Oh no..its worse than I thought..

[Harriet]

Hello everyone,
I dont know if any of you have read any of my previous messages re: my new Arab..
I have now had a lesson with a top class instructor who I completely trust. Actually my horse is on loan to me for a year with a view to extend, he is 71/2 yrs old and his owner has done nothing with him, but after my lesson it appears it is worse than I thought. The teacher rode him and according to her his knowledge is minus, he should be lunged for the next 4 weeks with some riding, he has no balance, he has never been ridden properly and has developed muscles in all the wrong places and that I really have my work cut out for me!( she is really nice though) the thing is I dont want to give up but everyone at the yard thinks I am mad and should give him back. He has this bad habit of throwing his head back at me and according to the yard people that can never be cured. My instructor says he throws his head because at the moment he is hollow she has given me some excercises to do and advised me when riding whenever possible to come off his back and she is coming out again in 4 weeks time.
Has anyone else had a similar situation, its just that everyone at the yard seem so pessimistic particularly regards the throwing of the head.
Sorry I know this is a long one..
Harriet

[Jay Kay]

Hi Harriet
Is there an option to buy him at any time ? or is it purely on a loan basis, when the owner could take him back when she felt like it ?
If you are going to put a lot of hard work into him( and money by the sounds of it) you should have the purchase option, otherwise all you are doing is schooling someone elses horse for free.
Jay Kay.

[Harriet]

Well the thing is she is actaully leaving the country for a year there may be an option to extend there may even be an option to buy, I am trying to look at it as a personal challenge, but after the doom and gloom comments from the yard folk I wondered if maybe he will never get any better.
This throwing of the head thing is the main worry at the mo. I have already had a lovely grazed chin from him, it doesnt seem to matter whether I have proper or relaxed contact...
I know a martingale may help but if I do ever get to the stage of competing in ridden classes then martingales are not allowed.
So waht do you think?
Harriet

[Rachel R]

Harriet - Yes it is curable. If you like this horse then carry on working with your instructor on the problems. In the short term a correctly fitted running martingale may help stop you getting bashed in the face, however - it would be a good idea to get this horses teeth and mouth, and possibly back and saddle checked out to make sure that these are not causing the horse discomfort. My arab used to throw his head about when excited (still does occasionally) or as a method of evading the bit. Once you have ruled out a physical problem work on riding keeing your hands still and the reins a consistent length - do not shorten them when he throws his head or try to slow him, wotk on pusing him forwards encouraging him to seek the bit and stretch forwards and down. Your hands have to be still and consistent if he is to learn to trust them. Focus on your own position and riding too and you will find that he improves as a result. You must have balance and self carriage for the horse to achieve it.

Good luck with it, stick with the lessons

Rachel

[Harriet]

Thanks for the good advice - I have just had his teeth done in case it was that. It could be his back or saddle I have tried 2 saddles on him after a while both slip to the right. He is overweight which doesnt help but when I spoke to the saddler he said he may have one shoulder more developed than the other. He is particularly bad on the right rein so this makes me think he is under developed on his right side? hence the over developed left side is causing the saddle to shift? I am going to work on lunging him mostly on the right rein to see if I can balance him up a bit and I think maybe just to be on the safe side I should get the chiropracter out.
As far as my balance goes the instructor has advised me to school with my stirrups really short so I am balancing in my knees and if need be to then to hold on to the saddle. What with him speeding about, being unbalanced, the saddle shifting you can imagine the scene! Not exactly the prettiest picture you'll ever see...
Anyway can you let me know if you think my lunging idea sounds right.
Harriet

[Jay Kay]

Hi Harriet
It sounds like you really want to persevere, so just take no notice of the people in the yard, go along with whatever your intructor tells you and ignore the rest, and I mean ignore, they will undermine your confidence in yourself and it will transfer to your horse, live in your own little world if you like, not easy I know in a busy yard, but this is your challenge and only your business, so tell them to bleep off if this is what you really want to do.
If he were mine I would go back to the beginning and start from scratch, lungeing and long lining, he needs to be accepting the bit before you can truly begin to educate him,and understand voice commands, what bit are you using at the mo ? If its a snaffle, see if you can borrow a french link to try it has a softer action, or maybe a happy mouth bit(ask your instructor)Arabs have small mouths getting the right bit will make him happier they also naturally carry their head higher so it will be easier for him to throw his head back, but I can't help feeling that his early eduaction was a bit of a bosh up and he really does need to be started again.I would avoid a martingale at the moment as he is so uneducated, that really the root of the problem is the fact that he is not happy with his bit and is not accepting it, he could be hollowing his back due to discomfort, I would seriously consider getting his back looked at as it sounds like there is a problem there especially with one shoulder being underdeveloped and the fact that he is one sided,the hollowing of the back and throwing up of the head is a classical sympton of back pain. again ask your instructor before you make any decisions.
Keep in touch
Jay Kay

[Wally]

Take no notice of anyone else. If you like the horse and are prepared for a long, hard steep learning curve then go for it. Most of what you describe is perfectly improvable if not curable.

We are in the process of buying a horse that has been written off by everyone. Funny that!, they did the same with one of our others, who now is probably one of the nicest Icelandics I know. It was hard work, blood, sweat and tears, but he came good in the end.

Good luck.

[Mossy]

I know this probably sounds very silly but have you checked the fit of his browband. They are often too tight and how wold you like to have a vice across your forehead. If you really like this horse and can see some potential, ie the temperament is good but there are quirks, stick with it.

The right instructor is imperative, because some idiot was responsible for him getting those quirks in the first place. Sorry but I have a very low tolerance for instructors who set themselves up as experts to people they perceive as "novice owners" and then cause more problems than they solve because they don't listen! This post is rathe more blunt than I am usually but I get very cross about and with people who ruin good horses because they don't stop and think. If you want a book to look at to keep you sane try The Horse Owner's Survival Guide.
Good luck and keep us posted. The support I have had, mental and practical,with Connie has kept me going.

[Harriet]

I am so pleased with the responses I have had, I will certainly keep you posted. I do really want to persevere in fact we schooled last night and because I know now that he has problems it has actually made it easier for me we had a lot of cantering around (I stood up to save his back)because to him trot round a corner on the right rein is nigh on impossible however - I just went with him - I shortened my stirrups almost to Jockey length held on to the saddle and let him trot as fast as he liked eventually we found our combined balance and we had a lovely circuit of quite collected trot (we called it a nigth at that point)- it was amazing I could have cried I think he lacks confidence and I have a feeling we may have come to an agreement(I am loath to speak too soon but fingers crossed) . (OOH my poor knees & back).
I am lunging tonight so I'll let you know. The instructor I have has actually trained some of the riders for the British Olympic team in the past and has a real nice way about her. i.e all for the love of the horse..
I think I'll stop now because I'm gushing.
One more thing, before I go can you believe that one person at the yard actually said "he may even have to be put down!!"
Bye for now
Thanks again
Harriet (very stiff, very sore, very happy)

[Sarah]

hello!

In your last post you said that you can't get your horse to trot round a corner to the right. That combined with his head throwing and saddle slipping really makes me think you should get a physio out to see him ASAP. To get a physio out they need to be refereed by your vet so it may be worth calling the vet to ask who they can recommend and refer you to.

bye!

[Harriet]

Hi Sarah,
Re: saddle slipping, he is quite fat so I changed the girth to wide elastic one with a rubber grip on the inside and that seemed to help.
The reason I said he couldnt trot round on the right is he rushes everywhere my trouble (amongst other things) has been collecting him - because he is rushing so much he is unbalanced sometimes he will trot round the corner but he often breaks into canter as thats easier for him he is the same but not so bad on the left rein. Last night though we were racing around the corners in trot then eventually he came back to me and we actually got a nice circle on the right rein. Do you still think its his back or do you think it could be a case of just rushing and being unbalanced?
Do I have to get a referral from a vet to get the Chiroprator out?
Harriet

[Sarah]

hello!

You have to think about what is making him rush round the corners. Is it just because he has always done so? Is is because he is very stiff on one side so he tries to get the painful corner done as quickly as possible. Rushing can be a classic sign of a horse in pain, but it can also be becaus eht ehorse has always been allowed to rush that he thinks that is the way to go. Head tossing is similar - it is either due to pain, or is just an evasion.

Your saddler suggested that he may well have differnet amounts of muscle on either side of his back to make his saddle slip, that makes me think he has or has had an injury to his either his back, shoulder, front leg or neck (or any combination of the above!) which is making him not want to use certain muslces and hence he has muscle wastage on one side and a large build up on the other. This could well mean that going round bends is difficult for him. That is just my opinion though, i am not an expert.

I have no idea whether you need to get a referral from the vet for a chiropractor, I have never used one. When I have had a referral from teh vet, I have just spoken to the vet on the phone about the problem and they have been happy to agree that the problem is a soft tissue one and have referred me to the physio.

If I were you, i would get someone to look at your horse, if for no other reason than it will show the others at your yard that he is worth persevering with!

Good luck!

bye!

[Mossy]

Some vets are back specialists. If you inform your own vet first, they do not not usually mind you going direct. Just keep everybody informed. Your local riding club will know who your local good back person is. Ask at the saddlers if you do not have a contact slready.

[LC]

I've written about my "bad boy" several times. He was written off by everyone but his owner who didn't ride. He was brought to me because he was pretty hopeless. He also had some of the worst vices I've ever been exposed to, but those were fairly easy to correct. It took me a year to get him over the bad training and care he had in the past, which I believe contributed to some of his vices also. I had to take him back to ground zero with training and because "undoing" this process took a long time. I did lots of line work to rebuild muscles in his back and to help with balance. I also used a lot of Tellington exercises to get him more supple. I understand what your instructor is saying about the hollow back causing the head throwing and that will go away when you correct the back problem. Some of my very best, most special horses have been written off by others, so don't pay them any attention. Horses at their best are not easy and some people can't fathom the rewards of working with a difficult one. If you want to make a difference in his life and you have the patience to do so, go for it. Sounds like you've got him a year anyway. Somebody has to take these mistreated creatures under their wings. If you have the talent to do it then join the club. You have a big help with all the wonderful people here to offer advice, comfort, support and encouragement. Others will not reap the rewards you have waiting for you. They won't have the bruises, emotional ups and downs, or endless hours of thinking of unconventional solutions and methods that you will have either! But in the end you will be richer for it (I'm definately not talking financial).