Seperation anxiety

[Sarah]

hello!

I was wondering if anyone has any top tips on how to get our two horses apart! WE have had a loan horse, Doodle, for 2 months now and she is super in all aspects apart from she gets very stressed when we take Tango away from her (or her away from Tango ), see this post http://www.newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=20444

Seeing as we now no longer have a napping problem under saddle, we need to be able to tackle the problem when trying to take one horse out the field. To expain teh yard a bit, Tnago are the only 2 in a field which has no other horses in sight from it. The main yard area (where we feed, tack up etc) is not visible from the field so as far as Doodle is concerned, if Tango goes out the field and round the corner, she has clearly been eaten by monsters.

We can lead Tango away from Doodle (or Doodle away from Tango) as far as we like, so long as Doodle can still see Tango, it is as soon as we get out of her view that she flips. i clearly don't want to have another accident like last week, so we really do need to be able to get round this as there will be times when we need to be able to handle each horse by herself.

The usual approach of taking Tango away, then when Doodle calms down returning her is not a way i wnt to go as I don't wnat to repeat the accident we had. I can't think of another way forward though!

Doodle seems to trust us on the ground (if Tango is there) and is very happy to follow us round with no headcollar in the school, round the yard and in teh field.

Anyone got any top tips?

bye!

[Waikato Valuta]

How about trying to take her out of the paddock walking her a few steps and then taking her back. Keep incresing the distance untillshe dose not mind you being quite far away. Then take her behind the building and straight back into sight again again. But dont put her back untill they are ok with being out of sight for 2 seconds and then work on incresing the time from there. Or take them both out of the paddock and walk them away from each other into diferent stables for a few min and then back untill they get happy with tha. ext.......

[galadriel]

http://newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13500
:)

[ros]

I suspect the answer to this one is the same answer you give to people who want to lose weight - the only way to do it is to stop eating. (Lose weight, that is :D )

And really, I don't think you'll ever stop a horse getting over-anxious about being separated if you allow it never to BE separate. Which is exactly what Jackie has always done with Swallow, and she's always suffered for it. Pain in the bum, because it isn't only Jackie who has to worry about it - I worry too when I take Merlin out and Swallow is on her own, whinnying and trotting up and down the fence, and her with her sidebone and DJD and all that :rolleyes:

Having said that, it's still really quite early days with Doodle, and mares often bond more strongly than geldings - I expect she'll settle sooner or later provided you don't let her bully you into letting her have her own way ALL the time ;) . As Galadriel says, if you can get them used to being separated for short periods in controlled circumstances they'll get their heads round it, I'm sure.

[Rakeli]

I read an article about this by Heather Simpson, and basically what she said was to teach the horse that their friend will always come back. I think the stages she used were first just leading the other horse out and then putting them back in, then leading away but still in sight, then out of sight moving straight back again and just building it up. I think she also gave the other horse feed when it's pair-bond had gone. As soon as the horse learnt that they will come back, she relaxed.

It might also be worth trying some Bach Flower remedies on her, to relax her when Tango goes away. If that worked, it would lessen your worry of her hurting herself again. It would also be useful if one person could lead Tango away and another stay with Doodle, to make sure that she didn't hurt herself. Maybe having a headcollar on her and asking her to do something that will make her think, like raised poles or clicker training.

Is she OK now?

[galadriel]

Be careful if you offer feeds or treats. You do not want to reinforce negative behavior--never feed a horse who's started to act up. If you're planning to go that route, feed *before* you take the other horse away.

I don't like it because I hate giving food to a horse who is excited, has very recently been excited, or is about to be excited. Horses with serious pair bonds can ignore food in favor of screaming/pacing, and I'd hate for the horse to get halfway through a meal then start screaming, pacing, sweating and lose the a bility to digest properly (yikes).

I really think the best way to go about it is in small stages, and what you reinforce is the horses being calm. If you're worried about one of the horses hurting himself (which is something I can relate to; Duchess pulled something in her stifle once pacing frantically), then do the stay-within-the-comfort-zone thing. Take one horse away and bring it back before either starts to freak. Reward both horses. Take the horse slightly further next time, then further, then further, etc. Always stop BEFORE either horse starts to show signs on tension. If you make the separation non-stressful and reward it also, you know, you should be able to progress that way.

[Sarah]

hello!

Thanks for all your helpful replies. The problem with trying to take Tango away, then coming back, then going further away, etc is that Doodle is fine so long as she can see Tango, and we can only really go a distance of about 50m from the field before we are out of sight and it is only when Tango goes out of sight that Doodle gets stressed. I can take Tango right to the corner (when we would otherwise disappear from Doodle) and Doodle will be perfectly happy, but try to take Tango round the corner and the trouble start.

i am wondering if we should aske hte farmer if we can move fields so that Doodle and Tango are next to the other field with 3 horses in it ont he farm, then at least if Tango goes, Doodle will not be totally isolated. Do you think that might work?

bye!

[ros]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it would. Swallow will usually settle if there are horses out in the field next to hers.

[galadriel]

Yea, probably!

Duchess was very much the same--would flip out if she lost sight of Kat. Unfortunately, after I'd worked so hard on getting them to accept being separated, I ended up moving them twice in two weeks (was NOT my original intention, believe me) and they got really insecure again.

I could walk Kat down the aisle of the barn, as long as Duchess could see her. As soon as we left the barn and Duchess couldn't see anymore, she'd flip out.

By going veeeeery slowly--I mean inches a day--I eventually managed to take Kat around the corner, just out of sight, grazing on the grass around the side of the barn. I started out letting her graze while still entirely in sight of the barn, for about 15 mins. Next day, a few inches further; next day, a few more inches; her head & neck were past the visual barrier. Eventually I could take her completely past the corner and Duchess would be tense, but not thrashing in her stall. That's when I moved them to FL, so no further progress, but I am sure it would have been the same...soon I'll have my own little place and I won't have to keep MOVING them.

[Sarah]

Righty ho, well I shall see how we get on with the vet this morning (it may be stitches out and turn out time) then have a chat with Tom (the farmer) and see if we can move fields. Shouldn't be a problem - he only really has horses on his farm to act as lawnmowers and there are a lot of fields that need to be mowed!

bye!

[Sarah]

i didn't speak to Tom at lunchtime as I didn't need to - the girls are getting one more week of box rest as the wound isn't quite ready to be left to its own devises. ho hum

[LCA]

Oh I can sympathise - the horse I ride is very strongly bonded to another horse and they are owned by the same person so are stabled next to each other when they come in to get fed etc. The one I ride though the worse of the pair. When I bring her in as soon as she is in the stable the pacing and vocals start (and she can be very loud). The other horse is not so bad - if she has food she is more content. When I go to ride in the arena myself it sometimes feels like an explosion is about to go on underneath me - very tense, elevated steps, rushing, tanking in trot and always trying to come across the diagonal and to the door - and screaming her head off. I try and work her through it by making her do something difficult like a small circle when she starts screaming because then it makes her think and takes her mind off things (though only for a short while). Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. She is described as fizzy and spooky when on her own but ride her in the arena with her pair bond or any of the other horses and you would not believe she was the same horse ! I have just accepted that is the way she is, I think it is down to the way she was handled when younger - never brought in to get used to being on her own always with another horse and at 16 I don't think she is about to change. How old is doodle ? Can you bring her in and leave her in the stable by herself for a while so she gets used to being on her own or does she only get crazy when in the field by herself. The only good thing about it is that I have gained confidence in my riding by learning to control her when she is being highly strung. I hope you manage to solve your problems soon as it can make things impossible at competetions - I know one lady who had to sell one of her horses because the two she took to competitions were pair bonded and when one was in the arena the other would call from the lorry and turn the one in the arena into a bucking bronco !

Good luck sorting them out.

[Sarah]

Doodle is rising 5, so still very much a baby (especially as she had been turned away last winter and not handled).

I can't really bring her in and leave her in a stable as we don't have a stable (well we do at the moment while they are on box rest, but when Doodle is mended they will be back to being outdoors 24/7). Also, if we did that I think she would flip and I don't want another lacerated leg!

The napping problem is no longer a problem under saddle, it only is a problem now on the ground which is strange!

bye!