2-point, please help!!

[SwiftwindSpirit]

Well I had my last riding lesson on Sunday. It was a jumping lesson out at the park on a lovely tb gelding named Lion. Anyway, I haven't done alot of jumping, but I'm not new to it. I really need help with my 2-point position (any advice is welcome) because I can't seem to get it right! :(

In my last lesson I was doing a jumping course of 4 jumps. Two were about 2 foot high, one was a small cross rail, and another was a little less than 2 foot (which was an oxer). I went well over the 2 jumps and the cross-rail (which was placed before the oxer) but I totally stuffed up on the oxer! :o I ended up falling off the horse because I got knocked right out of the saddle. Now I know I fell off because I didn't get up and out of the saddle properly in 2-point. I feel like I'm getting out of the saddle enough, but I'm not.

I would appreciate ANY tips anyone might have, because even when I do remember to do 2-point I'm pretty .. bad at it! :rolleyes: I got back up on Lion and I went and did the jump again. I still didn't manage to do very well, so my instructor sent me back again and I did much better (but still not perfect). Please help! :(

My instructor kept laughing to himself because he was surprised that I didn't fall off going over the highest jumps, but on the lowest jump! (well the cross-rail was lower but it didn't really count). lol I sort of found it funny aswell.. but I know I fell off it because I didn't have enough time to think about anything after going over the cross-rail (well, I seemed like I didn't).

[galadriel]

Freedomstar's advice in this post is very well-written:
http://newrider.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19839

The thing about getting out of the saddle in 2-point is that either you *stay* out of the saddle, or you let the horse push you out of the saddle when he jumps. If you try to time it yourself, you're likely to get it wrong ;)

So either approach the jump in 2-point, in the position you'll be in when you go over the jump (I use this for teaching jumping, so the student can get used to the way a jump feels, before learning how to follow the movement), or let the horse tell you when to get out of the saddle ;)

For the latter, you'll want to be following the horse's movement with your body, and let the jump push you out of the saddle, and then return to the saddle as you come down. If you try to force it--if you try to decide when to leave the saddle, then you'll probably miss and rise early or late. In order to follow the horse's movement, you need to be able to let your upper body move at any time. This means that as you approach the jump, your weight is in your legs (like in posting) and you're ready to come up out of the saddle whenever the horse's body moves.

It can be hard to follow the horse; sometimes they don't jump when you expect them to, it takes you by surprise, and you get knocked further than you thought. If you are relaxed and ready for the horse's movement, then you should be able to follow it even when he takes one of the unexpected jumps--but if you're trying to time it yourself and to deliberately get out of the saddle, then when he jumps unexpectedly, you're going to be totally lost!

Like I said, I usually have my students approach in two-point while they're learning. That will keep your weight in your legs and your seat/upper body is free to move around as it needs to. As you progress, you can adopt a sort of sitting two point--you're in the saddle, but all your weight is in your legs, just as if you were in two point :)

You may have encountered this already, but with most horses, you can't just sit in two point and expect them to take you over. You need to be balancing with your seat, steering with your legs, encouraging the horse as you approach the jump. So you *can't* just sit up out of the saddle and wait for the horse to go over the jump. This is why you need to develop a method of sitting as you approach, but still be able to rise out of the saddle when the horse moves (not at a predetermined time, but when the horse begins to jump--wherever that may be).

[FreedomStar]

I think what is going wrong here with you is that you're jumping the oxer as you would a regular crossbar or vertical, but the thing is, since an oxer is usually higher and more spread out, you need to be suspended out of the saddle for a longer period of time, and it's much easier if you jump in 3 or 4 position. Also, you need to prepare for your jump much in advance, not at the base of the fence. Do a circle if you're not prepared, and since it is a low jump you can jump it from trot. Try approaching in half seat position, and grab mane over the jump. Keep your eyes up, don't look down!!! If you look down you're 'disturbing' your gravity and balance, and makes it much easier to make mistakes and fall off. Try to focus on something well beyond the jump, and let the horse jump for you. With practice, you'll be able to tell exactly where the horse will take off and you'll get up off the saddle in time to jump with them. It takes time and patience, so keep working on it!! I know for a fact that I used to be horrible at jumping. Now, I'm a lot better, but still not perfect, but then who is?

[SwiftwindSpirit]

Thanks SO much for your help Galadriel and FreedomStar. I'm not sure that I'll be jumping in my next lesson (which is 2 days away) but hopefully I'll be able to put your tactics into practice soon.

I think I do have a problem of not being able to get my timing right. The first time I have fallen off while jumping is when the horse did an "unexpected jump" as Galadriel called it.. but that horse was unpredictable all the time! :D Sometimes I try to just go with the flow of the horse, but then I completely forget to go into the two-point position (I think I try and think too much that I forget to do something). Hopefully I'll have better luck jumping next time, and won't fall off.

[FreedomStar]

Don't actually try to see the distance, because then you could actually rise too early or too late, anticipating the distance incorrectly. Ask your instructor if you can have some trot poles into a jump, and a canter pole into another, because it helps you get your distances better. If you're cantering jumps, stay up in a half seat position, so that if you're caught unawares (i.e. horse takes off too early) you'll only have to fold and it also helps get balance easier. This whole jumping business takes more than one lesson to master, and I guarantee you you won't learn everything there is to jumping!! You can always learn new things...

[Santorium]

This might well be a spectacularly stupid question, but as I've not learned to jump yet, I'll ask it anyway...

What exactly is 2-point? I gather that it's how one sits when jumping, but how does this differ from the usual seat?

Before you ask - yes I tried the equine dictionary first, but had no joy :(

[sallym]

I don't know what is meant by 2 point seat either. Maybe it's not a UK technical term?

[CityGirl]

2 point is what we call jumping position (only 2 points of contact - your legs - hence the name). I've seen it described as half-seat - could that be the UK term?
This is the description from Practical Horseman...

Maintaining soft contact, lift your seat slightly out of the saddle, with your pelvis tipped slightly forward, toward your knees. Center your hips and weight over your heels, and keep your shoulders square and open, slightly ahead of your hips, roughly in line with the fronts of your knees. (By "open," I mean that your shoulders are rolled back, with your stomach muscles pulled up toward your sternum, literally lifting that bone up as you push it from below. This shoulders-back/chest-up body configuration is necessary for flat-backed balance and upper-body control.) With your elbows softly bent, carry your hands above and about six inches in front of your horse's withers. Keep your eyes up, looking ahead at an imaginary fence.
From such a position, your center of gravity-located about an inch below your navel, and halfway between your back and belly-is directly over your horse's center of gravity, which is located just behind his withers and about halfway down his belly. I'ts a balanced position

[sallym]

Thanks CityGirl. Consider me enlightened! I think we just call it jumping position here.

Best wishes

Sally

[Santorium]

same here - thanks for the info!

[SwiftwindSpirit]

CityGirl, that's a great explination on what to actually do! :) Thanks for typing it up. Oh and sorry Sally for the confusion on the term "2-point" that's what term we use in Australia. Unfortunately I haven't had a jumping lesson yet (I did dressage last week, and will be missing my lesson this week).. thanks for all the help everyone!

[Santorium]

Confirmed: 2-point = half seat :)