Stop smacking on nose!

[Zoey]

Please don't all automatically take offence but I am a little concerned at the amount of advice people give on this page about stopping a bad habit by smacking a horse on the nose! This does not always solve the problem and you could end up with a very head-shy/insecure horse.
You should never hit a horse anywhere on the face - if you need to use the smacking/shock method then do it on the chest where it will give the shock without hurting it.
I know that nipping is a real problem and I don't profess to have all the answers. I work with a lot of rescued horses including an arab stallion who nipped a lot in the beginning - I used to lead him with a dandy brush in my hand so he got that instead of my hand, and I found that shouting `NO' when he went to nip me off the lead did the trick.

[Allie]

Zoey- while it may make some horse head shy, for others it doesn't faze them. I've got two horses- one of them freaks out if you even swing the reins in the general direction of her head. The other had some nasty habits when I bought her, including biting your behind when you picked up her hoofs, and biting you when you went to saddle her up. Now her saddle had been checked, it fits, and there was no excuse for the hoof-picking biting, so every time she tried to bite me I yelled at her and whapped her on the nose. It worked, and let me tell you, there is no way you could call this horse head shy. now, she doesn't bite me b/c she knows I don't put up with it, but every new rider gets a 'trial-by-fire' so to speak, when she finds out whether they will let her do it.

It really depends on the horse, and you have to find out with each indiviual. While I would not advise someone to smack their horse near the head for any little misbehavior, there are circumstances when it is the best thing. I think you can tell by a horse's personality whether or not they are likely to become head shy. The flightier, spooky horses are the ones you don't want to discipline near their head. For the rock calm, scared of nothing ones like mine, it doesn't faze them. For the ones in between, you just have to use some common sense.

Allie :)

[dreamer]

I don't like the idea of slaping on the nose either, until I had a really agressive food problem with my gelding. He would pin his ears and come at me, fully intent on nailing me one, when ever I brought his food. There are some times when you can't just smack the horse on the chest, especially when the horse has his neck stretched out and is comeing at you. I smacked him on the nose and it seemed to suprise him enough to back off, when the behavior continued, I had to cary a crop. I didn't hit him in the head if I could help it, but I sure wasn't going to risk getting hurt because he was being a brat about food. He's now okay, and because I didn't do it all the time, he's not head shy, he knew he's not aloud to bite, but he tried it anyways. He nailed my mom in the shoulder once (how far is that from the head???) and he tried it on my dad too, so it wasn't just me he did it with. Don't get me wrong, I don't like to see horses hit in the head if it's at all posible to avoid it, I wouldn't hit my horse for little things that you could easly hit them some place else for, or just yell, but there are some cases when you have to think about your safty and not trying not to hit your horse in the head. My gelding still nips, and I'll give him a ferm swat in the chest or shoulder, but the actural charging or comeing after me bit I don't stand for. :)

[bren]

Just something I noticed about mares and foals was when our foal bit her mom our mare always disciplined her by biting at her flank or rear or chest, never at her head.Perhaps for a reason? So I never hit a horse on the head. I have also heard (not sure if its true) that a horse can be killed by a blow to the head if you hit the right spot.

[Catherine]

Bren, it is true that you can kill a horse by hitting the wrong spot, but you're not likely to get him there by accident! It's in exactly the place you protect when your horse wears a poll guard for travelling - just about where the headpiece of the bridle goes across the poll.

As for hitting horses on the head, I agree that in principle, it is to be avoided, but sometimes it really is the only way to stop persistent and aggressive biters. My 2.5 year old is still entire, and occasionally gets into that "You and whose army?" frame of mind. I find that rather than smacking his nose for nipping at things - not so much at me nowadays - I pinch his muzzle. This involves much less abrupt movement and no real arm-raising, which is what I think they learn to flinch at rather than the actual discommfort of the smack, and is still uncomfortable enough to discourage and act as a deterrent. It has worked well with my boy, anyway!

In general, the telling-off is done to the area that has caused the problem, i.e. if he shoves me rudely, he gets a thump on the chest or shoulder. If he backs into me when I am doing leg-straps, he gets a bop on the bum. Everyting is accompanied with a loud NO.

I definitely agree with following the punishment principles that a mare uses on a foal. It's quick and sharp, with no lingering anger. My colt immediately seeks my approval when told off and comes for comfort. Even if I am hopping arund on one leg screaming blue murder with my toes rattling in the bottom of my welly, I have to be prepared to accept his 'apology' to ensure he continues to see me as a source of comfort.

[bren]

Yes, you reminded me of something that i should have added to my post! :) A mare never slaps :)and I don't recall her ever kicking Girly but bit instead which would be similar to your pinch. I have done that myself to Girly to get her out of being nippy. It worked, especially when she went to nip and found a pincher there for a target. i found it was a good cause and effect excercise for her. But that shouldn't make a horse headshy. I will have to do the same thing for Marty as he tends to be nippy as well. i definately dont want to make him headshy as when he is just standing there I cant reach the top of his head and he is sooo great at lowering his head right down so I can bridle him. Don't want to mess that up!LOL :)

[Laya]

I believe that slapping a horse in its nose is the owner's choose that is made basically on what type of horse they have. I agree with everyone else who said that it doesn't faze some horses at all. Justin (almost three now) tries to nip at someone's butt when they try to pick his feet. I told them to scold him with a "Quit" and to slap him on his nose when he's reaching around to bite them. It has worked to stop him from biting people when they're trying to handle his feet. It never helped until I started scolding him, because just shortening the chain to the wall wouldn't of helped, because the farrier has me hold him.

I suggest using "Quit" due to the fact that a horse can get "No" mixed up with "Whoa".

[Zoey]

I take on board what everyone is saying. As I said I am used to dealing with rescued horses of which the majority have been abused. Therefore they may well have been belted a lot harder than a tap on the nose (one of them was knocked out with a piece of pipe before we rescued her).
I don't know what I would do if I had a serious lunger who threatened to bite my head off - the obvious thing is to protect yourself.
However I personally would never hit a horse on the head if the choice was there. I think the mare and foal fact about the flank or chest `telling off' is something that made sense. Each to their own I suppose.
I am gonna put another message on about `backing up' for advice on the main page - if anyone can help with that one!

[pacountrygirl]

I had a vet tell me to do to my horse what she does to me (except if she ever bucks, I can't buck her off). She likes to rub after the bridle is removed, but then she wanted to bite - so I bite her back. It only took one time and she has never biten anyone since.

[Zoey]

hi pacountrygirl
I agree with what the vet said. My mare tried to bite me when putting her rug on. She once got me on the top of my arm - so i quickly nipped her on her chest (not too hard but it gave her a shock). She still swings her head about as if she is going to bite me but won't go as far as to touch me.
She's just expressing her distaste at having to have her rug on but knows not to push the boundaries. I think she must have been hit on the face before when the `rug incident' was happening as she would nip and then stick her head right in the air with her eyes wide. She was testing me to see if I would do that to her - ie. wanting to know how far she could push me and whether I would smack her on the face for it. It's only natural I suppose.
I think after trouble initially we have a mutually respectful relationship now.

[Marie-anne]

Perhaps we should all remember violence breeds violence

[Horse Girl]

My horse does not have a promble with nipping but I used to ride a gelding who had a very mad nipping promble and all you had to do with him was raise your hand to this nose to git your point across.