when to use the whip...

[Silver1]

I've been working with Mar in the round pen and she's been doing well, so today we worked in a square arena, so that I could help her not get "Stuck" in corners. We've been doing really well since I switched from using a lead rope to a lungeing whip. (I think the instructions are more clear.)

How ever, when I tell her to stop, she faces her butt to me and if I ask her to go on, refuses to move. She knows very well I won't hit her with the whip no matter how mad I am, so she'll just stand there and let me snap the whip under her tail, tap her on the bum, nothing.

She DOES know what I'm asking, and I'm beginning to wonder if a smart slap would do her some good. She doesn't care if you tap her, tickle her or even crack it, she just won't move and I don't like her facing her butt to me.

Any suggestions?

[larri]

Hmm presenting her backside is the the equine equivalent of the two fingered salute and clearly shows a lack of respect and manners.

You said you had only just started using the square pen...are you absolutely sure she understands exactly what you are asking? If so and all else has failed I'm afraid to say I wouldn't hesitate to up the pressure on her and yes-even if it is just once, give her a good smack.

Let us know how you get on

Larri

[Silver1]

Hello, thanks for your reply.
I had absolutely the end of enough today with her piggyness today. It started early this morning when she would face her but in the corner and NOTHING worked. A friend came and tried (she's very experianced) and said heroshima could go off under her tail and she wouldn't flinch. She's TOO bomb proof. Well finally I took her into the round pen and ran her till she was turning around every time I said reverse.

Back to the big pen she made straight for the corner and faced her butt to me. So I started experimenting. (After calming down so I didn't act harshly in anger.) Well I tried snapping the whip at her and telling her to reverse. I know she knows what it means, she knows what it means, she's just trying to see what she can and can't do. "Well snapping the whip doesn't actually hurt, and I don't WANT to move. I know you wouldn't REALLY hit me."

Then I tried touching her with the lash, not even a muscle twitch. Then I gave her a poke. Then I tapped her, then I tapped a little harder. Absolutely NOTHING worked.

So then I gave her a sound crack on the shoulder with the thin end of the whip (I was afraid the lash would cut her and though some people suggested it, I was NOT going to hit her with the butt of the whip)

she was a little surprised, but turned around and very deliberately began walking in the correct direction. I followed her along and she walked perfectly till she got to the corner and stopped again. Just a touch of the whip and she walked on. I made her walk twice around with out a stop, then I called the day.

So apparently, it had very little to do with not knowing and very much to do with the "I don't wannas"

[KarinUS]

Do you mean shoulder as in the front part of the horse?

When I got my horse I took a lesson on how to lunge a horse and was taught my arms should form a V.
The lunge whip would be the extension of the arm to the backside of the horse.

http://www.karincuda.com/lunge.JPG

My horse tends to come in more than anything. The only time I extend the whip to the front of the horse, it's to turn his shoulder back out (I don't have to flip the whip. I just touch him as if the tip of the whip was a finger)

I know you are not lunging, but I am thinking that if I waived the whip toward DJ's front he might turn out and show me his butt as well?!

Your horse really might not be clear on what you want.

If you are not clear on how to lunge it might be beneficial and fun to have a lesson doing it. :) I know it helped me a lot. Some of what you learn there will apply to round pen work as well.

As far as getting mad goes remember:

You can't be in control of a situation if you can't be in control of yourself

[virtuallyhorses]

I'm torn between telling you to walk away and telling you to up the pressure and use a good smack or return to the lead rope where you can either throw one end toward her or twirl it at her to add pressure before ending up with physical contact.

My hesitation is solely because you say "She knows very well I won't hit her with the whip no matter how mad I am,..."

If you are mad you should walk away, applying pressure has nothing to do with getting mad. If you smack her with a whip or rope when you are mad your horse knows that you smacked because of your emotions, NOT because she did the wrong thing - big difference. Your body language will be different and your horse will be more likely to be fearful, sulky and confused than receiving the smack 'gracefully' for having done the wrong thing.

Its also important in a square pen to make sure that you aren't blocking your horse - you must position yourself to one side or another to ensure that the movement is clearly 'out' the otherside - if you stand behind her in the middle of the corner then she's really got no choice but to point her bum at you.

Try again... but make sure you don't 'get mad' :)

[Silver1]

Please don't jump on me, I know you are just trying to help but it sounds like an attack. :P

I already know if I'm mad I should walk away. My post mentioned that I calmed down first. Its true I was very, very mad at her when I started, and I figured the angrier I got, the more unclear my signals would be.

I have had two lessons on how to lunge her, and when I had the problem I at first figured that it might have something to do with my signals being mixed up, so I let Anna, my trainer, have a go at it. She couldn't get the horse to move either, not a step.

I usually don't have the whip in front, I have it behind, because the object is to go forward, and its very difficult to do so with a whip in your face.

I would agree with you it might be that I was blocking her exit, but a couple of times she broke from her circle to go to that corner and face out. (Gates or corners are her favorites, but sometimes she'll stop in the middle of the stretch as well.)

[KarinUS]

I am sorry if it sounded like an attack. I was just trying to be helpful :confused:

[casey]

Silver, I think you have actually been very fair, and if anything very patient.:)

[FreedomStar]

You could just MAKE her stand there. By making her stand there, you are saying that "It's ok with me that you want to stand there, but if you want to stand, then you're gonna have to stand there for as long as [U]I{/U] say so" and eventually she might come to terms with you and say that it's boring standing there, I'd rather do what you are asking me to.

[Silver1]

good point Freedom, I could try that!
Karin: I appreciate that, and I'm glad you're trying to help. There would be no purpose to this forum if you didn't, I'm not angry, I just felt a little tiny bit jumped on.