Owner/sharer no dressage dilemma

[Badgerer]

Is it unreasonable or ok for an owner to say to her sharer not to do anymore dressage/flatwork work on her horse, only to jump in the school or hack out?

Points to consider are:
-- Owner is very competitive and getting into elementary level dressage on horse, sharer is at prelim level dressage.
-- Owner doesn't jump horse at all, sharer does occasionally but prefers flatwork.
-- Sharer rides 2 days a week, weekday evenings, soon its going to be too dark to hack out in the evenings so restricted to riding in the school - therefore jumping only? School has limited floodlights, horse gets spookier in the winter - jumping in the dark isn't much fun!
-- Owner and sharer been happy (apparently) so far for nearly a year, owner previously taken sharer to a dressage comp and said yes to sharer doing more in the future.
-- Sharer contributes above average financially to horses upkeep.
-- Owner thinks sharer doing dressage work makes horse less responsive, confused over aids, bad for his training, and harder to get going as owner likes, although owner regularly competing and doing well at dressage, and progressing at it too.

What do you think? sorry for the mini-essay! I'm losing sleep over this..........

[Xandoz]

If the ower has such an issue oer the horse being ridden differently, perhaps she should teach the sharer how she'd like the horse to be ridden.

I've leased Daisy out twice and both times, I gave a few lessons to the lessees to teach them how Daisy prefers to be ridden.

I think the owner needs to be fair. Considering it's a sharer (read: sharing the horse and therefore the training), she should allow the sharer some leeway and allow her to do some flatwork. The horse will more likely get more difficult if the sharer ONLy jump and the owner ONLY flats. Both disciplines compliment eachother. One works better with a bit of the other in play and should be practiced by both riders.

[Hammie]

I would have thought that it's up to the owner. No reason why the owner shouldn't change the way things are done, it's their horse after all. How much you are paying is irrelevant I think.

[Ginger Thing]

Obviously it's the owner's horse so she can stipulate what she likes, but if it's going to be so restrictive for the sharer, and the owner is so concerned about her horse's training, she shouldn't be sharing him at all? Surely the point of a sharer is to help out financially and with chores - if someone doesn't want their horse's schooling being compromised by a less able rider, they should be paying someone else to ride it and improve it, not asking for payment and then not letting the sharer ride it :rolleyes:

Yes it is up to the owner, but not a good deal for the sharer so I would be looking for another share.

The owner has a choice, if she likes to be the only one to school him, she can keep him to herself and be the only one to pay for him too :p

I don't let any rider less able than myself ride mine, I have worked very hard to school him, but wouldn't share him, so I can keep control of how he's ridden.

[Gruntfuttock]

The owner is perfectly entitled to do as she pleases with her own horse...but she's taking the mick out of her sharer. I wouldn't share under those conditions, I'd be looking for another horse.

[newhorsefinder]

If the sharer is payng over the odds although restricted, there seems to be little point in shareing this horse at all. If the dark nights are going to reduce those limited activities even more, the sharer really should look for anothershare without the restrictions imposed. yes the owner does have the ultimate say, but it appears that the owner wants her cake and eat it!

[Jo_1280]

I think the owner is taking the mick and being completely ridiculous... it sounds like she wants someone to just do all the bits she can't be bothered with... if she didn't have a sharer and didn't want to jump herself she would have to PAY someone to do that type of schooling with her horse.... and all the nonsense about a lower level rider who maybe doesn't have as much experience as her is spoiling her horse - nonsense in my opinion, well schooled hores will ride at the level of the rider at that time, we all know they are pretty forgiving. The horse would just go better for her than the sharer - whats the big deal?

Sounds like she is after cheap labour, except it's not cheap, the sharer is paying her!

[doorstopper]

TBH if an owner said this to me, I'd be first offended, and second off to find a new horse, particularly if I was paying! I don't really see how riding twice a week can have such a devastating effect on a horse - and surely jumping or hacking could have equally as "confusing" an effect?

[m22]

I can see the owner's point of view. If someone sits on one of mine for a couple of minutes, then fine, but if they try to "ride" them, I find it more difficult when I get back on. Which is why I dont let anyone else ride my horse except my instructor and certain people who I know ride in the same style as me.

However, if I were sharing a horse, I would expect to do as I liked when riding, without compromising the horse's health i.e. wouldnt jump/ride on hard ground if arthritic/navicular, wouldnt endlessly school in circles on an arthritic horse, would over exercise an unfit horse. I would therefore expect to be able to choose to hack/school/jump the horse otherwise.

If I am exercising someone else's horse for them then I do as I am told.

Sounds like this isnt the most ideal share for you. Yes, it might be a privilege to ride somethign working elementary at home ... but not if you arent allowed to actually ride it. I would find something else - there are plenty of RC horses out there that can bring you on a bit and then you can have some fun. No point losing sleep over it!

[eml]

Sounds like a mismatch of owner and sharer.

I know an owner who will only do dressage, is petrified of hacking and jumping, she found a sharer who hacks out and pops over the yards XC course. I don't think she would mind her schooling if it was wet or horrible but just not routinely

This is much better for the horse than doing the same sort of work every day

[amandal]

The owner doesn't want a sharer she wants someone to exercise her horse. And why on earth would she say the sharer has to jump if the school's not suitable for jumping in the winter.

I have a sharer, she shares Ziz because I trust her implicitly. If I didn't and was to give her orders about what she could or couldn't do to fit round my riding I don't think I'd have sharer for long.

[Dooley]

Sounds like a mismatch of owner and sharer.

I know an owner who will only do dressage, is petrified of hacking and jumping, she found a sharer who hacks out and pops over the yards XC course. I don't think she would mind her schooling if it was wet or horrible but just not routinely

This is much better for the horse than doing the same sort of work every day

Fully agree.
Owner needs to find a sharer who wants to either hack or jump and not (regularly) school the horse on the flat (and that probably means someone who can ride durin th day so light is not an issue in winter).
Sharer needs to find a horse that she's allowed to school on a regular basis.

The fact that the owner is doing well and progressing now probably adds to the problem rather than taking away from it. She now probably feels that it is more frustrating to have schooling discrepancies with the sharer than before. It's a shame for the sharer but these things happen. What is a perfect arrangement today can become not so perfect next moth. Things change. We just have to learn to accept this and move on when things don't work out any longer.

[alwaysfallingof]

If I were the sharer I would not be happy with the deal. You say that she prefers doing flatwork, that she wouldn't be able to hack out in winter and that the horse isn't fun to jump then either.
So...she'd be paying above average costs and getting very little enjoyable riding time out of it.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to compete and bring your horse on, but I don't think you can do this to do this AND expect someone to contribute costs and only do the bits you don't want to...unless the owner can find a sharer who wants to spend the winter jumping a spooky horse in the dark! Another option may be to swap one of the sharer's day to the weekend so that she could hack out in daylight...?

Are you the owner or the sharer by the way? I'm nosy!:)

[HashRouge]

Obviously the owner of a horse is entitled to stipulate what other people can and can't do around that horse. However, if you decide to share your horse and ask the other person to contribute financially, you cannot expect to dictate every little thing they do with the horse. The owner sounds like she is being quite unreasonable, and perhaps she ought not have a sharer if she wants to control everything her horse does.

[melmo1313]

To be honest, as a sharer myself I wouldn't be happy being told I couldn't do schooling work. I share 2 days a week, pay money towards it and will do all the jobs quite happily. To the same degree, I agree with one of the earlier posts in that unless the horse is physically incapable and unless you were told at the time when you agreed to share, I don't see what the problem is with you also doing dressage. For me, it would be more annoying because the owner had previously encouraged the sharer to participate more in dressage, taken them to shows etc .. and then suddenly does a U Turn. If it had been made clear from the start that the owner would prefer the sharer to do more jumping and hacking then fair enough you know what you are getting into.

When I first started sharing, the owner and I were very clear with each other. She is a happy hacker who needs someone to help with costs and chores and ride him out a bit more. I was clear that I like to do a bit of everything and even said I eventually wanted to ride Western and she gave her blessing for me to teach him this. We both want to do the best by the horse, he is fat and unfit right now!

[The Original Crazywoman]

I think it is unreasonable given that it will be too dark to hack soon, and you can only ride in the school. I tend to ask my sharer to have a couple of lessons with my instructor so that we are both riding in a similar way, and working on the same things. Surely you could do some basic transitions and simple flatwork.

However, I can see the owner's point of view in some ways.

I wish I could find a good sharer like you, who is willing to put the effort in - they are really hard to come by, and I seem to always end up with someone that is neither commited nor reliable. Perhaps I should ask them to contribute financially - at the moment I don't, so they have a very good deal.

[doorstopper]

Just had another thought as well - if the sharer is doing prelim dressage and competing, she must take it pretty seriously and be riding reasonably well. Maybe the owner is finding she isn't getting as good results from her horse because she isn't riding him as often (due to having a sharer)?

As far as I see it as someone completely emotionally unconnected, the sharer would be better off finding a horse where she could do what she wants, and the owner would be better off looking after the horse for herself, finding a more experienced rider or finding a rider who only wants to jump.

[Hullabaloo]

Having been in a similar situation I can sort of see the owner's point of view if they have put a lot of work into their horse and are worried about seeing that negated. However, I think they then need to decide whether they should have a sharer at all if they are going to be so restrictive. If you take money from a sharer then you do have to offer something reasonable in return.

In my case I didn't take any money so felt quite within my rights to restrict the person helping me to flatwork as I didn't trust her not to overjump my horse or to be sensible hacking him. She wasn't happy with the arrangement so we called it a day.

I realise it is difficult giving up a share horse you've grown to love and have fun on, but the owner is always going to have the final say. If the arrangement isn't giving you want you want, maybe finding a new share is the answer.

[sadiesparkle]

I think its pretty unreasonable to be honest - if it was me I'd probably be after a new share horse!

If you are serious about competing. then perhaps having a sharer at all isn't a good move and would be better for all parties?

You could try the lessons though - I'd be lost without Karsteine to remind me what I'm doing!

xxx

[disgruntled]

Did you have any sort of agreement written down when you took the share on? Sounds like things started out differently and now the goalposts have been changed! I think I would vote with my feet personally..

[Badgerer]

He everyone thanks for all the replies so far.
If it isn't obvious from my original post then I am the sharer.
And yep, I'm pretty unhappy with what the owner has said and need to work out how to reply.
I've shared a couple of horses before and been able to do whatever I want (within reason of course), but then neither of those horses were used for competing, so this is a step up in horses and riding for me if you like, and I really appreciate that and have learnt loads and really improved riding this horse, and want that to continue if possible.
I have lessons on this horse when I can, which is when the instructor can fit me in and I can afford it, which works out about once every 3-4 weeks.
At the outset the owner said she didn't jump, and so wanted someone who would, and I said I'd do a mixture of flat and jumping and riding round the fields and she said she was fine with that. We don't have any written agreement.
I don't mind doing more jumping, and admit I have been doing more flatwork recently, especially as the owner had said I can do a dressage comp at the yard in a few weeks time, I've no idea what the situation is with that now! But don't want to cut out the dressage work completely as I enjoy it. Equally I don't want owner to turn round and say don't share and to have to find another horse to share as this works so well in many ways!
hmmm, dilemma indeed..........

[KateWooten]

How do you feel about continuing the share ? To me, I wouldn't want to, because I do not want to hack and jump a horse who I can not maintain a relationship with - In the School ! I think schooling and flatwork are absolutely vital in any horse-rider relationship.

So to me, I wouldn't want to continue, but the decision is then only whether to continue or not. She's the owner, and she can impose whatever rules she likes - it's not for you to decide if they're reasonable or not, only whether you can agree to them or not. As for the cost - if you think you are paying too much - offer less. Again, it's not about what's reasonable, only what you both agree to.

[theocat]

In your shoes, I would simply say that schooling was what I enjoy, and although it has been great fun, it sounds as though the change in circumstances means you are probably not the best person to be sharing the horse any longer.

The secret of a good share is that both parties benefit, but circumstances can and do change. The owner now needs someone who will hack or jump, so perhaps someone who doesn't work, and can hack out during the day, whereas you need to find a horse that you can school and do dressage with.

You do say this share is otherwise excellent, but in that case I'd say better to end it on a happy note than go on with something you aren't happy with, which might turn it sour.

In your shoes, you should have no problem finding another good share! You sound pretty competent, and plenty of owners who like hacking themselves would love a sharer who'd keep the horse in regular schooling - and in a situation where you are "improving" the horse, the financial costs might even be a bit lower in recognition of that!

[Hullabaloo]

She's the owner, and she can impose whatever rules she likes - it's not for you to decide if they're reasonable or not, only whether you can agree to them or not. As for the cost - if you think you are paying too much - offer less. Again, it's not about what's reasonable, only what you both agree to.

Agree with this. At the end of the day if you continue the share you will have to go along with what the owner wants. If you feel this is unreasonable, or it isn't what you want then your only option really is to call it a day and find another horse to share.

[lottie.dot]

Yes, I agree also.

It is her horse and she obviously doesn't want someone doing the same thing as herself, as it just isn't fair on the horse to be doing flatwork, day in and day out.

This is why share horses are good, when you find the right balance which isn't the case anymore, thus upsetting the balance.

I would find another horse, where maybe someone likes hacking and jumping so you can concentrate on the flatwork side.
x

[wibble]

but surely on hacks you do dressage moves even if its inadvertantly. Whhen you move the horse over or traffic or open a gate. If you are having the lessons with the same instructor I see no issue with you doing flatwork some of the time. I think all horses should have some variety, 7 days doing dressage in the school is boring.

She can't have it all ways, you paying the money but her dictating quite so much, why has she got a sharer if she doesn't want you to school at all?

I have been a sharer in the past and now have a sharer myself. I hope I am not restrictive, on Heucherellas days she can do whatever she wants be it schooling (she has had a lesson with my instructor) or hacking. There are very few don'ts apart from don't canter every time you hit grass or in the same spot every time out hacking. I am paranoid about making sure I am not an interferring annoying owner!

Good Luck:)

[Mary Poppins]

I actually think that the owner is being reasonable. She said at the start that she was looking for someone to jump and hack her horse - therefore giving him a varied workload.

Could you hack him out at the weekend instead?

[Badgerer]

Well just to update you, the owner has just said she doesn't want me to share the horse anymore, no notice or anything, just like that!

I feel pretty upset, if I was stopping sharing I would give her a months notice to find another sharer if she wanted, I've not been given any notice at all. I had also arranged with the instructor to have a lesson on the horse in a couple of weeks time in preparation for the dressage comp at the yard she said I could do. I had to re-arrange my plans so I could do the dressage comp in the first place, so now I've got to hope I can cancel the lesson and re-arrange back plans, plus I was really looking forward to doing the comp, and now I'm not going to get the chance to, which is what I'm most upset about.

In summary I replied to her saying she didn't want me to do any flat work only jumping or hacking saying I was happy to do lots more jumping and hacking when I rode, but not to not do any flatwork at all ever, and that even jumping required flat work to warm up, and hacking out involved flat work too so not doing any flat work when I rode was was unavoidable.

Of course she's the owner and can do exactly what she wants at the end of the day, I just feel very disappointed and upset its ended how it is. :(

[atillathefun]

I am sorry to hear that but it sounds as though it wouldn't have worked anyway. As soon as it gets to the point of conflict within a share I think its inevitable that it will end.

Can you find another one to share on the same yard or locally so you can still do the comp?

There will be plenty more comps in the future so dont feel too down about it :D

[loopy1]

maybe she comes on here and recognised the situation and put 2+2 together

[Badgerer]

I'm pretty certain she wouldn't have come on here, besides I don't think I've said anything on here I wouldn't say to anybody anyway.
Anyway looks like I'm looking for a new share now, lets hope I can find something even better (trying to stay positive here!)
Compiling a list of websites to look at now, any recommendations?

[loopy1]

no but some people can take the hump over anything


there is a thred (moomoo i think) about sharers and there are lots of sites on there

if you were local you could come to me (NE) and school to your hearts content :)

[hacks 4 fun]

Echo what Loopy says - if you were near (North East too hehe) me you could dressage yourself silly - have a very nice, eager - and posh when he wants to be - 16.3hh fella who would love it!

[loopy1]

we could share her hacks4fun :)

you arent far from me so you could have her mornings and i'll take afternoons, lol

[hacks 4 fun]

Heheheh - sounds like a plan!..... also have a very naughty diva (but stupidly pretty) cross hippo that requires some serious moulding should Badgerer fancy a huge challenge...

[loopy1]

oh well if youre going for two, i also have another, diva, quite quite mental (or misunderstood :) ) that requires a willing sacrifice, umm, i mean rider...

[Badgerer]

Ah if only you were the other side of the country!

[loopy1]

shame, you had 4 loverley beasties all ready for you to do your stuff with, lol

id like to find someone here that could be bothered to school and compete but it doesnt seem so easy, sigh

[hacks 4 fun]

Exactly - I've tried in the past and got;

joyriders.. :mad:
a child that cried because it was cold....:eek:
a 'highly experienced with youngsters etc etc type' who my ploddy dive reduced to tears in oooh 20 mins, :D
nervous wreck - of course its sensible to reply to an advert to ride a 4 yr old 16.3hh clydesdale x TB when youre a nervous nelly :D


That being said we did have one sharer who was FAB, sensible, an interest on competing, took plenty professional lessons with flash trainers..... just doubt I'll be as lucky again pah!

[loopy1]

there are a couple of locals that are always hinting, offering and outright asking to ride my horses but theres not a chance in hell
i know for certain i couldnt trust them not to leather them up and down all day and break them, and im not spending time and effort on good horses to have joyriders undo all my work
one of the girls had her own little horse and thought it was fun to teach it to rear, until it started going up and over with her, so she sold it to another novice...

[un1corn]

Badgerer.. keep looking and good luck, good owners are out there!! My ex shares owner is fab and were still good friends even though I no longer share her boy..

I love schooling, was going to get the 101 schooling exercises to do with my share but never got the chance!!

So there are good sharers out there too hacks 4 fun and loopy1!!!!

[loopy1]

youre local to us both too un1corn! all the northern lot :)

did you find something then?

[un1corn]

Have pm'd you Loopy1