Classical .... oh really

[virtuallyhorses]

Have just been chatting to someone who's gone off to do a Classical dressage clinic. Fair enough, until the classical seat was described - as if you are standing with a straight leg so that you balance on your pubic bones ... ouch!!

Anyone heard of any 'schools' which advocate this sort of seat (perhaps because of a very particular type of saddle ???) or is this an advocate who's gone off on some extreme track?

[Ipsa]

Let's hope it's their understanding that is wrong and not what they will actually be taught.

[mikka]

Viv, can you describe this seat more specifically? I'm just not sure what you mean by balancing on the pubic bones. Does this mean balancing further forward on the fork rather than further back on the seatbones? Sorry, just can't visualise it.

As for the straight legs, well, isn't that a more natural leg position than the usual bent one?

Obviously, I'm missing something. Help!

[virtuallyhorses]

Well as I understand it, this lady has been to this teacher before so I don't think that she's misunderstanding the instruction (although anything is possible)

Mikka, it sounded exactly like the fork seat that we are taught to avoid - the problem with the straight leg is that it tilts the pelvis backward (which is why we avoid it). I'm not sure if they attempt to use the seatbones and the crotch or just the crotch but she only mentioned the pubic area.

[Kit Kat]

Oh dear! That sounds totally illogical not to mention painful! I'll ask my classical teacher this week, but I know he's never ever asked me to sit in such a way. Easily flexed legs, not poker straightened, and sitting exactly where God intended - square on the bum!

[virtuallyhorses]

Well yes, which is why I thought there may be some obscure area with a wierd saddle (like the Mongolians or something) - but I've seen the Portuguese and traditional French saddles and they all support the softly draped (ie bent) leg and use of the seatbones...

[Shiny McShine]

Don't know about this but does the use of the pubic region relate at all to Sylvia Loch's teachings. I seem to recall that she advocates a seat that is not only on the two seat bones but also on the pubic region... which she refers to as a three point seat (unrelated to the jumping position of the same name). This of course has nothing to do with a straight leg as far as I know but it could be something to consider.

[casey]

I believe sylvia loch's 3 point seat is seatbones and tail bone ie coccyx and not pubic bones.

[Silver1]

I was actually at first tought to use the pubic bone, and let me assure you, it IS painful. Then I switched instructors, and discovered you are supposed to sit comfortably. Must admit I've never been asked to do a straight leg.

[Tumbleweed]

Not been able to get on here for some time, but just had to reply to this.

I first came across this in the sixties, an instructor I had at that time went to a training session and when she came back this is how she wanted us to ride, with a straight leg.

Not only was this uncomfortable, but i had a lot of pain in my hips and she wouldn't change from this position so I left and went somewhere else.

[tasha]

Casey - Surely sitting on your coccyx is not only very painful but dangerous for your back and spine too?

[virtuallyhorses]

Unless you're a monkey, I don't think you can sit on your coccyx :D - what they mean by this is a line drawn down from the coccyx to the saddle .

[Heather]

Hi there all-

Sylvia would have a fit if she heard the coccyx being mentioned as the third point in her 3 point seat!!!!! She and the late Charles Harris( first Brit to complete the 3 yr course at the Spanish Riding School and long time teacher of your Classical Teacher, Kat although I know he doesnt advocate this!!)kept readers enthralled with their correspondence in Dressage mag a few years ago- we all turned straight to the letters page to see the next instalment!!

Sylvia advocates the two seatbones and the pubic arch, wheras Charles later changed his mind having advocated initially the two seatbones and the crotch. I have no argument with this- sorry to get a bit anatomical here folks- as the crotch is the area between the pubic arch and the seeatbones and as such is not a fixed bony point. The pubic arch and coccyx are though rendering any flexion of the lower back impossible, making the ride bounce.

What I advocate is tat the pelvis rotates between the two and three points, the movement becoming less and less with a horse in a high degree of collection, when the movement is travelling upwards and very little forwards.

There has been all sorts of argument over this, but I loved the comment by a Portuguese trainer when a friend of mine asked him ' On which bits SHOULD you sit?' He replied, 'Why Meester X............, you sit on de berm of course'!! Simple, eh?!!

Heather