Escorted hacks anyone???

[Kazzie]

I'm doing a bit of research into whether there is a market for escorted hacks. The type of thing we had in mind was to get two or three good safe horses and take out people who are already capable riders. We may also offer a 'care and share' system - so that people who would like more than just a ride now and again could have a horse for the day on a regular basis.

We already run a livery yard and so have the facilities - our yard is also at the foot of the South Downs and so have fantastic hacking.

We've often been asked whether we hire horses out - which we don't at present and we've never really looked into it seriously. I just heard that yet another local riding school has closed which means there's even less opportunity for those without their own horse to ride. So, maybe this is the time to start out... but then again its a big step!

Can I ask for some feedback please? - Do you know of a yard that offers this already, if so is it succssful? How much would you be prepared to pay for say a 2 hour hack on a good horse?

Any comments or ideas would be welcome.

Thanks

[lottie.dot]

Sorry - Do you own your own yard?
x

[disgruntled]

I used to go to a similar place called "horse affairs" that did hacks only for decent riders. Sadly it is no more and once again we struggle to find good hacking! I think insurance will be your biggest hurdle, sadly it is the reason so many riding centres are closing. Liability these days is a real problem with people suing for the slightest thing..

[melmo1313]

Yup, insurance will be a pain, but I worked at a Western place out in the US that did escorted trail rides around her own property (but she used to do it in a local beauty spot). She was very popular, both for complete beginners (always at a walk and with several helpers in between!) and more experienced riders. I would say always have a worker at the front and back of the ride at least, to keep an eye out, make sure everyone is OK, and make sure you have good experienced horses!

She charged the same as a lesson for an hour hack ... and it was always a full hour. Horses were ready for riders when they arrived, whereas on the lessons full horse care was taught. I think it was about $30 for an hour's hack.

[essexlady]

Like wise I use to ride at Horse Affairs and loved it.
It was a shame it came to an end.
It gave me great hacking on very nice horses and good company to hoot, I never found anything similar in my area at all.

Now I have my own horse so I would only be looking for a hacking centre while on holiday and generally they only w/t.

Im not sure about insurance and running costs but as a rider I think is certainly a great idea :)

[disgruntled]

Yeh, I used to ride the big lanky chestnut, Lucas, he went like a bomb! We had some good gallops there and it was one of the few places where actually going fast hadn't been outlawed as too risky! Shame it closed..

[alwaysfallingof]

]The type of thing we had in mind was to get two or three good safe horses and take out people who are already capable riders.

It sounds like a lovely idea, but I think you'll come across the problem of people over-stating their abilities, either intentionally or unintentionally. Would you have a system where you had to see people ride first, would you require them to be able to walk, trot and canter, and what would your contingency plan be if you discover once you've set out that someone has no idea what they're doing.

As a rider, I'd absolutely love it. But for the organiser I think it could potentially be a logistical nightmare!

[disgruntled]

Some places stipulate that you must be able to WTC and test you in a menage first. Said places will then offer you a lesson instead if you are not up to scratch. As a "riding tourist" I've had this lots and I don't mind demonstrating my ability for five minutes before we go out if need be. Better that than the other end of the spectrum, where you turn up to ride and someone on the hack can't actually ride after all so everyone has to go slowly!

[Dooley]

There are certainly places who do things like it, yes!
Down in Surrey/Sussex there's "Hacking with a Difference", (ex raace horses I believe?), there's another place like it near Shere in Surrey but I can't remember the name, there's somewhere that does escorted hacks in Windsor Great Park (but they might be a RS who also take people on hacks who don't have lessons there, so would have the necessary licenses already).

I don't think you can just do it without any licenses I think you have to be similar to RS? But am not sure.

Sounds great for people you know can ride, and not just in a school either ;-) But starting off with an assessment in the school would be a must I'd say.

Would be lovely for people who haven't got their own horse or who don't have nice hacking where they are.
let us all know if you go ahead with it!

[ginakatie]

Hi, I paid £65 for a 2 hour hack with Cumbrian Heavy Horses around the Lake District. Was excellent but as the above poster said, we got trapped on a ride with a novice so definately test them out first as I was a bit miffed at spending that just to plod!

When I didn't have my own horse, I would have jumped at the chance of 'renting' a horse for a day depending on price...But you would need to add things (like a competition or something???) to make it different enough from horseless people just hanging out for the day with their existing horsey friends.

[Denbenj]

Renting a horse for a day sounds a good idea, but I would be worried about people overdoing it with them - Its easy to see if they can ride, but what about there horsemanship skills!

Escorted hacks are always popular I reackon, but like others say insurance I expect will be the killer:cool:

[FayeObs]

Most riding schools round here do hacks, one place even lets you take their horses out without anyone else. (Obviously they check your ability first).

I'd maybe go down the route of escorting young horses/nervous riders... maybe theres a market? I could do with that right now lol

[lala1984]

I would def be interested in this type of thing. I am returning to riding after a long (14 year:o) break and am looking to get as much riding as possible. I am obviously looking to have some lessons etc before I would go for one of these hacks but that just cos I want to brush up my skills and make sure I'm as capable as possible for the horses sake.
One thing I have noticed is that most places won't take anyone over 13 stone, so if you could provide larger, reliable and safe cob types for the bigger rider I would imagine you could get interest from that part of the market.
The own a horse for a day would be ideal for someone like me who used to know all about the daily stuff but has gone a bit rusty due to the time away or for someone who has been riding at a school but wants to learn more before getting their own horse.
Keep me posted if you do decide to go ahead as I'm sure I would be down for a own a horse day or even some good hacking:)

[abisheridee]

In terms of hiring horses out, maybe you should chat to the FreeRein people in Wales- they hire horses out for 2-7 day UNACCOMPANIED treks, where you have nightly stops at designated BnBs. A couple of NRs have done it and all of them loved it. I've always wondered what rules they have in place to stop the horses being mis-treated, so I'm sure they can help you no end with this :)

[Wally]

The costs will not be recouped in insurance and riding school locence and stuff. Not just for two or three horses.

[Kazzie]

Thanks everyone for your replies. There's obviously a lot to take into consideration - but it seems like there would be interest. I'll get in touch with the places mentioned and see if they can give me advice.

We have spare space at the yard to keep at least three horses at the moment so whatever we might do will be small to start with. A private lesson in this area is around the £40 per hour mark - would folk be willing to pay the same for a hack?

Wally, would we need a riding school licence if there was no teaching involved? We would only take those who can already ride (would do a riding assessment in the school before taking anyone out).

[disgruntled]

I was talking to a school owner about this once. I think there is a way around the insurance side. The idea was more of a private riding club with paying members and part of the membership rights was access to the "clubs" horses. I can't remember exactly how they got round it but it was along those lines and because it technically wasn't the public, it was treated differently.. was a few years back but worth looking into loopholes that stop you having to reg' as a riding centre.

[Wally]

Anyone who hires out horses whether it be for teaching or taking money to allow them to ride, sadly, needs a riding school licence.

That is a real pain in the bottom. Vet check on every horse, tack, stables etc.

[disgruntled]

I think they paid to be in the "club" not to ride the horses. They rode for free... it was some clever legal loophole :) :)

mind you, knowing this country... said loophole is probably now tightly shut..

[Kazzie]

I was talking to a school owner about this once. I think there is a way around the insurance side. The idea was more of a private riding club with paying members and part of the membership rights was access to the "clubs" horses. I can't remember exactly how they got round it but it was along those lines and because it technically wasn't the public, it was treated differently.. was a few years back but worth looking into loopholes that stop you having to reg' as a riding centre. I think they paid to be in the "club" not to ride the horses.

Thats really interesting Disgruntled. A Club :D With the right people it could work well. It may be looked on in the same way as if a horse owner had sharers as far as insurance, etc goes.

Here's hoping that loophole is still open!

[eml]

I think the Riding Schools Act is fairly clear. Anyone using an equine for reward needs a licence, from donkey rides to lessons! To be honest it is not a vast expense..about £100 to the local authority plus vets fees for what is essentially a 2 Stage vetting which will vary according to how many horses you have.

Insurance is needed...any of your club members could sue you, doesn't matter what you call it there is no escape from being liable for unsafe practice and you need to be insured to cover the 'chancers' who try to claim.

We have several people locally who take 'friends' out for rides for money. Recently one, not as experienced as she said, 'friend' was killed, there is an ongoing manslaughter case.

Don't cut corners it is not impossible to run a small legal enterprise.

[Wally]

There is a very clear legal test case about clubs and societies. I cannot remember the precise case..... If the only thing preventing you from being a member of a club is a fee then you are on a very sticky wicket. If you need to be a solicitor or a vet or a Doctor to join the legal implications are different.


Be very careful, it might not be a loop hole at all but a noose around your neck.

[Hammie]

I think the Riding Schools Act is fairly clear. Anyone using an equine for reward needs a licence, from donkey rides to lessons! To be honest it is not a vast expense..about £100 to the local authority plus vets fees for what is essentially a 2 Stage vetting which will vary according to how many horses you have.

Insurance is needed...any of your club members could sue you, doesn't matter what you call it there is no escape from being liable for unsafe practice and you need to be insured to cover the 'chancers' who try to claim.

We have several people locally who take 'friends' out for rides for money. Recently one, not as experienced as she said, 'friend' was killed, there is an ongoing manslaughter case.

Don't cut corners it is not impossible to run a small legal enterprise.

So how are sharers not included in this? Is it because the owner is not making a profit? Just curious... And if the owner were charging enough to make a profit would they have to be licenced?

[disgruntled]

well, I know someone who DID do it, worth an hour of a horsey solicitors time to find out.. I know the people involved would not have done anything illegal but who knows, the law may have changed now. :cool:

[Wally]

Shares are a private agreement, riding schools and taking folk on hacks is dealing with public.

[icegirl]

What would happen if you took steps to get to know a select bunch of the "public" first by, for example, starting a club with social activity. Could you then class them as friends? We did something like this a few years back with a cycle group.

[eml]

I do know of places where the riders are all part sharers of the ponies/horses who belong to the owner. To all intents and purposes they operate as an RS and pay the owner for their share and seperately for tuition. The owner does exercise very tight control over what people may do or not do with the horses.

I don't know how 'legal' the set up is as it is seen to be operating as a livery yard by outside authorities

Strikes me as far easier just to get licenced and insured!!

[Kazzie]

Sounds very much like it all needs to be up and above board with regard to insurance/licence, etc then.

Obviously we're insured to run the yard and I do know how the sueing culture affects us. We had someone recently trying to take a claim out on us because we had an case of Strangles. We were one out of five yards within a couple of miles from each other who had Strangles at that time, yet she felt we were to blame and, more importantly, should pay! We also had a parent who asked me to guarantee her daughter's safety - we're a DIY yard and it was her own horse. I told her we do everything we can to make the yard a safe place (I'm NEBOSH qualified - so I do know how to go about doing this) but at the end of the day I could not guarantee anything - horses can at times be unpredictable.

I still think it may be worth seriously looking into though. Has anyone any more advice on what people are likely to pay for, say a 2 hour guided hack?

Thanks

[Dooley]

Has anyone any more advice on what people are likely to pay for, say a 2 hour guided hack?

Thanks

I think I paid £55 for 2 hours in Windsor Great Park about two years ago on a w/e. It was slightly cheaper during the week. No idea if the prices have gone up since though.

http://www.hwad.co.uk/hwad5.htm - these people charge £58 for 2 hrs.

[Wally]

Don't know what the costs are everywhere else but a licence here is about £100, vets fees, depending on how long they are there????? £100 per hour?? ish. Not beyond the realms of reality.

[Fleabitten]

A 2 hour guided hack on the beach near-ish to us costs £35:

http://www.rideonthebeach.co.uk/