffing the stand he used to put their hooves on and the farrier thought he was going to spook himself (which he wasn't because he always does it). And he would hit them if they didn't stand still either.

I was just a kid really (10/11 years old) when we had this farrier so I couldn't really say anything to him about it but I spoke to my Mum about it and one of her friends used the same farrier and he hit her horse as well. So we stopped using him and swapped to another farrier (who is awesome and we have been using every since).

If that happened again now I'm not sure I would have the balls to speak up and actually say something to the farriers face but I would definitely change farriers.

[Wally]

Years ago, I went south for a competition, and stopped off in the midlands and got my old farier to meet me there to shoe my horse for the competition.

My horse was being a prat, and not standing up nicely. So I told my farrier to give him a wallop.....which he did at the next bout of bad behviour.

One short, sharp smack and the sillyness went away and we got the job done. Not always they right treatment for every horse, but for mine, in that situation, it was what was called for.

[domane]

I think it really depends on the situation but I wouldn't want a farrier to give my horse a wallop without me making the suggestion first. Roo is such a nervous nelly that a wallop from a strange man would have him vertical.... he's better handled calmly and politely, to be honest - he responds better.

[Chip]

I have actually told my farrier on occasion that if X plays up, would he please reprimand her. I know he would only use a hand, but actually he would never even do that. WE as owners have a responsibilty to train our horses to stand quietly for the farrier. I realise some have issues, my newest does, and I would expect calm patince from my farrier, but also realise that sometimes they are just taking the P.
I do not think they should reprimand without good reason, or in a manner that could injure the horse. Tools and steel toe caps are definately a not, but a shout or smack with the hand are fine by me.

[Hullabaloo]

personally, and i work with horses, i do not think that anyone should hit your horse just because they are misbehaving. It's not their place to discipline them.

On the contrary - I would expect anyone who handles my horse to discipline him if appropriate, and that includes a smack if he needs it. I only have people I trust handle my horse, and that includes my farrier so I have no concerns about his being beaten or abused. Farriers deal with horses all day and a good one will be a fair judge of whether a horse is genuinely frightened or taking the pee. I know if my farrier gave Boo a smack then he would deserve it (although I don't think its ever happened). I also know he would not smack my YOs youngster as he is genuinely worried about being shod.

Farriers do a dangerous job and it is down to the owner to ensure the horse is properly trained. Why should they risk being injured and unable to work because a horse is mucking about and the owner isn't doing anything about it? What else could he have done - stopped work and left you with a partly shod horse? I'm not sure you would've been very impressed with that either.

[Francis Burton]

Would those who think a farrier shouldn't discipline a horse also refrain from disciplining other people's horses?

http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201893

Presumably exactly the same standards apply. What's sauce for the goose...

[Elly Koopman]

I said on this thread that I'd bump the farrier - because I possibly had decided the situation without knowing the facts. I read that he'd hit her for just 'messing about', i.e. being fidgety etc. and for which I stand by my decision that the farrier shouldn't have hit the horse.

If, however the horse bit or kicked, then by all means the farrier would have my permission to give a flick on the nose or slap on the rump accordingly (no different to what I have done in the past and will do in the future. ), but not if was teamed with outward anger (like repeatedly smacking and shouting).

[madlady]

I trust my farrier to the point where on occasion he has shod them without me being there.

He knows that Danica has a stiff hip so she can't hold her offside hind up too high and he knows that she is a fidget, he knows that Dandea is nosy and will insist on investigating his pockets and that towards the end when she's getting a bit fed up she will start to shift her weight around. I also know that he would never lash out unless one of them put him in danger - at which point I don't have a problem at all with him sorting them out, either by voice or a smack.

I do remember one incident though where my normal farrier was off with a smashed knee - caused by a horse, and I had to have another farrier come out as a stand in. I stood with Dandea and all she did was shift her weight around and then move a few steps over - at this point the stroppy young blacksmith whacked her around the back end with his rasp. He was told in no uncertain terms at that point that if he raised another finger to my horse for nothing then it would be the last thing he would do under his own steam this side of next christmas. I told him to finish trimming the hoof he was on and then led her away - needless to say I didn't pay him either.

[claireandnadia]

I would not be happy. If I found out anyone had laid a finger on my horses all hell would break loose. A friend from a different field uses the same farrier, he hit her pony the other day because he was playing up. She said she didn't mind as he shouldn't let the horse get away with it.
My horse is good to be shod so I let him do it when I'm not there but the occasion I am there I am in control and do not leave her so if she was naughty I would deal with it.

[Elly Koopman]

at this point the stroppy young blacksmith whacked her around the back end with his rasp..

It doesn't matter which camp you are in regarding discipline or not - using the rasp is inexcusable :eek:

[diplomaticandtactful]

i have a range of equines, all good to do with farrier, others slightly more nervous. if any of them were whacked without my permission, it would be the last time he came. i don't whack my horses so i don't expect anyone else to.

sometimes, if they are arthritic, they can't stand as they are asked to. there is the line between what is being a pain and being in pain.

i present them as well as possible, they are 90% good but for that 10% of the time i expect allowances to be made for loss of balance, attention being drawn elsewhere etc. none of mine are bad, but they are all capable of moving, losing balance, just not being totally focussed. but that doesn't deserve being punished.