Bebe is lame, again - v worried

[Bebe]

Hi

I've already posted a couple of times re: my horse going lame after using a not so great farrier. I thought we had it sorted when a new farrier came out and reshod her so her hooves looked fantastic. Within a week of being reshod she was sound and has been for the last 2 weeks.

Until last night, she's now lame again in exactly the same way as before. No heat, swelling, etc and she is actually quite happy to plow around like a lunatic so I'm not convinced she's in pain as such.

I have the vet coming this afternoon for annual jabs so am going to ring and ask if he can give her a onceover whilst he's here to see what he thinks. However, my gut feeling is that hoof balance is still a problem. Her hooves weren't fixable in one trim and shoeing, which I fully understand. It's 3 weeks since she was shod and her hooves have grown a fair bit and are obviously out of balance again. I can't have her shod on a 3 weekly basis, funds and hoof wall won't allow for it.

So, unless the vet has some startling observations, my gut feeling is to pull all 4 shoes, transition her to barefoot and have her feet checked on a 3 weekly basis to keep them in balance. If she comes sound in the field I'll purchase some Old Mac boots and lightly work her and see how we get on. I know she'll be lame in front without shoes so would it be a good idea to get some bute off the vet to give her for the first week or so just to take the edge off?

If I was to do this, what is the best way to transition her? I don't really care how long it takes as long as I have the chance of a sound horse at the end of it. I have almost unlimited time (minus work hours) to spend doing whatever I need to do, she has 24/7 turnout on 43 acres but as of today is being brought in for 5 hours per day to keep her off the grass as she is slightly overweight. Whilst she's stabled she'll be on rubber mats. We have a woodchip outdoor school, very hard dirt tracks and a gravel/dirt/stone lane that she can be walked on.

Any help appreciated. My gut feeling says its her hooves that are causing the problem, namely the lack of hoof balance.

Thanks
Amanda

[nat17]

Amanda,

Same boat as me with the lame horse all the time but different problem.!!
I cant offer any good advice on Bebe but i can relate to the lame horse problem. I would do as you say and ask the vet to check her out when he/she comes and go from there. ::mad: :D

[Bebe]

Nat,

It's pants isn't it!! Will see what vet says, just hope he comes early in the afternoon as I don't think I can wait much longer.

How's your girl doing at the minute?

Amanda

[nix]

Hi Amanda,

Sorry to hear she's lame again :( ... I haven't seen your other posts, so was wondering how long ago she had the probs? It could be that there is still bruising there or possibly even an abcess lurking ... I've had that problem with Harve before, if so the vet should pick up on it and at least that is an easily solved problem.

When H went barefoot when off work once, the advice the farrier gave me was to use Keratex Hoof Hardener daily for about 10 days and then three times a week. To walk him over as many different surfaces as possible (whether in hand or turned out) and to try to stand him in water (large puddle or stream) if possible also on a daily basis. This advice did seem to help while he was barefoot, but he was still a bit sore at times, being a typical flatfooted, thin-soled TB!! :rolleyes:

I found this website on the Intelligent Horsemanship forum about keeping equines barefoot ... www.ibem.org.uk

Hope this helps :)

Nix, Harve & Zig

[Bebe]

Hi Nix

Thanks for your help. It's a bit of a long story but basically the lameness appeared about 2-3 months ago originally (early March), got the farrier out and he tested her hooves for pain (abscess, bruising, etc) but couldn't find anything. I didn't like the way her front shoes were sitting so despite them only being fitted 2 weeks beforehand, I made him redo them. She came sound about 2 days later.

She was sound for another couple months but went lame shortly before she was due to be shod (this would be the 2nd shoeing after she was first lame). Farrier came out and told me I was neurotic! Rested her for another 2 weeks whilst waiting for new farrier to come out. He came, grimaced at the state of her feet and rebalanced and reshod her. She came sound a week later and has been until yesterday. Looking at her feet the balance is out again, which makes me think that maybe this is the problem.

She doesn't have any heat or swelling present in her hoof or leg. Lameness shows as a shortness of stride, she's dropping the shoulder almost.

I'll see what the vet says and if he doesnt' come up with anything concrete I'll get the farrier back out a.s.a.p. If she has to go barefoot I'll get some Keratex and go from there. Bebe has thin, flat soles on her front hooves but is fine without hind shoes so I might end up having to get some hoof boots or something for her fronts. Will have a look at the site you linked, thanks!

Amanda

[nat17]

Hi Amanda,

Minnie is very lame at the moment, last night she looked better but then went into trot and it was so clear how lame she acutally is. She staying sound for a while and then she cam e galloping down the field to me and the next day 'bang' lame again. I am so frightened of sending her for xrays,( the vet said if i want to be 100% that its just the thoroughpin she needs xrays) I know its selfish but i am petrified that she is gonna have something else bad and its all going to end in tears. I have her on bute for a week at the mo and see how she goes, but i cant bring myself to get the xrays done as i might never get her back if somethings really wrong.
:(
I hope the vet turns up quickly and bebe is ok, i did have a share horse that had the same problem for a while but hers was an absess and you said there is no heat so i shouldnt think its that. :D

[Bebe]

Nat

I know exactly what you mean about not wanting x-rays, last night I was stomping around saying if the vet can't find anything she can just live in the field because time will usually sort most things out. Mostly felt like this as to be honest I'd rather not know if there's anything awful going on. I know it's daft, and if she had to have them I'd get them done but for things that are likely to result in the horse having to be retired or rested in the field for a long time, I'd rather just leave things to time to sort out.

Sorry to hear that she's not doing too well at the minute, must be heartbreaking. If it helps, I have a vague idea of how you feel and it isn't nice at all.

I just keep looking at Bebe and thinking how beautiful she is and how awful it would be to know I could never ride her again. It's not the be all and end all for me, and she's with me for life no matter what, but she loves to hack out and she's such a fun horse to ride that I'd really miss it.

Vet is due at 3pm, fingers crossed!

[nat17]

Amanda,

I am so glad some one understands my fear of xrays, riding is not the be all and end all for me either. Having a horse is not all about the riding for me at all, its a nice part but not everything. I love to look after minnie and pamper her and have her looking healthy. If she had to retire then so be it and she would have a home for life. I hope that in the winter she is sound as she has been all this winter apart from one week.
Minnie enjoys hacking as well and she is a fun ride not as ploddy as i would like but very good in traffic and quick when you ask her. She is very intellegent and i think she would be bored not doing anything all summer but i am sure she would cope!!

Crossing my fingers for you at 3pm.:D

[nix]

My fingers are tightly crossed too :) . Good luck.

Nix, Harve & Zig

PS H's last abcess there was no heat/swelling etc ... I was surprised when the vet found it ... so you never know!

[LindaAd]

Bebe and nat, I know what you mean about not wanting x-rays, but you know time will not sort most things out - many things get worse if you leave them.


You might know if you've been reading my threads, that Barney has had not just x-rays but arthroscopy; I won't know until September if he's going to be ok, but he had damaged the cartilage in his stifle, and if I had left it he would have definitely not been ok. Much better to know, even if it's bad news, then you can deal with it.

I hope it's good news soon for both Bebe and Minnie. Undiagnosable lameness is one of the worst things you can have...

[Sarah]

on a similar topic to Linda... my horse Tango had undiagnosed lameness in one leg that the vet said just to turn her out and leave her for. She then got booted and got a similar injury to Linda's horse and had keyhole surgery too. in the investigation for that probelm, they found that the first problem was a broken pedal bone - easy to fix with 10 weeks box rest, but impossible to fix with turn out!

It may give you far better peace of mind to know what the problem is, then you'll know if turn out and rest is the right way forward, or if some other treatment (which may be as simple as special shoeing) is needed.

i hope all went well this afternoon, do let us know how you got on.

Sarah

[nat17]

I understand what you both have said, Minnies problems has been diagnosed , as a thoroughpin. But when i called the vet and asked why she is lame when all the research me and others(jakes mum..thanks again) did said that it does not normally cause lamesness he said its exactly what i have just said 'normally' .Minnies case is not normal.


In my case rest is all thats going to cure it and a few heavy storms everyday to soften the ground.:D :D

I am awaiting amandas new as well!!!:)

[Bebe]

Hi everyone

Thanks for all your responses!

The vet came and has diagnosed the problem to be hoof imbalance on a large scale (already knew about that). It's compounded by the fact that Bebe has very flat soles on her front hooves, so whilst other horses may cope, she can't. It's going to be a waiting game really, vet thinks she'll come sound again once the farrier has been (in a fortnight) and then may go lame again as the hoof grows and the balance starts to go off again. It could be just one more shoeing that is needed to get her to a point where she stays same, might be more. It will be about a year before her feet are "fixed".

And all because I used a not so great farrier 4 times - just 4 times. Dread to think how bad the problem would be if I'd used him more. Have kind of done other people a favour as if Bebe hadn't gone lame, lots of people on the yard would still be using the bad farrier and setting themselves up for long term problems without realising it.

I'm kind of glad in a way, at least this is something that I can live with and fix. Vet said to leave at least front shoes on, possibly use pads if I want her to be rideable as of now but that will be the farriers call.

So, we just have to bide our time and wait until it all sorts itself out with proper trimming. The vet did say that the new farrier is good and to keep hold of him, which is reassuring.

Re: x-rays if they were needed. I would have had them done but with a great deal of trepidation! I'm usually of the mind that I'd rather not know, but know that you can't do this with living creatures. I'd never forgo veterinary treatment just because I felt I couldn't handle a negative diagnosis, no need to worry on that score.

And how good is my vet. The callout was shared between 3 people but Bebe had a full lameness examination (flexion tests, trotting up on hard ground, lunging, etc), Flu and Tetanus annual boosters and she was microchipped, all for the princely sum of £38!! Absolute bargain.

Amanda

[nat17]

So sort of good news for bebe, in the long term anyway. Im please for her and you. Still, bad farriers dont help do they?!

Minnie is having her xrays on tuesday so i hope my news is good long term as well, if its not then never mind, minnie will always be with me now.:D

[galadriel]

Oooh, fingers crossed for Minnie's xrays...maybe it'll turn up something that can be worked on :) :)

So glad to hear about Bebe's prognosis. It may take a while, but you know she'll be okay again. That's so good to know.

[Bebe]

Thanks guys. I'm kicking myself for not following my gut instinct after the first time I wasn't happy with the farriers work but gave him the benefit of the doubt as he was new and he'd done such a good job the first time. Won't do that again!

I'm thinking that this summer will be a write-off riding wise but doesn't matter so long as Bebe is okay in the long run. On the bright side, it'll save me money on lessons that I can't really afford but have anyway!

Nat, will keep my fingers crossed for Minnie too! Let us know how she gets on.

Thanks again
Amanda

[ros]

Hope Bebe comes to soon - summer lay-offs are always a worry.

What damage exactly has the imbalance caused? I know generally speaking an imbalance in the foot can throw everything out, but can we be any more specific here?

[Bebe]

I don't know whether it's damage as such but in Bebe's case the vet thinks that the lameness is caused by pressure on the sole. Because the hoof balance is wrong the tip of the pedal bone is pointing down towards the sole of the hoof. Lots of horse with long toes and/or too high heels will have this but with Bebe it's being combined with very flat and soft soles. So, that combined with hard ground is what seems to be causing the problem. She's much worse on the wood chippings in the school (which must press into the sole) than on concrete, which makes sense.

So, the aim is to get her heels back to where they should be as they are underrun and contracted, so there's no support there. Her toes have already been brought back as far as the farrier dared last time (new farrier, not the one that did it) but they can still come back quite some way. Once this is sorted out her soles should start to become more concave, as they should naturally be although Bebe has always had fairly flat soles but not to this degree, and this should sort out the sudden lameness problems. I'm also using Keratex on her soles to harden them up a bit.

The imbalance in the hoof from side to side should hopefully be corrected for the most part at the next shoeing. It was done as best it could be at the last shoeing but she didn't have enough growth to sort it out properly.

It could be that the next shoeing sorts her out enough for her to be sound and comfortable, but I'm not getting my hopes up. It will be another 9-12 months before her heels will be remotely near to how they should be.