View Full Version : Stubborn, or what?
28th Jun 2003, 10:10 PM
Advice and any snippets urgently needed to help me to persuade nag that the lorry is NOT the road to nowhere.
She is getting more and more difficult to load as time goes by.
Food, longe lines, bridle, whip singing (not touching) I will not have her beaten in.
She is not frightened, just won't. She has learnt, unfortunately in her former life, to use her weight, and she says NO, no it is.
Have tried Parelli and that worked eventually, but it took hours. She has no respect or inclination to listen to poll pressure.
Then next day we are back to square one. Day two she will load as if she always loaded like a dream.
Its not funny when you are on the top of the downs with noone around, and nag says, nope!
Do you think I should ask a horse whisperer to have a go, there is one nearbye that I've heard good reprts of. Have to get there first tho'. Any thoughts gratefully recieved. L
29th Jun 2003, 05:20 AM
I guess I'm lucky coz Milly loads easily, but I think you might as well try the horse whisperer. He might be able to help. It sure sounds like you've tried every other way possible. Good luck - let us know what happens :)
29th Jun 2003, 07:42 PM
Maybe phone and ask if they have done much with 'loading horse'
I can't remeber the name of the guy?, but he has had good reports.
You could look here on this web site, theres tons of stuff:)
ps, will let you know about the Royal:) I should be there wearing a :o suit :o on Wens, maybe I can get on Tuesday instead, will see.
1st Jul 2003, 08:38 PM
Not much use if your on your own but just in case there's someone passing by. I remember watching loading four, off to a gallop somewhere and one was known to be bad at loading. So two went on first, then it was his turn. His mum on the lead rope and a friend came up behind with the bristles of a yard bush on his bum, no trouble, up the ramp and the partition came round, then the last went on. Off they went, Southport I think it was, off for a gallop on the beach. I was'nt going along with 'em. :(
2nd Jul 2003, 10:35 PM
Thanks for your thoughts. Suspect if I tried a bristle brush we'd end up having a real battle!
Didn't see you at the Royal Fred, but it is such an enormous show isn't it. Had a great day tho'. L
3rd Jul 2003, 08:11 AM
A friend of mine has recently had her difficult to load horse seen by Kelly Marks with great success - although you have to be prepared to practice as well. He was not dissimilar to yours - an unreliable loader, sometimes yes, sometimes no and when it was no things would get impossible as he is a big horse - 17.1 ID/TB. Anyway she is based in Berkshire - so not too far away.
Another one is Cathy Tindall (I am doing her Practical Equine Behaviour Course and great fun it is too) but she is Northamptonshire. I have heard and/or seen these people be successful with difficult loaders.
4th Jul 2003, 09:30 PM
LouiseS thank you. I will certainly be looking at these people. Didn't realise Kelly Marks was that near. L
11th Jul 2003, 06:20 PM
Star can be a b***er to load as well, and last year, we went nowhere because of it. a friend of mine showed me how she loads her Welsh Sec C. stallion, using a stallion chain looped around her headcollar, attaached up high, and through the side ring, and over her nose. Sounds barbaric, but Star is in total control of any pressure, and can choose to release the pressure at any time by moving forward. She still stops, but only for a shortwhile. this sounds awful, but we were desperate because she was becoming positively dangerous, flinging herself around etc when loading and then not standing but charging out agin backwards. She loaded well previously and had no bad experiences, then just decided that she didn't do loading anymore. We tried the food, the lunge line, strong men behind her backside, and the 'singing' whip.
Its a Richard Maxwell solution by the way. the trick is not to tug, or pull, just resist any backwards movement, and release, the moment forwards movement happens. - that's the reward bit along with plenty of praise. So life is a lot more fun for her, and I can load her on my own now. I use the stallion chain as a general lead rope. and a jangle is usually enough to remind her of her manners and to go forwards. I realine the some people will disagree with this totally, and I'm sorry if they are offended but she was walking all over us - quite literally!!
11th Jul 2003, 07:37 PM
I had good results with my stubborn loader, using join-up to get her focussed on and trusting me. Joined up a few times during the week, then asked her to join up, and asked her to load. And she jumped right on (previously we had tried for 3 hours and mare would not take any steps in the direction of the trailer.)
14th Jul 2003, 05:33 PM
I will look at a stallion chain.She resists any pressure and gets in a right strop, and there's no way I'm going to win any battles with her. She is open to negogiation most of the time.
My join up obviously needs more work, or perhaps I'm doing it wrong, which is more likely. L
15th Jul 2003, 01:55 AM
Please check out John Lyons. Apparently the learning goes in cycles "one day yes,next day no". I just read this in Lyon's book "Private Lessons." This could be very helpful to you. I read it for in my ongoing study of equine psychology, and his stuff makes alot of "common sense" that isn't so common.
15th Jul 2003, 10:44 PM
Littlehawk, thank you. Can you give me some more info' on John Lyons. I show my ignorance as he not a name I am familiar with.
Would appreciate it. L
16th Jul 2003, 07:05 PM
John Lyons strikes me as a good-ol' cowboy that's very wise in reading horses. (I'm not one to follow every trainer-guru that comes up...his manner of writing is just so straight-forward & honest, & "Private Lessons" was the first time I've encountered, in my reading, the realization of learning cycles...like,oh,yeah,that makes sense...) His website is www.johnlyons.com, & will list all his books (& of course seminars, etc...he's in business, but still seems like a real person...)
Another good Colorado guy is Mark Rashid. I recently read his newest book, "Life lessons From A Ranch Horse."...basically, what "Buck" taught him. www.markrashid.com (hope I'm spelling the last name right...
Maybe your local library can get the books for you; w/the internet & all, I would think it possible!
16th Jul 2003, 11:11 PM
Thank you, Littlehawk, I'll certainly have a look. l
17th Jul 2003, 02:03 PM
I don't think my reply is probably of much pratical help for you as if you have a van of your own then I guess you have to use it. I do not have a van and so I hire somebody if/when i need to move my big guy. He will load beautifully in a big, light, opened up lorry he will NOT load in a van or a small/low lorry. He is a big horse (17.2hh) and carries his head high when he is nervous. His head touches the roof of most little vans which are made for the averge sized horse. I am sure that with a lot of patience and training he could be got into smaller vans, I don't bother and just have a big lorry come (since I don't compete I don't often need to move him so it's no big deal). He is not being difficult he is nervous of it and so resists. Some guy at our place uses his lorry as a stable, his horses go up into the lorry to be groomed or washed, they are up and down all the time. If I knew him well I would have asked if I could use it as a training tool but only know him to say hello to so don't dare ask. Out of all that I guess that it helps to have a van or lorry that has as much light and space as possible.
17th Jul 2003, 11:03 PM
Alexa, thank you for your thoughts. My lorry is a side unload, so is very open and airy. The nag goes up ( when she does!) and turns sideways to face the front. No big deal and oodles of room. She's not as big as your boy- 15.2hh, carthorse, and the lorry is ample for her.
Quite intrigued by the idea of using the lorry as a stable. Have tried it to give her her tea in, but after so far No Way and hang tea. Trouble is she has medication in her tea so can't aford to miss some. But, lightbulb! I could give her medication seperately at a different time, and still start to use the lorry as groming, harnessing up etc. good thinking batman. Will give it a whirl. L
18th Jul 2003, 06:00 AM
Go for it and good luck. Let us know how you get on. Star is arguing again, because she's been on holiday for 2 weeks and looked after by somebody who, it seems, was bit nervous of her (sigh) - so we are back to square one, with a bad mannered horse. I'm taking lots of deep breaths and smiling a lot - through grtitted teeth.:D
18th Jul 2003, 11:35 PM
Janette, thank you. I expect Star will soon realise Mum is back and stop the pratting around. Keep the grin going! L
19th Jul 2003, 12:17 AM
If you like, I'm more than willing to recheck-out the book, Lyon's "Private Lessons" at my library, type out the appropriate trailer-loading section, and mail it to you. No worries! I have airmail stamps onhand, and would enjoy doing it. Let me know!
20th Jul 2003, 09:53 PM
litttlehawk, that is a very generous offer, may I say thank you and yes please.
In discussion with a couple of friends, we have come to the conclusion that the mare is voting with her feet. To be fair to her she has been around a bit to various yards, and now she is home she is saying I'm staying put and am not going anywhere. I like my home. I'm listening, and have cancelled all events for the rest of the season, so the pressure if completely off. L
21st Jul 2003, 11:40 PM
Laetitia~ tomorrow is my day off, & this coincides w/"library day"--if "Private Lessons" has been checked out, I'll request it (there's others I need to request as well...) & then proceed on that for you (again, my pleasure). If you like, at your conveniance, you can email an address where I can mail to you. My email address is in my profile, & I could say "don't worry about my respect for confidentiality", but you don't know me, so just send me an address that feels safe for you. I'm happy to do this! It feels good.
I love it that you are listening to your horse, & are letting her stay home. That sounds wonderful, especially if the trailer has come to signify "leaving home & not coming back." I had an idea, based on something else I read: maybe, while she's having her break, pull up the trailer to the gate, provide some food in it, and just leave it there periodically...maybe she'll think "well,there it was, now it's gone, I didn't have to go away...there WAS hay in it...oh, there it is again, but no one is making me go in...there's hay...hmmm..." By the 3rd or 4th day, she might go in to get a snack, discover she hasn't gotten absconded with, then try it again. Or, if you try it, it may freak her her out, which wouldn't be good...Just an idea...
2nd Aug 2003, 01:28 AM
Hi, Laetitia! I got the book back, & may not be of too much help, but will look thru, & I think the "snippets" from it I can post right here...so, onward...
2nd Aug 2003, 09:22 PM
Thank you littlehawk,I'll wait to see what you find out from the book. Very kind of you, do appreciate it. L
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