Working on Trust

[Jodie & Ru]

Hi everyone,

Hoping you guy's can give me some ideas or point me in the direction of a helpful thread.

Bit of background first. My loan horse Rupert is a 5 yr old gelding, arab x connemara, quite a nervous boy too.

Rupert has been off work for 2 months now, so his contact with humans has been less than of what it usually is. I started riding him again at the weekend, just doing some light schooling - all flat work. When i first started loaning him he was nervous and used to be pretty disobedient (trying to bite and generally not that friendly), but we got over this and he got heeps better and more trusting. Hardly ever trying to bite in the end or generally just take advantage of me.

But as you can guess since his time off, he has taken quite a few steps back. Would really like to do some ground work, so that we can build our relationship up and so he knows who's boss in this relationship.

Please can someone think of some ideas to help, or maybe books/pass threads they themself have found useful.

Thanks

[Jodie & Ru]

Anyone have any advice.....please!!!

J x

[Casey76]

I'm reading Kelly Marks "Perfect Manners" at the moment, and even though I don't have my own horse I'm finding the information in the book very interesting. It's all very down to earth writing, nothing 'high handed' or anything. There are case studies interspersed throughout the text and exercises to emphasise that these exercises can be done (and work) with 'real' horses. There are also excellent photos in step-by-step exercises.

Another good thing is that it states that you don't really need a training halter, you can do (well depending on the horse) the exercises in a normal halter. There is also advice on what to do if you don't have access to a round pen (like how to simulate one by cornering off a manege or part of a paddock.

I only wish I had my own (or loan) horse to practice with!

[Horsey Bird]

Hi
My mare is also young, only 5. She is very dominant in the herd and when I first started working with her she tried the dominance thing with me too. The thing you have working in your favour is he knows you can be trusted, so build on that.

My horse used to try and walk all over me, barge thru me, nip me etc. What I did was everytime I went to see her in the field, when I reached her I would put my hand behind her head and gently push her away. In my own time I'd then go back to her and pet her, talk to her etc..

In the horses mind he who moves the feet has the power. watch the dominant horses in any herd; all they do is give an evil glare and the others immediately move out of the way.

You're working with the same principal, ie making him move his feet and it really makes him think of you in a different way.

It took my horse about a week to stop even trying to nip me. It used to be automatic with her....I'd arrive and immediately her head would duck down and try to nip my leg. If that didnt work her ears would flatten back and she'd have this evil glare on her face. Thats all stopped now.

Also when I moved her recently, once she'd found her feet she tried it on me just once, but as soon as I pushed her away from me she stopped even trying to nip.

As far as barging goes, it depends where it happens. With me it used to happen when we were in the arena doing some ground work. She think "I'm not doing that" and walk into to. The cure is simple...sit on something immovable, like a fence or a big barrel. They cant physically walk thru an object like that and they learn they cant walk thru you either.

Books I've found useful were the Mark Rashid books...I think they are just fantastic. Each one is a little gem of information.

Good luck.
M.

[cvb]

Jodie

Even without any books, there are some simple things you can start with. Just asking for the horse to back or move over from the ground can be extremely useful eg for stable manners, getting through gates etc and also for respect, trust, confidence.

Its really about teaching him to yield to pressure - start with a light pressure and increase til he reacts - but reward straight away by releasing the pressure and they soon learn to move from less and less pressure.

Then its just about working out where to apply the pressure to get the result you want !

You can start by using the parelli friendly game - basically rubbing your horse all over. That way you work out where he is comfy and where he gets nervous. Make it nice for him to let you into the 'scary' areas - don't insist you must touch him but gradually work into them.

Then try using some pressure eg put a hand on his nose. add a little pressure. As soon as he even 'thinks' to take a step back, release the pressure. Gradually build up so you're using a light pressure to get a back up. (You can use voice cues at the same time if you like - although true parelli doesn't).

What happens if you put the pressure in the centre of his chest instead of his nose ? On the side of his neck to ask his front end to turn around ? On his flank to ask his quarters to turn ?

All of this is good preparation for doing the same stuff from the saddle.

eg once you have got him so you can ask shoulder to go across, and quarters to go across, can you ask both at the same time so he goes sideways ? (helps if he's facing a fence or wall when you start this one). Then if you add some forward movement you've got leg yield ! (from the ground).

Hours of fun :D

Up the stakes - put some poles on the ground

- 2 parallel - ask him to back between them. Now make a U shape and he has to back through that !
- make a square, and he has to turn around inside it
- ask him to stop with front feet one side of pole and back feet the other, then go sideways along the pole

enough to be going on with ?

[Jodie & Ru]

Horseybird - thanks for that, it's comforting to know there are others out there who been through the same kind of problems. I will try the suggestions you have made and hopefully in time i should have a less bargyless domineering horse. I was practising last night with him something i'd read on a post yesterday, where you stand along side him and when he tries to nip you raise a schooling whip to his hind legs or quarters, giving a gentle tap and then praising him straight after when he reacts, this really worked well. After 3 times of doing this, he completely got the message and didn't even give it another try. One thing i do need to work on is when i'm cleaning out his hoofs - he try's to bite my bottom and having my back to him does make me wary, any ideas there? Thxs

CVB - Some great exercises there and loads for us to be getting on with. Do you think i should practise these exercises in a bridle or just a head collar?

Lots of reading to be getting on with too. We are going to be busy this winter. I am so determined not to let him treat me like this and get away with this behaviour, it can be so disheartening.

Thanks

[Tootsie4U]

Tarp training! Works wonders!!!!! Gets the horse to focus on you and look to you when it needs help making a decision!

[cvb]

Jodie

personally I prefer a halter - cos then there's no way I'm going to mess with their mouth.

But - if for example you were going to do this as a pre-riding thing - 5 mins before you hop on board. Then I'd either bung a head collar over the bridle, or put one of the showing type couples on the bit (you can get webbing ones which are cheaper than the proper showing ones) and attach a rope to that.

We had a pony off with laminitis - when he came back into work he started with ground work cos his back muscles were non-existent. He just did frequent short sessions of maybe 5-15 mins, building each time. Its a great way to get them back into work !

I've since started him loose jumping - for his back muscles. But you really need to respect and confidence from the ground before you do this. He is a bit short on the old brain cells so we have had to talk it one very small step at a time - but he's getting the idea now !

This was mainly off headcollar or rope halter. But I often do 5 mins with my mare before I get on and then do what I've proposed above.

[Harry Hobbes]

Jcowden,

Excellent self-study training resources for ground work can be found at:

1. www.johnlyons.com (http://www.johnlyons.com) - A variety of books and VCR tapes that fully explore ground work and problem solving. His "Communicating With Cues" series of books are comprehensive and provide the basis of a solid understanding of equine behavior and training.

2. www.parelli.com (http://www.parelli.com) - Parelli has "packaged" programs which start with the basics on the ground. His "Level I - Partnership" is an outstanding starting package. (And not too pricey for the content.)

I use a mixture of methods and techniques from these (and other) professional trainers with every horse that I work with, and I've found that their principles, concepts, methods and techniques are very constructive and productive with building the human/equine relationship (as well as realizing other benefits).