Possible Pregnant Filly - HELP!!!!

[shandy84]

Hi,
Can I have people's opinions please???

I have an Arab x Hannovarian 2 year old filly and over the summer she was fielded with a "gelding" a Welsh D X Arab he mounted her a couple of times to my knowledge and we have now got suspicions he was a rigg. Has anyone had experience of a mare and rigg scenario??

My worry now is that my filly has not had a season for 4mths when she was fairly regular, she has put on 200kg of weight in a month which is impressive for her as she's not a good doer and she is constantly tired unless you put her on the lunge when she goes hell for leather. I am worried that she may be in foal, but the vets said they wont check her for another month as the "gelding" only left her a month ago so the pregnancy could be either new or about 3 months in. Has anyone got any tips on spotting the early signs of pregnancy and do you think what i've seen in my mare could be her being pregnant?

The vets say they can abort what is everyones view on that I am a student so not rich and I haven't got long term facilities so once weaned it would have to be sold, what would be worse for my two year old to have it? or not?

Cheers any advice a godsend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mehitabel]

if she were mine and i were in your situation, i think i'd abort if she turns out to be in foal. can you afford all the extra feed and care she'll need, the vets fees and risk of a foaling, then to keep a mare and foal for at least 6 months before you can wean?

you'll need to feed her up as she is so young - if she doesn't get enough nutrition she will skimp her own needs to feed the foal, and she may end up with permanent growth or bone problems. so if she's a poor doer anyway then this cost will be upped. a mature mare has much less risk of this as she has finished growing, but your girl is still growing herself and needs a lot of nutrients for herself.

then birth is also always risky, and again, more so in a young mare. and it's expensive too - vet callout in the middle of the night, and more if there's anything wrong.

have you got experience of bringing up a baby? this isn't easy and is also expensive and time-consuming.

so, if it were me making the decision, i'd abort it. it won't have any effect on your mare's future fertility if you want a planned babay in the future.

[chev]

My mare was covered by a rig and confirmed in foal. She was then later confirmed not in foal... we're not sure if the first test was inaccurate or she later lost it anyway. We learnt too late to abort that she'd been covered; I'd get your vet to do a manual DP now. I don't understand why they won't check her - they can tell from very early on if she's in foal and in the first few days can pinch a developing embryo out. After that she'd have to be given a hormone injection, and beyond a certain point that's not advisable either... it doesn't make sense to leave it.

When it happened with us we were told if the foal was a colt there would be a high risk of him being cryptorchid (one or both bits retained; another rig). That in itself was enough to put me off.

Get your vet back out sharpish, and if it's not too late, I'd abort.

[casey]

I honestly doubt the signs your seeing are pregnancy related. Mares don't 'show' until they are 8 months upwards and only mares that have been pregnant before will show the signs earlier.

If my mare put on 200kg in a month, which is approx 400 pounds I would seriously call the vet........and not because I was worried about pregnancy.

Lastly.....vets have ethical problems about aborting unborn foals, unless it compromises the wellbeing of the mare.

climbing on top of mares is a learned behaviour... perhaps your gelding was allowed to cover mares before he was cut.

[Mehitabel]

i'd say that a 2 year old possibly in foal to a rig with an owner with no experience of breeding is definitely a risk to the mare's well being. not meaning any offence to you, shandy, but you may not be aware of things to watch out for and might miss early signs that things were amiss that a more experienced stud person would spot.

also, that's not always true about maiden mares not showing until late - we had 2 mares last year in foal who were maidens - one showed within 2 months and the other you'd barely have known she was in foal until the last couple of months.

[chev]

Have to agree with Es that a two year old in foal is not a good thing really and I imagine most vets would be of the opinion that a foal in these circumstances represents a risk to both mare and foal should pregnancy continue.

Would also like to add that most vets I've spoken to would rather abort an unwanted foal than add to the overbreeding problem we already have here. Remember these vets also have to deal with unwanted foals as rescue cases later in life.

I've come across several mares that looked pregnant from very early on and plenty that don't - there is no way of saying yes or no unless a proper diagnosis is carried out.

[shandy84]

Hiya, That is all really what I thought, I think I just wanted to know that I was thinking of doing the right thing by her. I have had her since a yearling and I have her companion who is a New Forest yearling so I do have a good idea of the work involved if she was to keep it, but at the end of the day my fiance and I have to think of her first and foremost and if there is any risk her to her life or future it is not one we are willing to take. I have booked an appointment at the vets for a couple of weeks as the vet would do it no sooner, so we shall wait and see and hope it's just an odd growth spurt she is having thanks guys I'll let you know the outcome.

[shandy84]

Hi, this is a reply for Casey. My mare is two years old no more than a baby herself that makes any pregnancy a possible problem as to her growth etc...as someone else also said although I have experience with youngsters I have never been involved in a mare's pregnancy or birthing and this could present its own problems. As to vets having ethical views on the matter-maybe they do but if I cannot feed the foal and mother as I am only a student earning £60 a week or less and the majority of that going on the rent I am positive he would see the best situation for the mare would be to abort. I am concerned about the weight gain but as we have strong suspicions that the other horse was a rig and as he was only three he had never covered any mares - at least not with anyone's knowledge - then that is the first avenue to explore. If she isn't pregnant the vet will look into the symptoms I have explained and as she would be staying there as she is having some sarcoids removed he would have ample oppertunity to look into it.

One last question when you were say 13 I bet you would be allowed an abortion if you wanted one because you couldn't support the child and weren't grown enough to cope with the pregnancy - just because she can't speak doesn't make the situation very different - just a thought.....

Thanks for your views and I don't mean to dash them completely as they are your views but they are ones I have already accounted for and pregnancy so far is the likeliest conclusion...

[casey]

Hi shandy84, My family have made a living from breeding horses, so my opinion comes from ACTUAL experience. We have had over 60 foals born, and sell competition horses all over the country. My own competition horses are home bred.

In my last post did I, or did I not say that vets have ethical problems about aborting foals. Yes I did. I did NOT however say I had ethical reasons for doing the same. I too believe 2 is too young to have a baby, however it does happen.

If I were 13 and pregnant (though what me being pregnant has anything to do with this) I would have freedom of choice. But it would be my choice and not one made by the doctor.

[DebO]

Hi, If it were me I would be worried because she is only 2 and just a baby herself. Please call your vet and discuss the matter with him and get his opinion, get him to check to see if she is in foal.

You also need to find out if the owner if the rig is liable for costs.

[Katie_85]

Uh Casey, you may have experience breeding horses but so do other people. I have known more than a few mares to "show" at 2 months, and not all seasoned mares either. That being said, I have just one other issue with your post. You need to watch your tone of voice, Shandy was just asking for opinions, not your snotty little "did I or did I not" response. Watch it, NR is a friendly place, we don't take well to people compromising that.

[casey]

Well Katie85 does the friendly tone extend to the moderators? Because if that wasn't a "snotty" reply as you so elequently put it..... I don't know what is.

Newrider is full of knowledgeable people, and I am always interested to learn of other peoples views. I have never seen a mare show at 2 months and that is my opinion.

[LokiSofi]

Hi my mare had a foal at two years old (before we bought her) and it stunted her growth she should of made a stocky 13.2hh but instead has made a maximum height of 12.3hh and is not very stocky at all.
(both her parents were 13.2hh and very stocky and she is a welsh section C so should of really been stockier than she is etc)
Anyway I think that if your filly is in foal it may stunt her growth as it did my mare, But perhaps you should look up or talk to your vet about abortion in horses as I know that in humans women after an abortion are sometimes unable to have a baby later on, and I'm not sure if it's the same for horses, also I again am not sure but would an abortion be dangerous for your filly?
If she is not ready to have the foal etc (too small or not ready emotionally) she will lose the foal naturally anyway.
I'm sorry I'm not too sure what I'd do I think I'd find out the risks of an abortion for your filly, and if they are low consider it but otherwise if she is in foal let her have the foal and sell it at weaning. (this would be a cheaper option, as seeing as you are a student, as I don't suppose abortions are cheap)
Sorry this is probably no help.
Best of luck and keep us posted.