Progress & A ? - Bonfire Cantering???????

[Tootsie4U]

Hmmm... friends and trainers who have been helping me with Bonfire say he is almost ready to try canter - maybe in two weeks or so. Oh yeah?

So my question, how do you know when is a good time to try canter on a baby for the first time? JayO, I'd particluarly like to know when you knew it was time for Mysy.

To fill you in:

Bon is doing super with his balance. Im minding my balance to help him and we're coming on immensely.

He will trot and trot and trot until I ask him to walk. The only time we falter at that is if I sit to change my diagonal and he's like "whoa, what was that" and he'll crash to a halt :d hee hee - cute

He is voluntarily giving contact. When I take his offer, he rounds up so nice.

His halts are much more solid now. Almost enough that they are dependable!! :eek:

A continuing and reoccuring problem though for us is he still does not like to turn left! Strong aids are in order when he begins to bulk about it, but he isnt rearing, bucking, or stomping anymore. Therefore, that makes me say his steering isnt 100% yet.

Oh yes, and this weekend we sorted out weight aids. No reins required anymore :D:D:D really happy about that!

So if I can't steer 100% of the time, why would someone suggest to go faster!?!

Just wondering. I suspect that the continental differences will be a major factor here. I guess what to keep in mind is, even though it may not be correct, is that horses are started and pushed alot earlier and faster over here in the US than over there across the pond. As a general rule. Bonfire is coming 5.

[Jay.o]

Hello. Nice to hear Bon is coming on so well ! Such an improvement.

Anyway, I am just starting to canter Mysy now. We have a decent canter on the lunge which is balanced and controllable for a few turns. Then its hypo mood and we have to slow down again :rolleyes: . We have a good rising trot with balance like Bon and you. We can manage a lovely sitting trot now for about 1 circle of the school. We have tried cantering for about two weeks now and she simply doesnt understand what i am asking. Today was the first time I got canter out of her when ridden.

SHe was in a bit of a hyped mood because it was very windy but it helped. She did about 3 strides then back to a trot.

I think you are ready when both you and the horse has a balanced, controllable walk and trot when ridden and all three on the lunge. Hes offering a frame (like mysy occasionally does) which is showing that he is willing to work.

Mysy likes to get back to the yard if someone is there or a horse is there. Its her comfort thing i think. If Bon has a favourite corner or area, try canter towards there and that will get you your canter. Then move it onto other places and so on until you can get canter where ever you ask.

I am not this far yet, we are still trying to get canter when riding so rougly the same place as you :D:D
Good luck and hope I was of some hlelp to you

[Mehitabel]

i generally start reasonably early on, so it isn't a big new thing after they've got into a routine. at the beginning, everything is new and one more new thing isn't anything to goet overly excited about.
if you aren't going to get run into the fence and you are confident you can stop, then i am sure you'll be fine. you can't wait for him to be 100% foot perfect before you try it - if i had, i wouldn't be cantering petal yet! ;)
if you feel that you'll be reasonably safe, then go for it.

on the other hand, i know i do things quite differently to you anyway - i like to get them out and about on trail rides as soon as they are happy with my weight on top, even still on the lead rein. so i normally start cantering out, before they are doing it on the lunge - it's much harder for them to canter a 20m circle than it is to do it in a straight line, so i like to canter first out, and leave it for the arena until they know what 'canter' voice aid means and are reasonably good at transitions.

[galadriel]

I've been pondering this since you asked it yesterday.

Among other things, as Es says, it's much harder for a horse to canter in a circle than straight. If you're going to be starting cantering him in an arena, I'd want to be pretty sure that he is very comfortable circling in both directions at a trot. I'd also want to be sure that he had a good amount of riderless canter lunging in the area where you will first ride him at a canter, and that he is *very* comfortable riderless. It's hard enough for a horse to develop the balance to canter in a circle; it's even more difficult when he isn't sure of his own balance, and also has to deal with a shifting weight on his back.

Something you could try is to canter a few strides down the long side of an arena. If you think he would be cooperative, if you think he would NOT feel punished by being pulled back to a trot after just a few strides, it might work well.

With a horse just learning that you really *do* want the canter, though, I myself would want room for...hmm...probably 7-10 strides on the straight, to give horse an opportunity to know that he really was supposed to canter, and reward horse for being in canter. If it seems like you ask for canter and then immediately ask for trot, it will feel like a correction, and horse will get fidgety about being asked for canter. Is there a larger space you can ride in?

Are you doing anything about left, besides making him turn while riding? Even if he seems fine while turning on the ground, things like stretching on the ground can help with one-sidedness under saddle.

[Tootsie4U]

Good points, exactly what I was looking for.

The outdoor arena is quite large but the footing isnt too great (very deep) and the weather here has been very wet. We aren't going to try it until maybe another week or so, so the conditions might be better for the outdoor by that time.

As an extension of what Galadriel said, I suspect Bon will offer only a few strides of canter. So, should I allow him to canter as much as he is comfortable with, or should I make sure I ask for the down transition? For the first time, should I be symapthetic and let the canter be on his terms, or for training sake, should I make sure I control the strides?

And Es, Im begining to grow some nerve - I've thought about hacking :eek:

Thanks all, Jay O, I thought for sure you were farther along than that - but either way, you're such a good trainer. Mysy is lucky to have you. :)

[larri]

I stared cantering ridden with Safi when she was able to keep a balanced canter on the lunge and hold herself nicely without running into it and being flat.

I had also been cantering her when hacking, but short bursts and I was riding it X country style with my weight off her back.

We had just , and I mean just - maybe twice I think cantered in our "school" (a marked area in the field) before she went to Turville and they weren't impressive! A bit motorbikey . After three weeks at Turville - with a combination of lunge, in hand and ridden work in the school she now has developed the strength and suppleness to canter straight and 20m circles. Even last week she was still objecting a little ( odd cow kicks if she was in too deep in the corner) but when I watched her being schooled on Sunday she had developed a nice free swinging, uphill pace. Once that's established she'll be gradually asked for more lift and collection.

BTW she's four and a half now and I backed her August 2002 and turned her away after three months baby schooling then brought her on very slowly this spring and summer.

Slow , steady and careful progress...at the horses pace - the golden rules of bringing on your youngsters ;) ( but being very careful not to let them extract the urine!)

Watch for signs he is happy and relaxed in the work you are doing with him, then try an additional request for canter ridden, he'll let you know if he's ready by doing it and if not be prepared for kicking out and bucking as he finds it too much.
A handy - very handy tip is to make sure he associates a verbal command into canter as he won't yet understand the accepted ridden aids and don't be tempted to kick on into the canter. I always told Safi to prepare and then Canter. If you say attention to her now she pops straight in and slowly is learning the leg aids for a skip into ito it with less reliance on the verbal cue.

As always - good luck and keep us posted!

[galadriel]

Originally posted by Tootsie4U
I suspect Bon will offer only a few strides of canter. So, should I allow him to canter as much as he is comfortable with, or should I make sure I ask for the down transition?

Probably the best way to do it, if you think he'll only want to canter for a few strides, is to wait for him to look like he's going to break into trot--and ask him to. If you time it right, it looks like it was YOUR idea. But it's also something he wanted to do.

Timing a request such that you coincide with what the horse wanted anyway is one of the best training tricks out there. It also encourages cooperation later, as horse associates your requests with wanting to do what you're asking.

[larri]

Just read your post properly Tootsie....canter isn't necessarily faster. It will be at first because it's easier for the horse, but you can canter a horse in hand if they have the right training;)

[cvb]

what's his "natural" canter like ie out in the field or loose schooling ?

The nice way for it to happen is if he offers it at some stage - that's where hacks can be useful as horses will often offer a bit more eg if they are working up a hill.

If you have a big arena, cantering on the lunge could be more than 20m (if you're fit enough to extend the circle) - and the ground work will help you check his preparedness for the ridden work as well as estbalish the voice command. Useful not only for the upwards transition, but also some voice control brakes !

[Tootsie4U]

voice commands are no problem - on the lunge, in the round pen, or other loose schooling. We both rely heavily on voice commands :D

His canter on the lunge seems ok-better in one direction than the other but I think that asking him on the straightways will be better than in a circle. It will take a leap of faith to ask with all that open space in front of us though :p

As far as his natural canter - I think that he can do all the work. He switches leads like its nothing. I dont recall ever asking for canter on the lunge when he didnt get the correct lead right away. He's talented and he knows it.

I think I'll plan it coming out of the circle in his good direction. Do the aids just for training, but ask with my voice. I think he'll get it.

[Jay.o]

Originally posted by Tootsie4U

Thanks all, Jay O, I thought for sure you were farther along than that - but either way, you're such a good trainer. Mysy is lucky to have you. :)

Well thank you. I forgot to add though, like others have said, it is easier for them, to canter out in a straight line than it is on the lunge. I can canter Mysy out on hacks with or without another horse as a lead, so my job is to transfer that to in to the school.
Good luck, not that'll you need it !

[cvb]

don't forget that even if it seems like you are heading off down that infinite and unending long side of the school - you always have the option to ask for a smooth half circle across the school at any stage to slow things down. ;)

One other thing you might try once you're in canter... When I first got Fi she had a mental block about canter transitions (not entirely mental as her hip was slightly out as well). So to help her get a good tempo and relax a bit, and to help her use her back but without me feeling out of control, I used "rising canter" ie sit one, rise one. It helped her loosen and relax, while we developed her canter and canter transitions.

Its a really good rider exercise and can be quite helpful for the horse too.