ragwort

[Horsey Bird]

Hi
I'm on a DIY yard, I moved in winter when the summer grazing was non-existant. Now I find we have an awful ragwort problem in our field of 6 mares. Of the 6 owners, only 2 of us are in any way concerned. In the last while, all my free time on the yard has been spent picking ragwort. I literally have spent no time with my horse.

The other owners seem to think I'm just making a fuss over nothing because they havent bothered going up to see what we're talking about. The yard owner (who is wonderful in all other ways) is making a big joke out of it and told another person that she thinks I'm "obsessed" with ragwort.

Well pardon me for pointing this out, but the field is not suitable for grazing horses. The field is absolutely covered with ragwort. Despite all the time I've spent picking it, I havent even gotten the tip of the iceberg and it worries me greatly. I was awake last night thinking what would happen if my horse accidentally ate some (which could happen because I often find that its been trampled, has died and is therefore more palatable to the horses).

So whats my position here? As I said its a DIY yard, but surely they have an obligation to provide grazing suitable for horses? Do I have any rights? That field is currently rented from a farmer but I imagine he has no obligations.

Currently I'm toying with moving but hate the idea of it as I wanted to bring some stability into my mares life (I bought her in January and before that she was moved 3 times in 1.5 years and she's only a baby).

What do you think? I'm considering talking to the owner and saying that for £x per week (its not cheap), I dont think its good enough to offer potentially lethal grazing and make no effort to make it safer, and that unless she rectifies the situation I will have to move because I cannot risk my horses life. I hate doing it and as I say, in all other respects the yard owners are wonderful.

What do you all think?

[AJB]

Hi HB, Im afraid I would move her for her own safety...my friend was "gifted" a lovely coloured horse when she moved to Dorset about 4 years ago and she was suddenly ill-lots of expensive vet tests showed that at some stage she has suffered Ragwort poisioning:( Since then she has been more or less ok but suddenly this summer her fur started falling out big time and she was raw-vet said that it was photosynthasiation(whoops spelling sorry!) and that it was a left over from the ragwort poisioning....I am also paranoid about it at our yard, some of the others are good and take it seriously but the yard owner just says "its yellow therefore they wont eat it and if you kill it they will"....I dig it out and take it home to burn it (sad)...sorry but as first said I would move her unless they sort the situation immediately-horses will settle again and her health has to be paramount.:)

[Bebe]

I'm currently feeling the same way about my livery yard. Our winter grazing, which is used for 9 months of the year is badly infested with Ragwort (aswell as buttercups, of which there seem to be almost as many as there are blades of grass). It was a problem last year, but not to this degree and a few people did get together and spend a day or so trying to clear it, most was removed. Of course, this year we have all the plants that didn't flower last year to deal with, and there seem to be more than ever. So far, I'm the only person who has done any ragwort clearing, I've spent about 15 hours in total clearing bits but I hardly seem to be making a difference (it's a 43 acre field).

The yard owner has said that the field is going to be sprayed(specifically to get rid of the ragwort) in a few weeks when we go onto summer grazing, so I'm hanging on until then. I get the impression that the spraying is a one off thing, and if the roots aren't killed it won't actually make a difference anyway, and even if they are, it will still have to be done next year aswell.

I've pretty much decided that if the situation hasn't improved this time next year, I'm going to have to leave for my horses safety. I'd start looking now but am hoping that the spraying will take place and the field will be safer, plus our summer grazing is ragwort free and we move onto there in 2-4 weeks.

I don't think you'll have much luck with going to the yard owner, but it's worth a try. Your only other option is to move.

[Sarah]

hello!

To be honest, i think if you confronted the yard owner about the fact that they have to sort it out or you'll leave, they'll let you leave! So many people don't care about ragwort that they would be able to fill your slot in no time I'm sure.

I think you have 2 options - either get rid of the ragwort, or move yards.

Just for interest, what part of Somerset are you from?

bye!

[Horsey Bird]

Thanks all for your replies. Its very worrying; so far I've spent 18 hours picking it in last 1.5 weeks and I feel very worried now. I'm not someone who worries over daft things, but this is serious. I'm getting nowhere....and to add insult to injury when I got home after another marathon picking session on saturday night, what did I find in our garden??? Flippin ragwort. Sigh.....

I would laugh if it wasnt so serious. Well, tonight I'm going to start investigating alternative yards. I simply cannot put her life at risk like this....now I just have to find somewhere that will be close enough to home and work to allow me to do the usual morning routine in winter.

BTW Sarah I'm in Weston, not too far from you!

[Sarah]

hmm, so i guess our yard is 'just a bit' too far from you, we have no ragwort at all! the yard is in North Curry, NE of Taunton.

At least if you are looking at yards at this time of year you will be able to check the fields for evil plants quite easily. Good luck in your search.

bye!

[AJB]

out of interst Bebe why are you not yet on the Summer grazing??? it was the longest day last weekend!!!-sigh-sounds like my yard a bit in reverese, we were held on the winter grass so long that the summer paddock was too lush and now we are 8 weeks into strip feeding....meantime the grass grows longer by the day!...buttercups are a sure sign of overgrazing and can be harmful if eaten, ulcers in the mouth and nose and gut problems...sometimes its just so hard being a livery:( I dream of my own fields and Sarah is right, so many people looking for livery that threats of leaving just fall on deaf ears!!-I swore that I would not be at my yard for another winter, I was driven to the egde by gateways of 3 foot mud, restricted turnout and water by the bucket across sodden fields cos the owners too tight to fix the water trough:mad: however in our area land is a rarity and costs the earth..good luck HB and keep us advised in your search

[Big Ears]

I would move immediately if you can, particularly with a young horse as they are more susceptible.

You can get rid of ragwort by:-

Contract spraying - then need to leave it for 4-6 weeks till it dies off

Hand spraying with Barrier H - this is good at the rosette stage when it is too small to pull out successfully - leave for up to ten days till it dies back - it isn;t as good on taller stuff

Pulling - but only successful with plants which are tall enough to get hold of

If the field is really infested, which it sound it is, you are talking about years to eradicate it as there will be seed dormant in the soil and will come up for up to 7 years.

If the yard owner, and the other liveries, are so complacent about their horses, then you are on a hiding to nothing as you will end up spending your entire time dealing with their joint problems. If you complain then quite frankly they will ignore it and say it's up to you. You are unlikely to have any legal redress as you are aware of the problem, and it's down to you if you choose to risk your horse in the field.

You might try the local authority, as they are now supposed to be tightening up on infested fields, though they are one of the major sources of ragwort infestations blowing in from verges.

I think you would find it easier to move to a yard where the problem doesn't exist as otherwise you are going to spend a lot of energy, without support, and still not really be able to solve the problem. You need a contractor to come in, spray one, leave it, come back spray again, until it makes a noticeable difference, and the field can't be used for this time.

I feel sorry for the other horses, as it's a horrible death.

[Salina]

Gosh! thats real neglect on the owners part!
a good livery yard should have a perfectly safe field, not a field for horses to kill themselves!
Can't your mare be stabled?

[western]

May someone post a picture of what ragwort is ? Ive never seen it ? Maybe i have it . Dont know .

[Bebe]

AJB, we're on summer grazing now. It's used for hay so we can only move on after the hay has been cut, which was delayed this year due to one of the farmers going on holiday. Technically it's not summer grazing really as we tend to go on late July/early August and don't come off until the Sept/October.

Horsey Bird, have you spoken to the yard owner yet? At the moment there's no legal requirement for ragwort to be cleared off land that is used for grazing horses but if you have crops or cattle nearby, the local council/DEFRA could be able to make your yard owner do something about the problem as there is currently a bill that makes it illegal not to clear ragwort off land that is farmed, or off land that could contaminate nearby farmland. There is a bill going through Commons at the moment that will also make it illegal for ragwort to be left on grazing land also but will be a while before it becomes law.

Our yard owners have a contractor coming in to remove the ragwort from our "winter" (9 months of the year) field so as long as the council do their bit and clear it off the surrounding land we should be okay next year.

[Bebe]

Western, there's a pic of ragwort on this web page:

http://www.barrier-biotech.com/ragwort.php

[artemis]

Having your own land can be just as difficult if your neighbours leave ragwort growing & the prevailing wind is in your direction!:mad:

[Piaffe]

Check out this link - there are laws against 'dangerous' weeds being allowed to grown on privately owned land. You can contact DEFRA (used to be MAFF) who will take action if a friendly approach is ignored.




http://www.natural-animal-health.co.uk/ragwort.htm

[Horsey Bird]

Hi
Thanks to all who replied. SO here is an update on whats happened. I searched high up and low down for another suitable livery. Bear in mind that when I chose my current yard in January, it was the only one suitable out of the 15 or so that I called/visited!!

Anyway, after getting no where I was getting quite depressed. IN a fit of frustration/ extreme annoyance/ very upset-edness, I told the ex- yard manager that I was leaving and had already been visiting other yards. He sympathised but has no authority in the place but offered to kick up a stink to see what would happen.

Well he kicked up a stink, obviously told the yard owner what I'd said and hey presto most of the big plants were taken out. Which is a great help but they werent dug out, just the leaves were pulled from the surface so in 12 months it will be the same old story again. So I'm still going to leave because in 12 months I will have the same old battle on my hands.

So I found this very small private yard which seems ideal. The owner was horrified when i mentioend I was leaving because of ragwort - she cant believe the attitude.

Another person at my yard has decided to leave if I leave, so she came to see this new place with me and liked it. Actually I'm quite smitten with the new place because it backs right onto hills and you could hack for hours without seeing a road!! Since I rarely hack out because of the amount of roads and my horse is young and green, I am now ready to move and do some hacking.

I'm just waiting on the new yard to arrange some PL insurance and give me the nod. I have a nasty feeling the insurance will be so expensive she will decide its not worth the bother, but fingers crossed.

Incidentally Piaffe, I sent an email to North Somerset CC last week to complain about the lack of management of ragwort in public places... and got no response! So I'm going kick up a stink about that. I live in a relatively new housing estate and as I look out the window this minute, I can see ragwort plants in full bloom which are nearly as tall as me!!!

Thanks again all for your comments.

[hollysmum]

Originally posted by artemis
Having your own land can be just as difficult if your neighbours leave ragwort growing & the prevailing wind is in your direction!:mad:
i know what you mean

[Peace]

western - I don't think tansy ragwort grows in Wisconsin. (There's 1000's of species of ragwort, but only seven which are poisonous. Tansy ragwort is the one that causes the most trouble.) It's confined, in the U.S., to parts of the east and west coasts. Here's an article with good pictures of it and some more info:
http://www.nwcb.wa.gov/weed_info/tragwort.html

Scroll down on this website and there's a clickable U.S. map. Clicking on your state will show the distribution of ragwort by counties.
http://plants.usda.gov/cgi_bin/plant_profile.cgi?symbol=SENEC#distribution

HB - I'm glad you've been able to find some alternatives. Fingers crossed it all works out!:)

[Happychik]

Dont know if this will help or not but here is a link i was sent as part of a local forum explaining the governements issues on ragwort. They are hoping to make illegal for anyone to let ragwort grow. Farmer can be charged if they are not showing concern over the growth on thir land

Nic xxConsultation on draft code of practice to prevent and control the spread of
ragwort

Your comments are invited by 26 September 2003 on the attached draft
Regulatory Impact Assessment on the Ragwort Control Bill.

<A HREF="http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/ragwortcop/index.htm">http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/consult/ragwortcop/index.htm</A>


Action taken to halt ragwort poisoning of horses and other livestock


Rural Affairs Minister Alun Michael today urged landowners and occupiers to
control ragwort spread and prevent poisoning of countless horses and other
livestock each year.

Mr Michael, who is also Minister for the Horse, joined British Horse Society
Chairman Mrs Pat Campbell at Hickstead Royal International Horse Show to
launch a draft code of practice on controlling the spread of the poisonous weed
onto agricultural or grazing land.

Also, new enforcement procedures under the Weeds Act will mean that
complaints about the threat the weed poses to horses will be given priority along with
other livestock.

<A HREF="http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/latest/2003/ragwort.htm">http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/latest/2003/ragwort.htm</A>


NEW MOVES TO PREVENT RAGWORT POISONING

<A HREF="http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2003/030724b.htm">http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2003/030724b.htm</A>

Horses no longer 'second class animals' to be ignored in respect of threat of
ragwort poisoning.

[artemis]

Last year I Emailed my local councils about the ragwort problem - they all replied, but with varying degrees of civility!

One said that as the law was not enforced they were not bothering to comply & cited cost as the reason.

I can't see the point of having a law if no one will enforce it.

[AJB]

I have just pulled up a plant from the livery field, that all the other 9 owners had been ignoring!!!-however in another field at the yard where the owners horses are its all over the field, I mentioned it to her and got the reply that "horses dont eat yellow"-had to drive off as I could not trust myself to answer-like Horseybird I am looking around but sadly in our area its awful, the hacking is poor and yards near good hacking have a long waiting list and as my friend wants to come with me if I go with her 2 horses its a bit of a task, still I am determined I will find something...